Hawks reportedly shopping Smoove

[MaceCase]

Exactly. Horford has shown very little on offense, and people act as if he'll magically turn into a scoring machine if you switch him to the 4. It's just insane.

It puzzles me also because Sund is on record saying that he sees Horf as a center in this league. I'm not sure he'd make a move that would necessarily be to showcase Horf at the 4.

[HawkNJersey]

I just can't believe the ASG would do this...

[Admin]

I don't get why some of you are obsessed with moving Smoove just so Horford can play the 4. We have absolutely no evidence that Horford will be an allstar playing the 4. Hell if that was the case all this time that MArvin was hurt they could have started Zaza and played Horford at the 4 and we would have magically seen 20/10 games. The point is that Smoove is a better 4 than Horford ever will be and the only reason to move Horford to the 4 is that we found a center who is a better center than Horford is and move Smoove to the 3.

But if you think that having a Gortat, Horford, Marvin frontline or a Camby, Marvin, Horford front line will somehow get us in to ECF, you are insane.

The last time I checked Smith wasn't an All-Star at the 4 or even close to it. And the last time I checked a front line of Horford, Smith, and Marvin didn't get us anywhere near the ECF either.

The reason you consider making this move is because Horford plays within himself and he's better than Smith in most categories (as MrH I believe it was showed yesterday) and he doesn't play like he doesn't care or cry to the refs constantly. If the coach/GM/players feel like he is a distraction then you move him. I don't know if that's the case but I could certainly see it being possible. You also move Smith because you know that you are undersized on the front line and if you can use his value to get bigger and more traditional which is something I think both Sund and Woody want then you have to consider it.

But I know that no matter what anyone says that you guys/girls who love Smith so much would never consider trading him even if it could make the team better because for some odd reason Smith has become bigger than the Hawks to you.

[Hatertots]

In a league where Tyson Chandler gets traded from New Orleans... and then stays with New Orleans, it's hard to believe any trade rumor until I see the guy at a press conference holding up a new jersey with different team colors. But, since it's also fun to speculate, why not?

Chad mentioned Portland, NY, Dallas, and Cleveland as teams with owners deep pocketed enough to make this happen. Since we're just speculating, I'm going to speculate that this is a talent-for-talent trade and not a cost cutting maneuver. Since Cleveland only has one intriguing talent (and I don't think he's available) let's cross them off. Dallas: their talent's too old, and their youth doesn't have enough talent.

New York has one player I'd consider moving Smith for (I can already hear keyboards clicking away furious responses questioning my intelligence, Hawks fandom, and possibly my sexual preferences): David Lee. Assuming that Josh had to go, a 26 year old guy who posted 16ppg and 11.7 rpg on 55% shooting is pretty good value in return, especially if you're at all worried about being on the receiving end of an expiring contract poop sandwich like we handed the Kings for Bibby. I hear Lee getting knocked for his defense, but his defense would have to be pretty terrible to negate an efficient 16 and 12.

The homerun swing would be a trade centered around Smith for Portland big man Greg Oden. It's hard to imagine the Blazers letting go of Oden after one season, but it's not impossible given Oden's injury history and his penchant for picking up fouls like they're made of money. Especially when they're getting back a guy who's only two years older than Oden, got to 500 blocks faster than any player in NBA history, and is more athletic than every player except LeBron and Howard. It's a high risk, high reward trade for both teams. Are Oden's knees structurally flawed? Will Josh learn how to play basketball? Can either player realize his vast potential? Is moving Josh a gamble? Absolutely. But since it's not a given that he becomes an All Star PF (let alone a HoF'er) so is keeping him.

The "Ooops, I crapped 'em!" blockbuster dream trade would be Josh and Joe to New Orleans for Chris Paul and Tyson Chandler, giving us one of the bigger front courts and one of the top 3 back court players in the NBA. Spice up the bench with a lil' something (Gortat or Sessions, perhaps the return of J Chill?) and suddenly the East is four contenders deep. Could it happen? If the Hornets were desperate to slash payroll, they could do worse by their fans than renting Joe for a year and picking up Smoove's vast untapped potential, but I'll give New Orleans' front office more credit than that. But, hey, it's the offseason. Let a man dream.

[HawksFan87]

I stop reading when u said that Al is better than Smoove in most categories, even the rest of the Smoove haters know that is a lie ..

[Admin]

In a league where Tyson Chandler gets traded from New Orleans... and then stays with New Orleans, it's hard to believe any trade rumor until I see the guy at a press conference holding up a new jersey with different team colors. But, since it's also fun to speculate, why not?

Chad mentioned Portland, NY, Dallas, and Cleveland as teams with owners deep pocketed enough to make this happen. Since we're just speculating, I'm going to speculate that this is a talent-for-talent trade and not a cost cutting maneuver. Since Cleveland only has one intriguing talent (and I don't think he's available) let's cross them off. Dallas: their talent's too old, and their youth doesn't have enough talent.

New York has one player I'd consider moving Smith for (I can already hear keyboards clicking away furious responses questioning my intelligence, Hawks fandom, and possibly my sexual preferences): David Lee. Assuming that Josh had to go, a 26 year old guy who posted 16ppg and 11.7 rpg on 55% shooting is pretty good value in return, especially if you're at all worried about being on the receiving end of an expiring contract poop sandwich like we handed the Kings for Bibby. I hear Lee getting knocked for his defense, but his defense would have to be pretty terrible to negate an efficient 16 and 12.

The homerun swing would be a trade centered around Smith for Portland big man Greg Oden. It's hard to imagine the Blazers letting go of Oden after one season, but it's not impossible given Oden's injury history and his penchant for picking up fouls like they're made of money. Especially when they're getting back a guy who's only two years older than Oden, got to 500 blocks faster than any player in NBA history, and is more athletic than every player except LeBron and Howard. It's a high risk, high reward trade for both teams. Are Oden's knees structurally flawed? Will Josh learn how to play basketball? Can either player realize his vast potential? Is moving Josh a gamble? Absolutely. But since it's not a given that he becomes an All Star PF (let alone a HoF'er) so is keeping him.

The "Ooops, I crapped 'em!" blockbuster dream trade would be Josh and Joe to New Orleans for Chris Paul and Tyson Chandler, giving us one of the bigger front courts and one of the top 3 back court players in the NBA. Spice up the bench with a lil' something (Gortat or Sessions, perhaps the return of J Chill?) and suddenly the East is four contenders deep. Could it happen? If the Hornets were desperate to slash payroll, they could do worse by their fans than renting Joe for a year and picking up Smoove's vast untapped potential, but I'll give New Orleans' front office more credit than that. But, hey, it's the offseason. Let a man dream.

I enjoyed reading that post and appreciate the options that you put out there but of the one that's probably the most realistic (Lee) I don't think I would do it if I were Sund unless I truly believed that Horford is an NBA 5 and even then I'd need more than Lee in return but he'd be a good starting point and he's one of the most undervalued players in the NBA and someone I could see Sund really liking as well as having great chemistry on our team. Didn't he and Al play together at Florida also? I think that if they could get us Jonny Flynn to go along with Lee that I'd probably do it (again if I really felt that Horford is an NBA 5).

[Admin]

I stop reading when u said that Al is better than Smoove in most categories, even the rest of the Smoove haters know that is a lie ..

What a shock that you stopped reading. But just to help you out here is the info that MrH posted yesterday to back up my "lie".

http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index....st&p=388869

People say that like Smith really contributed that much more than Horford other than help defense.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/tiny.cgi?id=Rbxuq

Smith is better at getting to the line, helpside D, and steals.

Horford is better at shooting/scoring efficiently, offensive rebounds, and defensive rebounds.

They were comparable at passing efficiency, shotblocking, and turnovers. (I will leave man defense out of the discussion because it is such a subjective topic).

As long as you replace Smith's weakside shotblocking, you could actually have a better team. Why? Smith is not a good rebounder, not a smart player, and not an efficient scorer. His ability to get to the line would easily be offset by the fact that Marvin would have his hands on the ball more.

[mrhonline]

^^^Should probably add "finishing on fast break" to Smith's list.

[hawkman]

What a shock that you stopped reading. But just to help you out here is the info that MrH posted yesterday to back up my "lie".

Why bother turning this into a Smoove vs. Horf thing anyway? I think this is just a groundless rumor from Chad Ford that picked up a little steam. I actually thought Horf and Smoove play pretty good together when healthy. Their games almost compliment each other. I see no reason why the ASG or Sund would break that up. Every decision Sund has made so far seems to indicate that he takes his time to evaluate things before making decisions.

[Admin]

Why bother turning this into a Smoove vs. Horf thing anyway? I think this is just a groundless rumor from Chad Ford that picked up a little steam. I actually thought Horf and Smoove play pretty good together when healthy. Their games almost compliment each other. I see no reason why the ASG or Sund would break that up. Every decision Sund has made so far seems to indicate that he takes his time to evaluate things before making decisions.

The purpose? To have a debate of course! I think that whether this rumor is true or not that many of us think (whether correctly or not) that either Horford or Smith will have to go at some point and it's probably a good idea to look at the pros and cons of each of them and see which would be more difficult to replace considering production, leadership, and other intangibles. I do agree that Sund seems to take his time before making decisions but he's had this team a year now and I do expect that one of our "core" guys won't be back next season. That could be Marvin or Bibby but it could easily be Joe, Smith, or Horford instead.

[Sothron]

I stop reading when u said that Al is better than Smoove in most categories, even the rest of the Smoove haters know that is a lie ..

Actually I'd take Horford in a hot minute over Smoove. And its not even close...

[Admin]

^^^Should probably add "finishing on fast break" to Smith's list.

I don't know about that, how many times has he missed an easy dunk because of his small hands? On the other "hand" if Al is on the break and he goes up he's going to be dunking on someone. Smith may be better at leading the break although that's not something I particularly want my 4 or 5 doing.

[Hatertots]

I enjoyed reading that post and appreciate the options that you put out there but of the one that's probably the most realistic (Lee) I don't think I would do it if I were Sund unless I truly believed that Horford is an NBA 5 and even then I'd need more than Lee in return but he'd be a good starting point and he's one of the most undervalued players in the NBA and someone I could see Sund really liking as well as having great chemistry on our team. Didn't he and Al play together at Florida also? I think that if they could get us Jonny Flynn to go along with Lee that I'd probably do it (again if I really felt that Horford is an NBA 5).

Thanks, Dolfan, glad you enjoyed it. I agree that Lee would be the most realistic of those three, but unfortunately,he doesn't add any size down low. It would also be great if the Hawks could arrange a swap of draft positions in the trade as well, although given the supposed weakness of this draft class, I'm not sure how much difference there is between the ninth and 19th selections (other than their price tags). I'd really like to see the Hawks go BPA in the draft and make a run at Ramon Sessions for a PG solution. He's younger than Bibby and should come cheaper and he almost matches Bibby's production but without the 3pt shooting. Plus next year is his 3rd in the NBA, the proverbial "breakout" year for young players, so maybe the Hawks catch a break and pick up a guy who takes his game to the next level in an Atlanta uni.

[Admin]

Thanks, Dolfan, glad you enjoyed it. I agree that Lee would be the most realistic of those three, but unfortunately,he doesn't add any size down low. It would also be great if the Hawks could arrange a swap of draft positions in the trade as well, although given the supposed weakness of this draft class, I'm not sure how much difference there is between the ninth and 19th selections (other than their price tags). I'd really like to see the Hawks go BPA in the draft and make a run at Ramon Sessions for a PG solution. He's younger than Bibby and should come cheaper and he almost matches Bibby's production but without the 3pt shooting. Plus next year is his 3rd in the NBA, the proverbial "breakout" year for young players, so maybe the Hawks catch a break and pick up a guy who takes his game to the next level in an Atlanta uni.

First, good Lord was my reply to you earlier the longest run onnnnn sentence ever? Sorry about that ... and of course I'm a homer being a Syracuse fan but if I could get Jonny Flynn and David Lee for Josh Smith I'd have to seriously consider it.

As for Sessions, I really like him but I think that he's a RFA right? If that's the case then I'd be cautious about trying to sign him since the Bucks could match. I would be concerned about his shooting ability and the role of a PG in our offense needing to be a legitimate threat as a shooter.

[exodus]

Smith is a better scorer than Horford by a mile. Smith can actually create for himself. Horford has shown no ability to do this at all. Even with all of Smiths poor decisions and excessive jump shooting he still shot 49% from the field on the season.

Horford isn't a scorer, period. He gets to the line like the Eddie House of centers. He has no 1 on 1 game to speak off. He can be left wide open from 15 feet and not even look at the basket. He is a liability on offense much moreso than Smith even with Smiths obvious flaws.

[Wurider05]

Smith is a better scorer than Horford by a mile. Smith can actually create for himself. Horford has shown no ability to do this at all. Even with all of Smiths poor decisions and excessive jump shooting he still shot 49% from the field on the season.

Horford isn't a scorer, period. He gets to the line like the Eddie House of centers. He has no 1 on 1 game to speak off. He can be left wide open from 15 feet and not even look at the basket. He is a liability on offense much moreso than Smith even with Smiths obvious flaws.

I don't know about that one man. Smoove is a very big liability on offense due to his bad shot selection and high turnover rate.

[AHF]

Both Horford and Smith would be significantly more effective on offense in another system, IMO.

[HawksFan87]

Actually I'd take Horford in a hot minute over Smoove. And its not even close...

That's your opinion, :), not that it really matters...

[Packfill]

Both Horford and Smith would be significantly more effective on offense in another system, IMO.

Agreed. Smith and Horford with a gifted point guard like Paul or Deron would be magical.

It is mind boggling in many ways that the teams management continues to stick with Woody. Yes they have improved, but someone in the front office or ownership has to realize that there are major flaws in Woody's coaching abilities.

[Sothron]

That's your opinion, :), not that it really matters...

Of course its my opinion but your statement that no one would take Horford over Smoove is equally just an opinion, not a fact as you tried to state it. :hush: