Al Horford bad on Smoove's rebounding.

[Diesel]

I have been looking at our rebounding and it's interesting... Our rebounding woes may have more to do with Horf's effect on Smith than anything else.

2006-2007:

Smith = 8.6 Rebs per game.

2007-2008:

Smith = 8.2 rebounds per game.... Enter Horf.

2008-2009:

Smith = 7.2 rebounds per game.

I know. I know... Smoove had a high ankle sprain 2008-2009. That's what I thought too... however, that's not the whole story.

Smoove missed 12 games in November. When he came back, this = the rest of the time:

Dec: 7 rebs per.

Jan: 8.25 rebs per. (what happened here? Keep this in mind).

Feb: 5.4 rebs per. (what happened here?)

March: 7.4 rebs per.

April 7.0 rebs per.

What about Horf?

Nov: 8.2 rebs per.

Dec: 9.4 rebs per.

Jan: Missed 12 games here but 8.3 rebs per.

Feb: 9.1 rebs per.

March: 10.2 rebs per.

April: 10.3 rebs per.

Finally, we can't talk about all this without looking at KING Zaza.

Nov: 6.4 rebs per (started 12 games.

Dec: 5.7 rebs per (back to the bench).

Jan: 5.7 rebs per (started 13 games).

Feb: 6.1 rebs per (back to the bench)

March: 5.5 rebs per.

April: 3.8 rebs per (??) played less time.

Here's the thing. When Smoove was not there, Horford's baseline rebs per dropped. Let's call his baseline about 9.5 rebs per game. When Smoove was there, Horf's rebounds were up. I can't really attribute this to Smoove taking his man outside because they give Smoove the outside shot. However, i postulate that Horf gets an increase in offensive rebs because when Smoove takes the off shot... Horf is there to rebound it. And the numbers work well until Feb. IN feb, Horf's baseline dropped for 2.9 OR per game to 2.1 OR per game. There's nothing great or terrible about February except how Horf and Smoove rebounded the ball. Horf offensive boards went down. Smoove's overall boards took a hit. Our Feb schedule looks like this:

Wed 04 @ Minnesota W 94-86

Fri 06 @ Charlotte W 102-97

Sat 07 vs LA Clippers L 97-121 JSmoove = 15 rebs, Horf = 5. Outrebounded 41 to 35.

Tue 10 vs Washington W 111-90

Wed 11 @ Detroit W 99-95

Tue 17 @ LA Lakers L 83-96 JSmoove = 0 rebs, Horf = 7. Outrebounded 67 to 39.

Wed 18 @ Sacramento W 105-100

Fri 20 @ Portland L 98-108 JSmoove = 4 rebs, Horf = 6. Outrebounded 44 to 36.

Mon 23 @ Utah L 89-108 JSmoove = 5 rebs, Horf = 6. Outrebounded 43 to 31.

Wed 25 @ Denver L 109-110 Horf = 11 rebs. Smoove = dnp. Outrebounded 43 to 34.

Fri 27 vs Miami W 91-83

In Feb, our rebounding suffered. May have been Smoove playing hurt? May have been road games against strong rebounding teams? But for whatever reason, this is it.

What about when Horf is out?

When Horf is out, Smoove is a better rebounder. With no help from King Zaza or Marvin, Smoove is left to go in and makeup for the boards that Horf usually gets. Moreover, Smoove gets more quality boards because he don't have to rebound his misses like Horf does.

So can our undersized duo get along?

I think it's a must that we bring in a rebounder if we want to be serious about winning something.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Diesel

[capstone21]

I have been looking at our rebounding and it's interesting... Our rebounding woes may have more to do with Horf's effect on Smith than anything else.

2006-2007:

Smith = 8.6 Rebs per game.

2007-2008:

Smith = 8.2 rebounds per game.... Enter Horf.

2008-2009:

Smith = 7.2 rebounds per game.

I know. I know... Smoove had a high ankle sprain 2008-2009. That's what I thought too... however, that's not the whole story.

Smoove missed 12 games in November. When he came back, this = the rest of the time:

Dec: 7 rebs per.

Jan: 8.25 rebs per. (what happened here? Keep this in mind).

Feb: 5.4 rebs per. (what happened here?)

March: 7.4 rebs per.

April 7.0 rebs per.

What about Horf?

Nov: 8.2 rebs per.

Dec: 9.4 rebs per.

Jan: Missed 12 games here but 8.3 rebs per.

Feb: 9.1 rebs per.

March: 10.2 rebs per.

April: 10.3 rebs per.

Finally, we can't talk about all this without looking at KING Zaza.

Nov: 6.4 rebs per (started 12 games.

Dec: 5.7 rebs per (back to the bench).

Jan: 5.7 rebs per (started 13 games).

Feb: 6.1 rebs per (back to the bench)

March: 5.5 rebs per.

April: 3.8 rebs per (??) played less time.

Here's the thing. When Smoove was not there, Horford's baseline rebs per dropped. Let's call his baseline about 9.5 rebs per game. When Smoove was there, Horf's rebounds were up. I can't really attribute this to Smoove taking his man outside because they give Smoove the outside shot. However, i postulate that Horf gets an increase in offensive rebs because when Smoove takes the off shot... Horf is there to rebound it. And the numbers work well until Feb. IN feb, Horf's baseline dropped for 2.9 OR per game to 2.1 OR per game. There's nothing great or terrible about February except how Horf and Smoove rebounded the ball. Horf offensive boards went down. Smoove's overall boards took a hit. Our Feb schedule looks like this:

Wed 04 @ Minnesota W 94-86

Fri 06 @ Charlotte W 102-97

Sat 07 vs LA Clippers L 97-121 JSmoove = 15 rebs, Horf = 5. Outrebounded 41 to 35.

Tue 10 vs Washington W 111-90

Wed 11 @ Detroit W 99-95

Tue 17 @ LA Lakers L 83-96 JSmoove = 0 rebs, Horf = 7. Outrebounded 67 to 39.

Wed 18 @ Sacramento W 105-100

Fri 20 @ Portland L 98-108 JSmoove = 4 rebs, Horf = 6. Outrebounded 44 to 36.

Mon 23 @ Utah L 89-108 JSmoove = 5 rebs, Horf = 6. Outrebounded 43 to 31.

Wed 25 @ Denver L 109-110 Horf = 11 rebs. Smoove = dnp. Outrebounded 43 to 34.

Fri 27 vs Miami W 91-83

In Feb, our rebounding suffered. May have been Smoove playing hurt? May have been road games against strong rebounding teams? But for whatever reason, this is it.

What about when Horf is out?

When Horf is out, Smoove is a better rebounder. With no help from King Zaza or Marvin, Smoove is left to go in and makeup for the boards that Horf usually gets. Moreover, Smoove gets more quality boards because he don't have to rebound his misses like Horf does.

So can our undersized duo get along?

I think it's a must that we bring in a rebounder if we want to be serious about winning something.

Its about Smith boxing out and giving all out effort. Over the years Smith has been increasingly giving less effort when it comes to rebounds.

[Peoriabird]

I have been looking at our rebounding and it's interesting... Our rebounding woes may have more to do with Marvin's effect on Smith than anything else.

2006-2007:

Smith = 8.6 Rebs per game.

2007-2008:

Smith = 8.2 rebounds per game.... Enter Horf.

2008-2009:

Smith = 7.2 rebounds per game.

Corrected Now this is an appropriate Diesel thread! :thumbsupsmileyanim:

[High5]

"A" for effort, but Smith's inconsistent effort on the glass is the reason he isn't a better rebounder.

[tonegully]

Smoove is not hungry for the boards. Thats how i see it. I wish we could give his body to someone hungry in the league and put him in a dam 6'1 PG body so he can see what we see.

[Diesel]

Its about Smith boxing out and giving all out effort. Over the years Smith has been increasingly giving less effort when it comes to rebounds.

I meant to say in my original post...I'll say now..

I think that the real deal is that with Horf, Smoove is now in the high post and kinda out of position for rebounds. I suppose that Woody does this so that Smoove can run down break away transition buckets and try to block them.. however, I think it limits Smoove offensively. Seeing that Smoove had an off year rebounding and blocking shots, I think it's OK to play Smoove inside more if he's going to be a PF. Until this past year, Smoove hasn't shown the ball handling ability to be a driving PF ala Shawn Kemp/Karl Malone/Larry Nance. However, he's getting more Nancelike with his driving fingerroll. I have talked at length about his supposed fear of contact and I think that got worse with the high ankle sprain. However, Smoove has got to be inside more if he's going to play PF. I think Smoove tried to make himself into a Sf so that he can hang out on the perimeter, but nobody likes that. Woody should have nipped that a long time ago. The problem is that it kills his rebounding.

We do have a problem boxing out, but I think it's more because of our position than ability.

The Hawks should do themselves a favor and hire Horace Grant to be our Big Man's coaching assistant just to teach these guys how to "do the dirty work".

Edited July 25, 2009 by Diesel

[exodus]

I meant to say in my original post...I'll say now..

I think that the real deal is that with Horf, Smoove is now in the high post and kinda out of position for rebounds. I suppose that Woody does this so that Smoove can run down break away transition buckets and try to block them.. however, I think it limits Smoove offensively. Seeing that Smoove had an off year rebounding and blocking shots, I think it's OK to play Smoove inside more if he's going to be a PF. Until this past year, Smoove hasn't shown the ball handling ability to be a driving PF ala Shawn Kemp/Karl Malone/Larry Nance. However, he's getting more Nancelike with his driving fingerroll. I have talked at length about his supposed fear of contact and I think that got worse with the high ankle sprain. However, Smoove has got to be inside more if he's going to play PF. I think Smoove tried to make himself into a Sf so that he can hang out on the perimeter, but nobody likes that. Woody should have nipped that a long time ago. The problem is that it kills his rebounding.

We do have a problem boxing out, but I think it's more because of our position than ability.

The Hawks should do themselves a favor and hire Horace Grant to be our Big Man's coaching assistant just to teach these guys how to "do the dirty work".

Sigh

Smith started off the season with 32 rebounds in his first 3 games. He sucked on the boards after he came back from the injury. Yes Smith is lazy and doesn't box out for rebounds but that has nothing to do with Horford. And enough with this Smith wants to be a 3 nonsense. He posted up regularly this past season. He shoots from long range because he thinks he is a shooter and Woody won't stop him.

[ATLNY7]

How did the hawks get outrebounded 67 to 39, against the lakers?

[Diesel]

Sigh

Smith started off the season with 32 rebounds in his first 3 games. He sucked on the boards after he came back from the injury. Yes Smith is lazy and doesn't box out for rebounds but that has nothing to do with Horford. And enough with this Smith wants to be a 3 nonsense. He posted up regularly this past season. He shoots from long range because he thinks he is a shooter and Woody won't stop him.

Had you cared to even look, you would have noticed that in Jan when Horf went out, Smith's rebounding jumped from 7.0 to 8.3. When Horf came back , Smith's rebounding when from 8.3 to 5.4. To say that his rebounding was all injury based and has nothing to do with Horf is pure ignorance.

[Diesel]

How did the hawks get outrebounded 67 to 39, against the lakers?

That one boggles the mind also. Smoove had no rebounds in about 24 mins. Either he was injured, sulking, out of position, or just overmatched.

[exodus]

Had you cared to even look, you would have noticed that in Jan when Horf went out, Smith's rebounding jumped from 7.0 to 8.3. When Horf came back , Smith's rebounding when from 8.3 to 5.4. To say that his rebounding was all injury based and has nothing to do with Horf is pure ignorance.

Horford started the season with Smith but that didn't stop Smith from getting 32 rebounds in 3 games. Smith doesn't box out and doesn't put out consistent effort on the boards. That is why he doesn't get enough rebounds. This season his injury clearly hurt his rebounding but Smith has never been a good rebounder even when healthy.

It has nothing to do with Horford. Horford isn't Dwight Howard.

[Diesel]

Horford started the season with Smith but that didn't stop Smith from getting 32 rebounds in 3 games. Smith doesn't box out and doesn't put out consistent effort on the boards. That is why he doesn't get enough rebounds. This season his injury clearly hurt his rebounding but Smith has never been a good rebounder even when healthy.

It has nothing to do with Horford. Horford isn't Dwight Howard.

Wow... 3 games... That's a great sample size you have there. I'm talking about at least 14 where Smoove averaged over 8.3 rebs after the injury and then for the rest of the season no above 7.2... but those 3 games... whew...

:dancing18:

[exodus]

Wow... 3 games... That's a great sample size you have there. I'm talking about at least 14 where Smoove averaged over 8.3 rebs after the injury and then for the rest of the season no above 7.2... but those 3 games... whew...

:dancing18:

Smiths rebounding went from 5.4 in February to 7.5 in March, an increase of 2.1 per game. Horford played every game in March. So why the big increase?

Edited July 25, 2009 by exodus

[Diesel]

Smiths rebounding went from 5.4 in February to 7.5 in March, an increase of 2.1 per game. Horford played every game in March. So why the big increase?

Who knows?

I believe that's the original topic I brought up in the first post.... if you had cared to read it?

[AtLaS]

I think Smith's lack of rebounding has a lot to do with Woodson's defensive switching style. Smith often gets caught on the perimeter defensively because he is switched off of his man. Many times this season he was guarding Nash, Paul, Deron, Kidd, etc. I remember one game we were playing a zone and Smith was at the top of the key.

Now, that doesn't excuse his lack of boxing out which he definitely needs to correct. But, his low rebounding number is a bit skewed considering that he is often out of position for a rebound because of a switch.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

All I know, is that in the Laker game, Gasol and Odom totally punked this entire frontline. I believe they jumped all over us in the 2nd qtr when Odom was in the game w/the 2nd unit. As for Smith not getting any rebounds, well . . . when you don't box anybody out and don't play any defense, I think Odom had like 17 rebounds and Gasol had a triple-double.

I think Horford affects Smith's rebounding a little, but with Smith's athletic ability, he should be a 10 rpg guy anyway. But he'd rather try to "perfect" his jumper, than to be a relentless crasher of the boards . . ala what an undersizeed Shawn Marion used to do. Even if Smith is out on the perimeter, he still can crash the boards.

He just doesn't do it like he should. Most of the offensive rebounds the Hawks give up, are almost always because of someone not boxing their man out. And most of the time, it's #5.

Play Smith at the 3, and his rebounds would even be lower, because he won't crash the offensive boards, and properly box out on the defensive end.

If Horford being on the floor hampers Smith's rebounding, then he should stop assuming that Horford will get every rebound.

[DrReality]

Who knows?

I believe that's the original topic I brought up in the first post.... if you had cared to read it?

Since when did you stay on topic???