TAKE A BOW BILLY KNIGHT

[NJHAWK]

Childress going to Greece was a lucky break. The Hawks needed guys who can shoot from the outside and create their own shot. Childress could do neihter. He is just a cherry picker that doesn't play D.

The free agent signing period is only two days old genius. Bibby and Zaza haven't even officially signed yet.

Using your logic why has BK been unemployed for a year? LMAO

Wow you really believe Flip is the difference between a lottery team and a winning team. Trust me on this if Flip Murray could add 10 wins to a team somebody would have made him a Hedo type offer.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Drafting Chill in lottery: C

Drafting Smith: A

JJ trade: A+

Passing on Paul to draft Marvin: D+ . . . progressing to a C

Drafting Salim: C- . . progressing to a D

Drafting Shelden because of need: C . . . progressing to an F

Drafting Solo because of need: C

Bibby trade: A-

Drafting Horford: A

Drafting Law: B . . progressing to a D

Billy Knight overall GM grade: C-

[exodus]

Wow you really believe Flip is the difference between a lottery team and a winning team. Trust me on this if Flip Murray could add 10 wins to a team somebody would have made him a Hedo type offer.

Getting rid of childress added a few wins. Adding Mo's perimeter shooting helped and Flips career season helped big time. All the injuries to our opponents certainly helped.

I never claimed Flip added 10 wins by himself. I guess when you are a BK apologist you have to make up strawman arguments since you can't make any coherent ones.

So why is your boy BK still unemployed?

:laughing5:

[Buzzard]

The Fact that there was a promise made to Shelden's agent (Joe's agent) Seems to make people think worse of the situation. At the time, Shelden was the best big in his draft class (after Aldridge). Hell, he still might be. The thing is that in the NBA, rarely can you trade for a Big. Not a good one.. and we needed a big. Everybody knew it and BK couldn't afford to go Rudy Gay. People always mention Brandon Roy, but Roy snubbed us twice... because his agent was Shelden's agent (JJ's Agent) and he also had a promise from PTL. I think people take promises to strongly. Didn't Blake have a promise? Didn't Hansbrough have a promise? Didn't Jennings have a promise?

Diesel we all know you "loved" Shelden and its the only reason you are making excuses for BK's worse career draft pick.

Marvin...No one had him going lower than 3rd...consensus best upside of anyone in the draft

Horford...real interior post player with talent and upside...no one had him going lower that 5th

Now the reaches

Childress...4 year senior, team player, no one had him going higher than 14th

Shelden...no one had him in the top 10.

Do you see the obvious differences?

Marvin and Horford where both rated very high (EASY PICKS AS IN NO BRAINERS) across the board and were taken over players which is easy to justify for.

No one had Shelden going before Roy or Gay except BK

No one had Childress going before Deng and Iguodala except BK

Roy, Gay, Deng or Iguodala should have been NO BRAINERS for any GM that did his homework.....turns out BK used his brain on Childress and Shelden and there lies the problem. It is one thing to have two players rated close and pick the wrong one...it is a whole nother story to make such obvious mistakes.

Shelden and Childress were obvious bad picks as soon as he made them; no one had them that high! Marvin and Horford were easy good picks for any GM that did his homework.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Buzzard

[AHF]

At the time, Shelden was the best big in his draft class (after Aldridge). Hell, he still might be.

You go Shelden and I will take my chances with Paul Millsap. Heck, I'll take my chances with Craig Smith and Leon Powe.

[Plainview1981]

Sund traded BK's garbage for a 20 ppg scorer, drafted another combo guard and resigned Bibby. We don't need Flip to bail us out now as we did so often this past season.

Without Flip the Hawks easily could have had another losing season.

Remember that game where Dallas was kicking the Hawks teeth in until Flip came in?

[NineOhTheRino]

Sund traded BK's garbage for a 20 ppg scorer, drafted another combo guard and resigned Bibby. We don't need Flip to bail us out now as we did so often this past season.

Without Flip the Hawks easily could have had another losing season.

Don't know how much credit to give Sund for the Crawford trade. Hell I wouldn't even call it a trade; It was more of a gift. The most Sund had to do was pick up the phone. GS didn't want Crawford. Fact is that Larry Riley (or Nelly) valued those expiring contracts more than Crawford. If anything I guess we can give him credit for being at the right place at the right time.

Yeah.... I'd say it's a good thing for Sund he's the GM for Atlanta and not Washington.

[Buzzard]

You go Shelden and I will take my chances with Paul Millsap. Heck, I'll take my chances with Craig Smith and Leon Powe.

Good points...I like Powe as well; decent player coming off the bench. I will not say that about Shelden.

[gsuteke]

So why is your boy BK still unemployed?

I think that's the most damning indictment upon Billy Knight at this point.

[exodus]

Don't know how much credit to give Sund for the Crawford trade. Hell I wouldn't even call it a trade; It was more of a gift. The most Sund had to do was pick up the phone. GS didn't want Crawford. Fact is that Larry Riley (or Nelly) valued those expiring contracts more than Crawford. If anything I guess we can give him credit for being at the right place at the right time.

Yeah.... I'd say it's a good thing for Sund he's the GM for Atlanta and not Washington.

You do understand how trades work right? Given your post i am not so sure. You might as well say the Lakers GM doesn't deserve much credit for the Gasol trade.

[Buzzard]

I think that's the most damning indictment upon Billy Knight at this point.

I agree. He did a great job of breaking us apart, getting us in the lottery, and grabbing some extra picks; but he is not someone you want making the final decisions on draft day.

[Buzzard]

You do understand how trades work right? Given your post i am not so sure. You might as well say the Lakers GM doesn't deserve much credit for the Gasol trade.

Maybe he tweetered instead of called the Memphis GM to get that done. LMAO

[AHF]

Childress...4 year senior, team player, no one had him going higher than 14th

You may be remembering the wrong guy. Chillz played 3 years at Stanford and was predicted higher than 14th in basically every mock.

See e.g.:

#4

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/bask...ft.1/index.html

#9

http://preps.scout.com/2/269725.html

#11

http://www.nbadraft.net/mocks/2004_nba_mock_draft.html

Shelden...no one had him in the top 10.

Do you see the obvious differences?

#5

http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-mock-draft.shtml

#5

http://www.nbadraft.net/mocks/2006_nba_mock_draft.html

With Shelden, that is largely because of the promise, though, IMO. With Childress, it was unknown where he was going before the draft.

[MaceCase]

The Fact that there was a promise made to Shelden's agent (Joe's agent) Seems to make people think worse of the situation. At the time, Shelden was the best big in his draft class (after Aldridge). Hell, he still might be. The thing is that in the NBA, rarely can you trade for a Big. Not a good one.. and we needed a big. Everybody knew it and BK couldn't afford to go Rudy Gay. People always mention Brandon Roy, but Roy snubbed us twice... because his agent was Shelden's agent (JJ's Agent) and he also had a promise from PTL. I think people take promises to strongly. Didn't Blake have a promise? Didn't Hansbrough have a promise? Didn't Jennings have a promise?

Promises are a killer man, they even tear the best of them apart. It's interesting that you bring that up because I just saw this recently and it intrigued me because you rarely hear coaches/GMs admit this stuff. It's off the main topic but stays in line with how promises can hurt you.

[Buzzard]

You may be remembering the wrong guy. Chillz played 3 years at Stanford and was predicted higher than 14th in basically every mock.

See e.g.:

#4

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/bask...ft.1/index.html

#9

http://preps.scout.com/2/269725.html

#11

http://www.nbadraft.net/mocks/2004_nba_mock_draft.html

#5

http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-mock-draft.shtml

#5

http://www.nbadraft.net/mocks/2006_nba_mock_draft.html

With Shelden, that is largely because of the promise, though, IMO. With Childress, it was unknown where he was going before the draft.

I guess it is all about where you go to look: On Childress going 10th behind Deng and Andre

http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/Draft/2004mock.htm

Ford had Shelden ranked 20th overall

http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/draft/...layerId%3d18847

I really dont have time right now to look but am sure I could dig up plenty more from other archives; especially remember one that had Chilz going 14th to Jazz. And yes I was wrong..Chilz only stayed in college three years...my bad

Edited July 9, 2009 by Buzzard

[drzachary]

Drafting Chill in lottery: C

Drafting Smith: A

JJ trade: A+

Passing on Paul to draft Marvin: D+ . . . progressing to a C

Drafting Salim: C- . . progressing to a D

Drafting Shelden because of need: C . . . progressing to an F

Drafting Solo because of need: C

Bibby trade: A-

Drafting Horford: A

Drafting Law: B . . progressing to a D

Billy Knight overall GM grade: C-

Did BK sign Zaza?

[Diesel]

You go Shelden and I will take my chances with Paul Millsap. Heck, I'll take my chances with Craig Smith and Leon Powe.

AT the time, I don't think anybody mentioned SMITH or POWE at 5.

My point is that there's a lot of hindsight in these conversations. Both Powe and Smith were unknowns compared to Shelden.

[Diesel]

Diesel we all know you "loved" Shelden and its the only reason you are making excuses for BK's worse career draft pick.

Marvin...No one had him going lower than 3rd...consensus best upside of anyone in the draft

Horford...real interior post player with talent and upside...no one had him going lower that 5th

Now the reaches

Childress...4 year senior, team player, no one had him going higher than 14th

Shelden...no one had him in the top 10.

Do you see the obvious differences?

Marvin and Horford where both rated very high (EASY PICKS AS IN NO BRAINERS) across the board and were taken over players which is easy to justify for.

No one had Shelden going before Roy or Gay except BK

No one had Childress going before Deng and Iguodala except BK

Roy, Gay, Deng or Iguodala should have been NO BRAINERS for any GM that did his homework.....turns out BK used his brain on Childress and Shelden and there lies the problem. It is one thing to have two players rated close and pick the wrong one...it is a whole nother story to make such obvious mistakes.

Shelden and Childress were obvious bad picks as soon as he made them; no one had them that high! Marvin and Horford were easy good picks for any GM that did his homework.

Another case of hindsight here..

Childress was rated higher than both Deng and Iguodala. Remember Childress led a 27-2 Stanford team. He was the leader. Deng was called "mechanical" and Iguodala was said to be unable to shoot from the free three line.

As far as Shelden, had we not f'd up the Marvin draft, we probably would not have gone after Shelden. Shelden was given a promise:

1. Because he shared an agent with JJ and we owed JJ's agent for what he did to get us JJ>

2. Because the public was tired of BK going after Swingmen/big guards when our obvious needs were PG and C.

C was the only C that fit our bill beyond Aldridge.

[AHF]

I guess it is all about where you go to look: On Childress going 10th behind Deng and Andre

http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/Draft/2004mock.htm

Even the mock you pointed to has Chillz higher than 14th. Childress went as high as #3 in some mocks and the outlier was the single mock you remember having him at #14, assuming that your memory serves. He was generally thought to go around #8-9.

Just saying that claiming that he was predicted to go no higher than 14 is pretty far off the mark.

[drzachary]

Even the mock you pointed to has Chillz higher than 14th. Childress went as high as #3 in some mocks and the outlier was the single mock you remember having him at #14, assuming that your memory serves. He was generally thought to go around #8-9.

Just saying that claiming that he was predicted to go no higher than 14 is pretty far off the mark.

As I recall it, most people considered Deng/Iggy/Childress a tier, with most people rating Childress last in that grouping. Iggy wasn't considered absolutely head and shoulders above Childress.