Mark Bradley: Trade Marv for Caron Butler have Flip start at point

[Wurider05]

Once Marvin got hurt our record including the playoffs was 16-14. That run we went on was more in part to JJ finally playing decent basket ball. That is important since he is the 1st option whether he is on or not.

[Diesel]

Once Marvin got hurt our record including the playoffs was 16-14. That run we went on was more in part to JJ finally playing decent basket ball. That is important since he is the 1st option whether he is on or not.

It doesn't matter Wu. I mean, we do expect Joe to be healthy this year right? The point is that without Marvin at all (not even replacing Marvin)... we still were a winning ball club. That's the facts. You can dress it up how ever you wish... the bottom line is that the loss of Marvin didn't have an adverse impact on our W-L column. And I doubt you can find any stat that is subpar when he's gone except maybe FT%.

[Jdawgflow]

A few things. One, I would pay Marvin for what he's bringing to the table. No questions asked.

Two, people on this board are too caught up in PPG. There is more to being a good basketball player than driving the ball to the basket and taking more shots (see everyone's gripes about Josh Smith shooting too much and for a higher percentage).

Three, Marvin is a better defender than Butler...Take the few extra PPG Butler's been scoring and Marvin more than makes up for that in the defensive stops category.

Four, this is pulled directly off the board post cited by MrHonline and covers the intangibles argument. "Over the course of two games, Williams, a guy who typically used 13 possessions in 34 minutes a game, used 50 possessions in 82 minutes of playing time, scored 52 points on those possessions and led Atlanta, without Joe Johnson, to two of the 16 road victories they managed over the course of the season." Without Joe Johnson, Williams asserted himself. Used the pick and roll and created his own shot and led the hawks to 2 of their 16 road victories last year. Aggressiveness is not the only intangible. Being a team player and fitting into the system for the good of the team is an even greater intangible. Something I always tell my youth sports teams is this. "You guys have got to stop doing things your own way. Having 13 guys being allstars but doing things 13 different ways will never win anything. Even if it's the wrong page, it's better that you all get on the same page. That way we'll have our best chance of winning." What you guys are seeing as a lack of aggressiveness, I see as being a true team player. Deferring to the bigger ego's on the team. He did it in college coming off the bench and he's doing it here too. The Hate against Marvin on this board is amazing. All 5 starters can not average 32 points and 15 rebounds a game. Some of them have to play a role to be successful as a team.

Five. If Butler were to come to us, does he become the 2nd option, 3rd option in the offense. How would his production affect the production of everyone else. Would JJ, Josh, Horford's production go down to get Butler his shots. There are no extra possessions created when a new player comes to the team. For Butler to keep scoring 20 ppg, he'll need to take 4 more shots a game than Marvin did. That's 4 less shots a game elsewhere for JJ, Horford, Smith. Getting Butler doesn't create more points, it just redistributes them.

Six. Butler had 3.1 turnovers per game last year. Williams had 1.2. This may seem small, but just remember that number when you say Butler creates his own shot. He also creates 1.9 more for the opponent every game.

I feel that this entire post is worth quoting becuase after reading the entire thread it is most thought out and logical response. There seems to be no major agenda here other than to point out some things others have not stated. Bravo!