TAKE A BOW BILLY KNIGHT

[Atlantaholic]

Knight is so awesome that every owner is tripping over his shoe-laces trying to hire the man.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Atlantaholic

[NJHAWK]

Knights team was in the lottery year after year after year after year. In fact they picked top 6 year after year after year after year because BK kept blowing his picks and wasting his free agent money on Speedy and Blow Wright.

We were in the lottery for 3 years after Knight blew up Babcocks mess ( Reef, Terry, Rat and Big Hog).

[exodus]

We were in the lottery for 3 years after Knight blew up Babcocks mess ( Reef, Terry, Rat and Big Hog).

2004 Childress

2005 Marvin

2006 Shelden

2007 Horford

That is 4 top 6 picks in 4 years. All we have to show for it is two role players. Nice job.

[TheDude]

What BK had was a really good philosophy (build up from the draft, long athletic players) but poor execution.

[ccarver]

Let's give it three more years before we call drafting Marvin a mistake. He is a talented, hard working team player. His numbers do not indicate what type of player he is. I also can see why everyone wanted Chris Paul, but Billy had a job to do, and had his own timeline to build the team he envisioned. He had a plan and stuck to it. If Sheldon turned out to be Ben Wallace, he could have really been onto something. We all know it has not turned out the right way yet, but we are still on the way. If we had taken Paul, there would be no Horford. What if David Andersen comes over this year, and puts together a great season for us? What if our Atlanta Hawks win 55 games this year and advance to the ECF with all our starters from the Billy Knight era. Let's see what Paul and Williams do the next three years before we pass judgement. I am a firm believer that Marvin can be a 20/8/3 while playing great man on man and team defense. I believe after Joe leaves, this will be Marvin's team.

[exodus]

Your right Flip and Mo in the usa and Chills in Greece was the key all along. Thats why we couldnt win, lol. Even Sund flat out admits last year it was Knights team out there.

Of course that is what Sund is going to say. But the bottom line is that Knight wasn't the GM. That is a fact.

Given how many offseasons BK blew there is no reason to think he wouldn't have blown it again.

[buckeye242424]

Well, Chris Paul was widely regarded as a good PG in college. Marvin Williams was not a starter on his college team. At the time, we already had decent players at Marvin's position. We had nobody at PG. Also, I don't know about you, but I certainly wanted a PG over a SF that year. I didn't care if it was Williams or CP3, but I wanted a PG. Also, using your logic, it sounds as if no GM should ever be held accountable for their draft picks because "they're all a gamble." At what point do you hold a GM accountable for their draft picks? You pay a GM to pick the right players and make the right decisions. If you want to look at everything as a gamble, then you pay a GM to gamble and win - not gamble and lose. Gambling is not for everybody, and Knight wasn't very good at it.

I'm stating that the margin of error is large when drafting. There's some accountability there, sure. But, to call Billy a complete failure based on what he did in the draft isn't fair.

[pimp]

Your right Flip and Mo in the usa and Chills in Greece was the key all along. Thats why we couldnt win, lol. Even Sund flat out admits last year it was Knights team out there.

I Don't thiink would have won anywhere close to 47 games without flip and Mo.

BK would have signed somebody washed up scrubs , like Lo Wright and Matt Freije

[NJHAWK]

2004 Childress

2005 Marvin

2006 Shelden

2007 Horford

That is 4 top 6 picks in 4 years. All we have to show for it is two role players. Nice job.

The Childress pick was from the overpaid underachieving squad Babcock put together. The Marv pick was from waht was left after the explosion that it took for Knight to get rid of that slop.

[KB21]

Billy will never get the credit he deserves for doing a solid job of building this team, just like he gets no credit for building a playoff team in Memphis despite being the GM there for only two seasons. Memphis's run ended not because of Billy Knight, but because Jerry West came in and wrecked everything that Billy built. Unlike the overrated Jerry West, Rick Sund did not come in with preconceived notions about putting his own mark on this team. Instead, he saw he team for what it was. A young team loaded with talented players that needed veteran leadership.

The media will never give Billy the credit he deserves because he was condescending to them. The fans will never give him the credit he deserves because the fans want instant gratification, and because Billy didn't win immediately with what was essentially an expansion team, the fans formed their own opinions about him and never budged.

[NJHAWK]

Of course that is what Sund is going to say. But the bottom line is that Knight wasn't the GM. That is a fact.

Given how many offseasons BK blew there is no reason to think he wouldn't have blown it again.

It was BK's team, the Boston series, last years 47 wins, the Miami series win was all BK's team. Even now as we speak what is Sund doing? He is trying hard to sign all BK's players back ( Bibby, ZaZA, MARV AND CHILLS).

[Atlantaholic]

Unless both Paul and Deron Williams have career ending injuries sometime within the next three years... then you can call drafting Marvin a mistake right now.

The Marvin pick was especially perplexing since we had an ENORMOUS need for a PG, and three SF on our roster... The only way drafting Marvin was justified was because he was SUPPOSED to be the most talented player in the Draft. Not only are the Hawks currently without a longterm solution at PG but you couldn't rank Marvin higher than fifth in his draft... You could rank him as low as eigth.

In any draft if you pick second and the player you pick is arguably not in the top five players picked that draft, I'm pretty sure that is textbook "bust"... This isn't even taking into account how godly Chris Paul has turned out to be.

It doesn't matter how "firmly" you believe Marvin to be a 20/8/3 guy... Considering the type of attention he is getting in FA, professional GM's and scouts don't seem to share that sentiment. The main problem with that theory is that Marvin has not shown that he can be a first option offensively at any point in the last four years... Even Josh Smith, as bad an offensive player as he is at times, has been able to carry us offensively in stretches. Marvin has never averaged more than 18 points in any month he has been a professional, he has never averaged more than 2.7 assists, and he has never averaged more than 7 rebounds. He has been the very definition of a role player.

[exodus]

The Childress pick was from the overpaid underachieving squad Babcock put together. The Marv pick was from waht was left after the explosion that it took for Knight to get rid of that slop.

Every team has their excuses but i don't see you trying to make excuses for other teams. Bottom line is that the Hawks were in the lottery year after year after year after year because BK consistently dropped the ball.

In the summer of '06 BK had something like $20 million worth of cap space, a tradeable free agent (Harrington) and the 5th pick. He came away with Shelden, Speedy and a conditional 1st rounder. He would have been hard pressed to do worse than that.

[exodus]

It was BK's team, the Boston series, last years 47 wins, the Miami series win was all BK's team. Even now as we speak what is Sund doing? He is trying hard to sign all BK's players back ( Bibby, ZaZA, MARV AND CHILLS).

BK was on his couch unemployed and his boy Childress was playing in Greece while the Hawks were winning 47 games.

The Hawks still don't have a long term answer at the point and are still badly undersized on the front line. A team with JJ as it's best player isn't going to be a title contender.

Meanwhile the guys BK passed on (Paul, Deron and Roy) are stars.

[Packfill]

Again. You're falling under hindsight is 20/20. At the time, who's to know those two players would turn out they way they did?

Derron Williams did not even play the point position most of his time in college! Dee Brown did. How did BK KNOW Derron Williams was going to turn out to be the type of PG he has been.

You can say, we passed on a need. Well, that may be true in our eyes. However, it was his choice to draft players of interchangeable parts. If you want to ridicule him for his overall team philosophy, I understand that. But to blast a guy for draft picks is unfair. Unless you're Nostradomus. There's a reason it's called LOTTERY picks. They're all a gamble.

Deron Williams was the point guard at Illinois, not Head or Brown, so you are wrong on that account. Deron was and away the best player on that Illini team when they made their tournament run, and he played in such a manner that it was not hard to see he was destined to be a top point guard in the NBA. The fact that he was the third pick evidences that.

And it should be entirely clear to you at this point that people bash the Marvin pick precisely because of that fact he was another redundant small forward and because of BK's stated goals of building a team with interchangeable parts without clear focus on positions. If the Hawks had not used two first round picks on forwards the prior year, and if the team did not have a desparate need for a point guard, then BK would not receive nearly the criticism that he has. My personal opinion was, and remains, that the need for a quality point guard was such a priority need that the Hawks had to go point guard in the 2005 draft, even if they though Marvin was a slightly better prospect overall. So for that, I give the Marvin pick a fail.

In addition, the Marvin pick would be more defensible if BK had not botched the prior Childress pick and the subsequent Shelden pick.

[Plainview1981]

It was BK's team, the Boston series, last years 47 wins, the Miami series win was all BK's team. Even now as we speak what is Sund doing? He is trying hard to sign all BK's players back ( Bibby, ZaZA, MARV AND CHILLS).

Mami had to play flat out horrible for the Hawks to win that series.

[Sothron]

Yes, thank you Billy Knight for spending three top five picks on a career sixth man, a solid but not spectacular starter instead of a future hall of famer and a guy who will be the LA Sparks' biggest cheerleader once his contract is up. If Billy Knight had done anything right prior to drafting Horford this franchise would be serious contenders in the East, not trying to piece together a contender thanks to a GM who has half an idea of what he's doing.

This. Knight was a horrible drafter and it showed every season.

[buckeye242424]

Deron Williams was the point guard at Illinois, not Head or Brown, so you are wrong on that account. Deron was and away the best player on that Illini team when they made their tournament run, and he played in such a manner that it was not hard to see he was destined to be a top point guard in the NBA. The fact that he was the third pick evidences that.

And it should be entirely clear to you at this point that people bash the Marvin pick precisely because of that fact he was another redundant small forward and because of BK's stated goals of building a team with interchangeable parts without clear focus on positions. If the Hawks had not used two first round picks on forwards the prior year, and if the team did not have a desparate need for a point guard, then BK would not receive nearly the criticism that he has. My personal opinion was, and remains, that the need for a quality point guard was such a priority need that the Hawks had to go point guard in the 2005 draft, even if they though Marvin was a slightly better prospect overall. So for that, I give the Marvin pick a fail.

In addition, the Marvin pick would be more defensible if BK had not botched the prior Childress pick and the subsequent Shelden pick.

Really? News to me.

The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in conjunction with The Hartford Financial Services Group, Inc. (NYSE: HIG) announced today Dee Brown of Illinois is the winner of the 2006 Bob Cousy Award presented by The Hartford, an honor presented annually to the nation's top collegiate point guard. Mr. Brown was honored at a press conference today in Indianapolis, IN, site of the 2006 NCAA Men's Final Four.

[Atlantaholic]

Every team has their excuses but i don't see you trying to make excuses for other teams. Bottom line is that the Hawks were in the lottery year after year after year after year because BK consistently dropped the ball.

In the summer of '06 BK had something like $20 million worth of cap space, a tradeable free agent (Harrington) and the 5th pick. He came away with Shelden, Speedy and a conditional 1st rounder. He would have been hard pressed to do worse than that.

I love how we credit Knight for "getting rid" of our "slop"... Like it's difficult to give away players to other teams for virtually nothing. We traded a 21 ppg scorer for an expiring contract, JT who has been far better than any pg we have had since the trade, for Antoine Walker, who we later traded for scraps, and we traded Shareef who was then averaging 19 - 9 for Rasheed who we later traded for freaking Bob Sura and a pick.

Out of his "amazing" moves the only thing we got out of it that turned into anything good was a 17th first round pick, and a ton of cap-space that we used to sign such stars as... Al harrington, Speedy Claxton, and Lorenzen Wright.

From his seven years as GM, there are basically only three moves BK made that were good: snagging Josh Smith and Horf, and the Joe Johnson trade. People who mention the Bibby trade are insane. We traded Shelden, our FIFTH PICK in the draft for a 30 yo PG... That trade should never have happened because we should have drafted Brandon Roy. The Shelden pick stands as one of the all time worst picks in basketball... Not only was Shelden not projected to be a lottery pick by most experts, but Brandon Roy was the consensus BPA at the time. Those who argue that Brandon Roy played the same position as Joe, ignore that Shelden played the same position as our second best player, Smoove. Not to mention that just the year before BK passed on two studs at a position in need to draft a player that played a position we had already spent a first round pick the year before in. All in all, I don't see how you grade BKs tenure in Atlanta anything above a D+.

[NowYouKnow]

And another thing....The Hawks have nearly reached their peak with the current formation of the roster. Perhaps the Hawks could win north of 50 games next year, but unless they do something drastic (which would be entirely Sund's doing) the Hawks are still going to be a distant fourth place team in the Eastern conference to Cleveland, Boston and Orlando.

Our best player plays his *ss off undoubtedly but is still best suited to the primary supporting piece for a contender, not a go to player. Our second best player has undeniable athleticism, but is too hot headed to play to the best of his abilities. Our third best player is a one dimensional aging point guard. Our other two players are a gifted Forward with a debatable ceiling, but probably will never be a star and a Power Forward playing center who didn't appear to get any better in his second year.

the bench is ok, but it's not going to offset the dysfunction of the starting lineup so the Hawks are what they are. If being a middle of the road Eastern conference team that's barely among the better half of teams in the leagues, then yes, Billy Knight did a fantastic job. For those of us who hoped this franchise might one day amount to something, well Billy Knight was crap. Maybe less so than those before him, but two times zero equals zero.