A (Statistical) Truth About Mike Bibby

[exodus]

We don't switch strictly based on Bibby's D. I can't tell you how many times Al ended up on the opponents PG and we got burned for it. There is no way we switched to take Bibby, as bad as his D is, off of the PG so that our C could guard him. \

Again you're throwing up a team stat to blame Bibby. In fact, what is that stat for every one of our starters?

Better than Bibby's. Nobody in the rotation had a worse defensive +/- than Bibby and it wasn't close.

[Sothron]

LOL Porter wasn't their coach when they made the WCF not once but TWICE. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

Just because a team plays at a fast pace doesn't mean they are bad defensively. The Suns played at a fast pace and that gave their opponents more opportunities to score. Simple minded people look at the opponents ppg and assume the Suns were bad defensively.

In Nash's first year with the Suns teams shot 44.5% against them, 33.5% from 3. They beat this years Hawks in each category so if the Suns sucked at D what does that say about the Hawks?

Any guy that carries his team to the conference Finals without their leading scorer and with Boris Diaw as the starting center is obviously deserving of the MVP.

Uh...reading comprehension classes again? Your previous post led off by saying the Suns had a higher defensive rating LAST YEAR than the Hawks did. Who was their coach for most of last season? Oh wait, Terry Porter? Hence why I asked what their rating was pre and post Porter? Geez man learn to read sometimes...

[exodus]

Uh...reading comprehension classes again? Your previous post led off by saying the Suns had a higher defensive rating LAST YEAR than the Hawks did. Who was their coach for most of last season? Oh wait, Terry Porter? Hence why I asked what their rating was pre and post Porter? Geez man learn to read sometimes...

LOL @ you telling me to learn how to read. Where in this entire thread have i mentioned this years suns team which didn't even make the playoffs?

In Nash's first year with the Suns teams shot 44.5% against them, 33.5% from 3. They beat this years Hawks in each category so if the Suns sucked at D what does that say about the Hawks?

Their defensive efficiency was better than ours last year. They got to the WCF with Boris Diaw as their starting center. If anything the 05-06 season validated Nash's MVP since they won 54 games and made the WCF without their leading scorer.

Was Boris Diaw their starting center last year? This whole thread i have been talking about the Suns teams that made title runs (so were you) and i compared the defense of those teams to this years Hawks. This is your post that i was replying to.

I thought it was just once they made it? The point still stands that Nash's back to back MVP rings meant nothing because they didn't even make it to the Finals because they played zero defense, Nash especially. He's the worst defensive point guard in the entire NBA and Bibby isn't that far behind.

So i pointed out that their defense (the teams in your post) was better than ours this past season. Don't blame me because you can't remember your own posts.

Edited July 8, 2009 by exodus

[Sothron]

Their defensive efficiency was better than ours last year. They got to the WCF with Boris Diaw as their starting center. If anything the 05-06 season validated Nash's MVP since they won 54 games and made the WCF without their leading scorer.

http://www.nba.com/suns/history/0506_recap.html

There is no way that Nash is as bad as Bibby defensively. When you look at opposing pgs scoring they didnt have field days against Nash like they did against Bibby. I remember specifically Jason Terry going off against Houston and then struggling to score against Nash in the next round. Nash has never been as bad defensively as people seem to believe. The Suns defense hasn't been any better when Nash leaves the court regardless of who has been backing him up.

In contrast the Hawks have given up 6 more ppg consistently since Bibby got here.

Just showing exodus how he does in fact need to learn to read more carefully. Your VERY FIRST SENTENCE said the Suns team LAST YEAR was better in defensive efficiency. Why in the world would I ask you about what it was pre and post Terry Porter being fired otherwise?? Good grief!

:beathorse: :beathorse: :beathorse:

[Admin]

Just showing exodus how he does in fact need to learn to read more carefully. Your VERY FIRST SENTENCE said the Suns team LAST YEAR was better in defensive efficiency. Why in the world would I ask you about what it was pre and post Terry Porter being fired otherwise?? Good grief!

:beathorse: :beathorse: :beathorse:

I can see thinking that he meant their team last year by that sentence but I think he meant the WCF teams since those are the teams that I was referring to earlier in the thread and Exodus was replying from.

[exodus]

Just showing exodus how he does in fact need to learn to read more carefully. Your VERY FIRST SENTENCE said the Suns team LAST YEAR was better in defensive efficiency. Why in the world would I ask you about what it was pre and post Terry Porter being fired otherwise?? Good grief!

:beathorse: :beathorse: :beathorse:

I guess you forgot the post i was replying to. I am not surprised.

I thought it was just once they made it? The point still stands that Nash's back to back MVP rings meant nothing because they didn't even make it to the Finals because they played zero defense, Nash especially. He's the worst defensive point guard in the entire NBA and Bibby isn't that far behind.

I was talking about the Suns playoff teams just like you were.

Duh

I made it very clear more than once that i was talking about the title run teams. In fact i mentioned the 05-06 team in the post you are quoting and you still don't get it. LMAO @ you telling me to read more carefully.

Edited July 8, 2009 by exodus

[Sothron]

I can see thinking that he meant their team last year by that sentence but I think he meant the WCF teams since those are the teams that I was referring to earlier in the thread and Exodus was replying from.

Then he needs to make it more clear. If I said the Falcons were better than last year's Steelers on defense but "really" meant the 1978 (I believe that was the year) Falcons defense that set the NFL record for fewest points allowed in a season then I can't expect the other person to know that.

[exodus]

Then he needs to make it more clear. If I said the Falcons were better than last year's Steelers on defense but "really" meant the 1978 (I believe that was the year) Falcons defense that set the NFL record for fewest points allowed in a season then I can't expect the other person to know that.

I was replying to your post about the Suns playoff teams and i specifically mentioned the 05-06 Suns team in the post you quoted.

Their defensive efficiency was better than ours last year. They got to the WCF with Boris Diaw as their starting center. If anything the 05-06 season validated Nash's MVP since they won 54 games and made the WCF without their leading scorer.

When you mentioned Porter i said he wasn't the coach of their WCF teams.

If that isn't clear enough for you then i suggest Hooked on Phonics.

[Sothron]

I was replying to your post about the Suns playoff teams and i specifically mentioned the 05-06 Suns team in the post you quoted.

When you mentioned Porter i said he wasn't the coach of their WCF teams.

If that isn't clear enough for you then i suggest Hooked on Phonics.

Actually when I mentioned Porter you tossed in a childish insult about "obviously not knowing anything" or something to that effect. If you want to point fingers then you should have realized when I mentioned Porter SEVERAL times I was obviously talking about last year's Suns not the WCF teams. Your other posts just kept denying you were talking about last year's team when it was crystal clear that's precisely who I was talking about.

[coachx]

Again, we do not switch so that Al guards their PG nor do we switch so that Bibby can guard Pierce. We switch because Woody is an idiot.

I disagree. I like when JJ, Marvin, Smoove, and Horford swith b/c they are all versatile enough to defend the perimeter and the post.

We are kind of forced into switching with Bibby. Either we switch or his man blows right by him.........pick your poison............I would rather Bibby let his man blow by him then to see Bibby get switched on a big in the paint.

[exodus]

Actually when I mentioned Porter you tossed in a childish insult about "obviously not knowing anything" or something to that effect. If you want to point fingers then you should have realized when I mentioned Porter SEVERAL times I was obviously talking about last year's Suns not the WCF teams. Your other posts just kept denying you were talking about last year's team when it was crystal clear that's precisely who I was talking about.

Here is what i said when i first mentioned porter.

LOL Porter wasn't their coach when they made the WCF not once but TWICE.

If you couldn't understand i was talking about the past suns teams when i specifically mentioned the 05-06 team in that very post that is just your lack of reading comprehension. Boris Diaw wasn't playing center on the Suns this past season.

I also made another post specifically comparing the 04-05 Suns defense to ours this past season but you obviously couldn't understand that either.

Edited July 8, 2009 by exodus

[Sothron]

Its kind amusing that you want to keep going on and on over what was a poorly worded sentence when another person already said they can see where the miscommunication came from. Its obvious there was a miscommunication of what you wrote versus how it was actually read, pointing fingers about it is beyond infantile and not worth the time to type. I'm not going to argue it any further.

[Dsinner]

Better than Bibby's. Nobody in the rotation had a worse defensive +/- than Bibby and it wasn't close.

So what were they or are you guestimating? I'm not saying I don't believe you but I'd find it interesting since our starters usually play most of the minutes together most of the time to give that large of a descrepancy.

[AHF]

Why don't we get past who read what correctly? That is moot. The quote from exodus' post that was provided by Sothron was vague and it was unclear what the words "last year" was modifying. Other posts by exodus have made it clear that "last year" was modifying the Hawks and that the Suns teams he was addressing were prior ones. Nothing more to see here.

Everyone now understands that exodus is saying that the defensive numbers for the 05-06 and WCF finals teams led by Nash were superior to the 2008-09 Atlanta Hawks defensive numbers. Let's address the significance of that and move on.

[Dsinner]

I disagree. I like when JJ, Marvin, Smoove, and Horford swith b/c they are all versatile enough to defend the perimeter and the post.

We are kind of forced into switching with Bibby. Either we switch or his man blows right by him.........pick your poison............I would rather Bibby let his man blow by him then to see Bibby get switched on a big in the paint.

So you're telling me Al Horford has a better chance of guarding Rondo at the top of the key than Bibby does? Not to mention that may put Bibby on Pierce. Come on man. We switch because Woody is not capable of strategic tweaks. Plain and simple.

Regardless, let's say Woody thinks Bibby's D is so bad that Al should be guarding their PG. Well 4 plays in a row (Spurs anyone?) the PG fakes the drive, gets Al peddling backwards and pulls up and hits the J. Here's a clue Woody...Instead of switching to protect Bibby, why not put either our best defensive PG in the game (Oh golly what an idea) or even our best defensive player.

Either way Woody's switching blows.

[AHF]

So what were they or are you guestimating? I'm not saying I don't believe you but I'd find it interesting since our starters usually play most of the minutes together most of the time to give that large of a descrepancy.

82 games has this listed

Bibby: 6 points worse on defense with Bibby on the floor, 2 points better on offense

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL3.HTM

JJ: 3.6 points worse on defense, 6.5 points better on offense

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL7.HTM

Marvin: 2 points worse on defense, 1 point worse on offense

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL10.HTM

Smoove: .3 points better on defense, 4 points better on offense

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL11.HTM

Horford: 1.5 worse on defense, 1.5 worse on offense

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL12.HTM

* * *

Nash: .7 of a point worse on defense, 8.7 points better on offense

http://www.82games.com/0809/08PHO1.HTM

[HawkNJersey]

Bibby is labeled as a PG because he's the shortest player on the floor.

[exodus]

Its kind amusing that you want to keep going on and on over what was a poorly worded sentence when another person already said they can see where the miscommunication came from. Its obvious there was a miscommunication of what you wrote versus how it was actually read, pointing fingers about it is beyond infantile and not worth the time to type. I'm not going to argue it any further.

I specifically mentioned what year i was talking about in the post you quoted. And lest you forget you were the one that initially brought up reading comprehension so you aren't the one to talk about being infantile.

[exodus]

So what were they or are you guestimating? I'm not saying I don't believe you but I'd find it interesting since our starters usually play most of the minutes together most of the time to give that large of a descrepancy.

Maybe you could try looking them up for yourself.

http://www.82games.com/index.htm

[HawkNJersey]

82 games has this listed

Bibby: 6 points worse on defense with Bibby on the floor, 2 points better on offense

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL3.HTM

JJ: 3.6 points worse on defense, 6.5 points better on offense

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL7.HTM

Marvin: 2 points worse on defense, 1 point worse on offense

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL10.HTM

Smoove: .3 points better on defense, 4 points better on offense

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL11.HTM

Horford: 1.5 worse on defense, 1.5 worse on offense

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL12.HTM

* * *

Nash: .7 of a point worse on defense, 8.7 points better on offense

http://www.82games.com/0809/08PHO1.HTM

Damn..is Smoove our...? Nevermind...