Josh Smith poll

[MaceCase]

I don't consider that to be posting up if he turns around and faces up as soon as he catches the ball since at that point he's again using his quickness to beat someone off the dribble rather than backing him down and using traditional post moves.

Josh at times recieves the ball in a post up position. The post up position allows a player a position near the post....lol. This can be either low post or high. What you do after you've already created position in the post is up to the player. If its a simple turn to shoot a hook over the opposite shoulder, a turnaround fadeway, a face up jumper, a dribble drive, a dribble right spin move to left, these are all moves done from post position. Limiting the definition of post up to just backing down an opponent with the ball would eliminate such well known post players as Tim Duncan and Amar'e because they utilize a face up game. Joe operates on the perimeter yet both he and Flip continously back down smaller defenders with the ball, this does not make them post players though. So in conclusion a post up or being a post player just means you operate your offense out of and directly around the painted area. Geez I know Smith takes alot of jumpshots but he is stil a PF thats far more effective in the post as evidenced by his inside scoring numbers. I didn't think this thread would be so confusing. I had no idea that people thought of Shaq as the only definition of a post player. :huh:

Edit: But then it figures considering that so many here want Bosh as they think he is a post player lol

Edited July 30, 2009 by CrawfulToCrawesome

[exodus]

The way that I see it a play is a post up play if the player catches the ball with his back to the basket and then backs his guy down, spins on him, gives him some type of fake, etc. in order to score in the post.

What Josh does is catch the ball with his back to the basket, turn around and face up, and then uses his speed and athleticism to get past the player. To me he has the "post up" game of a big guard.

What does position have to do with anything? A guard can post up just like a center can.

By your definition if Shaq catches the ball in the post, gets doubled and passes out for an open 3 then that isn't a post up. If duncan catches the ball in the post, faces up and shoots his patented bank shot that isn't a post up either by your definition. If Rasheed catches the ball in the post and shoots his patented fallaway jumper that isn't a post up by your definition.

Edited July 30, 2009 by exodus

[Admin]

What does position have to do with anything? A guard can post up just like a center can.

By your definition if Shaq catches the ball in the post, gets doubled and passes out for an open 3 then that isn't a post up. If duncan catches the ball in the post, faces up and shoots his patented bank shot that isn't a post up either by your definition. If Rasheed catches the ball in the post and shoots his patented fallaway jumper that isn't a post up by your definition.

I only mention position because a guard "posts up" differently than a big does. If you're going to say that he posts up then it should also be mentioned that he doesn't post up like a big does.

If all you're concerned about with this poll is whether or not Josh Smith ever gets into post position then yeah he does but I don't see why that is important as far as winning games is concerned. If/when the day comes when Josh Smith can pull off the Duncan bank shot or the Rasheed fallaway then I'll be happy to say that Josh Smith is a post up player but until then I don't want to get into one of these long drawn out arguments over semantics so I'll just re-iterate that I don't feel like Josh Smith is a post up player. He will occasionally make a post-up move but that doesn't make him a post up player.

[exodus]

I only mention position because a guard "posts up" differently than a big does. If you're going to say that he posts up then it should also be mentioned that he doesn't post up like a big does.

If all you're concerned about with this poll is whether or not Josh Smith ever gets into post position then yeah he does but I don't see why that is important as far as winning games is concerned. If/when the day comes when Josh Smith can pull off the Duncan bank shot or the Rasheed fallaway then I'll be happy to say that Josh Smith is a post up player but until then I don't want to get into one of these long drawn out arguments over semantics so I'll just re-iterate that I don't feel like Josh Smith is a post up player. He will occasionally make a post-up move but that doesn't make him a post up player.

I think you need to read the poll question again.

[Admin]

I think you need to read the poll question again.

Okay then by your rationale then Josh Smith is also a half court shooter since every once in a while he takes shots from there (end of quarter/half).

If all you need is 1 example to prove that Josh Smith posts up then thread thread/poll is useless. I doubt there is a player in the NBA that hasn't been in the post up position at least 1 time in their career.

[exodus]

Okay then by your rationale then Josh Smith is also a half court shooter since every once in a while he takes shots from there (end of quarter/half).

Even in this case you would be wrong.

I wasn't asking if Smith was a "post player". I wasn't asking if his post moves were good or bad. I wasn't asking if he posted up like a guard or a big man.

If i took a poll asking if Smith was a "3 pt shooter" then i think it is safe to assume most people would vote no. Saying someone is a three point shooter conveys a meaning that they have some skill at shooting 3s. But if i ask whether or not Smith shoots 3s every answer should be yes. He didn't do it very often and isn't good at it but he did shoot them.

I though the question was pretty straightforward.

Edited July 30, 2009 by exodus

[Admin]

Even in this case you would be wrong.

I wasn't asking if Smith was a "post player". I wasn't asking if his post moves were good or bad. I wasn't asking if he posted up like a guard or a big man.

If i took a poll asking if Smith was a "3 pt shooter" then i think it is safe to assume most people would vote no. Saying someone is a three point shooter conveys a meaning that they have some skill at shooting 3s. But if i ask whether or not Smith shoots 3s every answer should be yes. He didn't do it very often and isn't good at it but he did shoot them.

I though the question was pretty straightforward. pointless.

Corrected

[exodus]

Corrected

Since you obviously didn't read, or already forgot, the initial post allow me to repeat it. Diesel said point blank that Smith didn't post up. His statement wasn't remotely ambiguous and neither was my initial post.

But leave it to you to misundstand it. You can't even make up your mind what a post up is.

[Admin]

Since you obviously didn't read, or already forgot, the initial post allow me to repeat it. Diesel said point blank that Smith didn't post up. His statement wasn't remotely ambiguous and neither was my initial post.

But leave it to you to misundstand it. You can't even make up your mind what a post up is.

You mean there's a chance I missed a sentence in the hundreds of posts that you and Diesel have recently exchanged throughout multiple threads? How is that possible?

And if Diesel said that Smith didn't post up I'd bet that you took what he meant the wrong way since most, if not all, players in the NBA have posted up before and Diesel knows that as well as anyone does.

I explained quite clearly what I think a post up player does. But let me guess that doesn't matter, the only thing that matters here is the "post up" even though there is no such thing without the player.

[DrReality]

It certainly is an area that he could expand his game. And then even kick back out to some of the guys at the three point line. He tends to be quicker than most fo the guys he goes up against and he should use that. Not to mention his ability to jump.

[exodus]

You mean there's a chance I missed a sentence in the hundreds of posts that you and Diesel have recently exchanged throughout multiple threads? How is that possible?

And if Diesel said that Smith didn't post up I'd bet that you took what he meant the wrong way since most, if not all, players in the NBA have posted up before and Diesel knows that as well as anyone does.

I explained quite clearly what I think a post up player does. But let me guess that doesn't matter, the only thing that matters here is the "post up" even though there is no such thing without the player.

No you didn't. When i said a post up is when a player catches the ball in the post with his back to the basket in post position you agreed. Then you later tried to qualify whether or not a move is a post up based on the position and skill of the player and the move they make. Sorry but that doesn't fly. A post up is a post up just like a foul shot is a foul shot.

By the second definition you gave if a guy catches in the post but shoots without dribbling or passes without dribbling then it isn't a post up. That is ridiculous.

Edited July 30, 2009 by exodus

[TheNorthCydeRises]

When I think of Smith posting up, I see him catching the ball with his back to the basket . . . .but he's 15 feet away from the basket when he gets the ball. (i.e. - he's in the high post position ). He's not at the desired 10 feet and in, like most true low post players.

Once he gets the ball in that area, that's when he turns and faces-up his man, to take him off the dribble . . or shoot the flat-footed jumper.

He hardly ever catches the ball down on the low block ( ala a Boozer or an Elton Brand )

If I were to compare Smith's "post-up" to Horford's "post-up", I'd have to vore that Smith doesn't truly "post-up".

[Deeman]

I have seen Smith post up plenty of times, especially against the Cavs in the playoffs.

[Admin]

No you didn't. When i said a post up is when a player catches the ball in the post with his back to the basket in post position you agreed. Then you later tried to qualify whether or not a move is a post up based on the position and skill of the player. Sorry but that doesn't fly. A post up is a post up just like a foul shot is a foul shot.

All I said in regard to a players position is that Josh Smith posts up like a guard. Here is my "explanation that you asked for early in the thread"

The way that I see it a play is a post up play if the player catches the ball with his back to the basket and then backs his guy down, spins on him, gives him some type of fake, etc. in order to score in the post.

What Josh does is catch the ball with his back to the basket, turn around and face up, and then uses his speed and athleticism to get past the player. To me he has the "post up" game of a big guard.

[Peoriabird]

I only mention position because a guard "posts up" differently than a big does. If you're going to say that he posts up then it should also be mentioned that he doesn't post up like a big does.

If all you're concerned about with this poll is whether or not Josh Smith ever gets into post position then yeah he does but I don't see why that is important as far as winning games is concerned. If/when the day comes when Josh Smith can pull off the Duncan bank shot or the Rasheed fallaway then I'll be happy to say that Josh Smith is a post up player but until then I don't want to get into one of these long drawn out arguments over semantics so I'll just re-iterate that I don't feel like Josh Smith is a post up player. He will occasionally make a post-up move but that doesn't make him a post up player.

You guys need to rewatch the Miami series. Yeah, Smoove shot a lot of crazy jumpers but he was killing with that up and under move against Joel Anthony.

[Admin]

When I think of Smith posting up, I see him catching the ball with his back to the basket . . . .but he's 15 feet away from the basket when he gets the ball. (i.e. - he's in the high post position ). He's not at the desired 10 feet and in, like most true low post players.

Once he gets the ball in that area, that's when he turns and faces-up his man, to take him off the dribble . . or shoot the flat-footed jumper.

He hardly ever catches the ball down on the low block ( ala a Boozer or an Elton Brand )

If I were to compare Smith's "post-up" to Horford's "post-up", I'd have to vore that Smith doesn't truly "post-up".

Now now don't qualify what posting up is. If Josh Smith has his back to the basket from 40' out then he's posting up. There is no other way of looking at it.

[exodus]

When I think of Smith posting up, I see him catching the ball with his back to the basket . . . .but he's 15 feet away from the basket when he gets the ball. (i.e. - he's in the high post position ). He's not at the desired 10 feet and in, like most true low post players.

Once he gets the ball in that area, that's when he turns and faces-up his man, to take him off the dribble . . or shoot the flat-footed jumper.

He hardly ever catches the ball down on the low block ( ala a Boozer or an Elton Brand )

If I were to compare Smith's "post-up" to Horford's "post-up", I'd have to vore that Smith doesn't truly "post-up".

You've got it backwards. Smith's post game > Horfords. Horford is a joke in the post. All he does is bounce off his defender a couple of times because he can't back him down then he throws up and off balance jump hook or fadeaway. That's it.

Funny that you bring up Boozer and Brand because both are face up players.

[Admin]

You guys need to rewatch the Miami series. Yeah, Smoove shot a lot of crazy jumpers but he was killing with that up and under move against Joel Anthony.

I didn't say that he NEVER makes traditional post moves, just that it's rare for him. And I certainly think he's capable of doing them more often and I hope he does so next year.

[exodus]

All I said in regard to a players position is that Josh Smith posts up like a guard. Here is my "explanation that you asked for early in the thread"

And by this definition

The way that I see it a play is a post up play if the player catches the ball with his back to the basket and then backs his guy down, spins on him, gives him some type of fake, etc. in order to score in the post.

If i a guy catches in the post and shoots without dribbling it isn't a post move.

Funny that you mentioned spin moves since that would be using quickness which shouldn't count according to you.

What Josh does is catch the ball with his back to the basket, turn around and face up, and then uses his speed and athleticism to get past the player

[Peoriabird]

I didn't say that he NEVER makes traditional post moves, just that it's rare for him. And I certainly think he's capable of doing them more often and I hope he does so next year.

Rewatch the series! About 1/3 of his points can out of the post with exception of the 1st game.