Flipper?

[Swatguy]

Why do we need another scoring guard who does not play good defense off the bench? Especially when we do not have any backup bigs and we have already have a high scoring non defensive guard already coming off the bench.

Signing Flip and going with Silar and Othello just does not make sense. Flip for his own good needs to go to a place where he can get a lot of PT. Philly is the perfect destitnation for him. They have a hole at guard that needs to be filled.

Here his minutes will go down a lot. Once we traded for Crawford...Flip became unnecessary. We don't need him and Crawford both coming in and jacking up shots. Actually if we sign another guard it would be better to have a distributor / defensive point guard like Brevin Knight.

We need backup bigs. Good backup bigs (Silar and Othello don't cut it as they are not ready to contribute). We have Zaza and that is it. The focus needs to be on Joe Smith and not Flip. Flip did a great job for us last year. I wanted him back until we traded for Crawford. Now it is unneccesary as his role on the team has been filled.

Getting Joe Smith would be very good. I mention Silar and Othello because they are in reach. We have 10 bodies and 4 will be signed. We will not sign two or three Joe Smith's.

Othello and Silar are the best coming out of the recent camp (really the only) to chance making the team. What bigs are now attainable?

...

...

...

not many.

Not getting Flip will not change no Bigs available.

[capstone21]

Getting Joe Smith would be very good. I mention Silar and Othello because they are in reach. We have 10 bodies and 4 will be signed. We will not sign two or three Joe Smith's.

Othello and Silar are the best coming out of the recent camp (really the only) to chance making the team. What bigs are now attainable?

...

...

...

not many.

Not getting Flip will not change no Bigs available.

it will because we are tying up money on him.

[Swatguy]

That is not going to work for Flip for one thing. After having such a solid year with solid minutes, why is he going to sign on to play 12 minutes a game with us when he can sign somewhere else for much bigger minutes and a much bigger role.

Plus Bibby is going to play a lot more then 24 minutes.

I am not saying Flip is not a good player. I loved what he did for us. He just does fit here anymore.

I understand what Jamal is going to bring(a lot, maybe as much as Joe), but injuries happen and a deep bench is desired. Having 'Rio ready on the bench is not deep. Flip may have decided another way and the debate is pointless. My point is, if he still entertains a slot here, we should think very serious about it.

[Swatguy]

it will because we are tying up money on him.

OK

Cap, outside of Joe Smith who is on the radar?

[Traceman]

With limited money we have to focus on up front depth more then spending it on Flip. He is not a good pg either, he is a scorer. If Teague is not ready a three guard rotation of Bibby, Crawford and Joe is pretty good . All three can and have played both guard positions

Flip is not a true PG by any stretch but he more than adequately played PG alongside JJ last year. I would think he could do the same thing alongside Crawford as well. At any rate, I'd rather have Flip than a so-called true PG like Jacque Vaughn or another lesser player because we do have guys like JJ and Crawford who don't have to have a true PG beside them.

I think that JJ, Bibby and Crawford are going to get the majority of minutes at guard assuming they all remain healthy but injuries are a big part of the game. I'd like to see a vet that can actually play back there somewhere in the top 12.

Al/Zaza/Morris

Smoove

Marv/Mo

JJ/Crawford

Bibby/Teague

In my opinion, we need a vet PF/C and a vet who can play PG to fill out the active roster at a minimum. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see Morris not on the active roster and to add a 2nd vet big man.

[capstone21]

OK

Cap, outside of Joe Smith who is on the radar?

So we spend the money on Flip. We are very redundant on guards position. We go into the season with Othello and Silar as our backup PFs. That is just trouble.

I will agree the well has dried up a bit in the big department. Joe is the one I have always wanted and is still possible. With him or Flip it will be one or the other because there is no money for both. Outside of Joe I would break it up with 1 year deals among a combo of Robert Swift, Petro and/or Stro Swift. No they are not as good as Flip but they provide a role this team needs. Flip does not provide a role we need.

[Traceman]

So we spend the money on Flip. We are very redundant on guards position. We go into the season with Othello and Silar as our backup PFs. That is just trouble.

I will agree the well has dried up a bit in the big department. Joe is the one I have always wanted and is still possible. With him or Flip it will be one or the other because there is no money for both. Outside of Joe I would break it up with 1 year deals among a combo of Robert Swift, Petro and/or Stro Swift. No they are not as good as Flip but they provide a role this team needs. Flip does not provide a role we need.

If we sign Smith, I don't see Flip coming back unless he agrees to accept the vet minimum. You would THINK he would be able to get a multi-year deal from someone above the vet minimum but he hasn't signed yet so maybe not. We shall see.

[AHF]

Flip has never had a playoff eFG% above 40% in his career, benhillboy.

That is why I don't buy the idea that Flip is a valuable playoff contributor. Scoring is what Flip does and he doesn't do it particularly well in the playoffs (or most regular seasons).

[Swatguy]

That is why I don't buy the idea that Flip is a valuable playoff contributor. Scoring is what Flip does and he doesn't do it particularly well in the playoffs (or most regular seasons).

Flip outplayed Joe in the playoffs, remember?

[AHF]

Flip outplayed Joe in the playoffs, remember?

No, I don't. JJ was the more important defender and outproduced Flip offensively despite putting up career lows in the 2008-09 playoffs while Flip put up career high #s.

Flip .467 TS%, 11.8 point, 2.7 rebounds, 2.5 assists

JJ .479 TS%, 16.4 points, 4.7 rebounds, 3.5 assists

The 3-year averages for these two players in the playoffs is a domination for JJ compared to what we saw with the edge for JJ in last year's playoffs. Add in the D and I'll take JJ 2008-09 playoffs over Flip 2008-09 playoffs for sure.

[terrellgroup]

Joe Smith is a waste of a year and a waste at the PF position. Because we wasted time not getting Warwick or Wilcox, sign Giler,Ellis and Othello and deal with it. Must importantly SIGN FLIP, what team does not have 3 point guards? Flip can run 1 or 2. Teague and Flip would share minutes. Besides, everyone knows Woodson can't coach no rookie.

[AHF]

We have the following guys who can run the point as well as Flip or better:

Bibby

Crawford

JJ

We also have Teague who I would bet is at least as good a playmaker as Flip. I don't see depth at the PG position as nearly as big an issue as depth in our frontcourt.

[Swatguy]

No, I don't. JJ was the more important defender and outproduced Flip offensively despite putting up career lows in the 2008-09 playoffs while Flip put up career high #s.

Flip .467 TS%, 11.8 point, 2.7 rebounds, 2.5 assists

JJ .479 TS%, 16.4 points, 4.7 rebounds, 3.5 assists

The 3-year averages for these two players in the playoffs is a domination for JJ compared to what we saw with the edge for JJ in last year's playoffs. Add in the D and I'll take JJ 2008-09 playoffs over Flip 2008-09 playoffs for sure.

When your stud All-Star best player averages 16 points a game, and your bench guy averages 12, who had the better game? Flip.

Joe's playoff was a disappointment. He played very average, not a difference maker.

Flip had a better playoff. Stats are only the start of it. That team NEEDED a lot more than what Joe produced.

Flip didn't Shrink, Joe did.

[Traceman]

We have the following guys who can run the point as well as Flip or better:

Bibby

Crawford

JJ

We also have Teague who I would bet is at least as good a playmaker as Flip. I don't see depth at the PG position as nearly as big an issue as depth in our frontcourt.

You need someone who can DEFEND the PG postion well at times too though and I'm not sure any of those guys qualify. If we can't get Flip, I think we at least need a Jason Hart type on the end of the bench.

[MaceCase]

When your stud All-Star best player averages 16 points a game, and your bench guy averages 12, who had the better game? Flip.

Joe's playoff was a disappointment. He played very average, not a difference maker.

Flip had a better playoff. Stats are only the start of it. That team NEEDED a lot more than what Joe produced.

Flip didn't Shrink, Joe did.

Laughable. So the allstar player that the entire defense is geared to stop "dissapoints" but the backup whom no one is paying attention to still manages to shoot worse and score less while playing more minutes in the playoffs than he did in the reg. season is considered not shrinking?

[thecampster]

Trust me, Flip is better.

Ah no....flip is not better.

Crawford is a better passer, better scorer and longer defender. Crawford is younger. Flip has a cooler first name.

If you want the glue...the player that makes it happen it is Josh Smith. I can't wait to get bashed for this.

Smith missed 13 games last year. In those 13 games the Hawks had a losing record. 6-7. .461 winning percentage.

in the 9 games after injury when he came back too early they were 5-4. Basically with Smith injured the Hawks were 11-11.

With Smith healthy or mosly healthy and even with other people out of the lineup, the team was 36-24. .600 winning percentage.

We saw in the playoffs this last year that as goes Josh, so went the Hawks. If Josh had a good game, the Hawks did well if he struggled so did the team.

I am very excited this season for a few reasons. JJ was injured the entire second half. Josh was hobbled and didn't have his normal ups most of the year. Health and gameflow is much more important for this team right now that adding another player. These are 2 very talented players. Coaching is going to be the most important thing to the Hawks next year. Can the coaching staff get JJ and Josh to find a better way to play with and off each other and to get their team mates involved.

[Swatguy]

Laughable. So the allstar player that the entire defense is geared to stop "dissapoints" but the backup whom no one is paying attention to still manages to shoot worse and score less while playing more minutes in the playoffs than he did in the reg. season is considered not shrinking?

AllStar!!?! All Star ? DWade is an AllStar, LeBron is an All Star. What complaints are due to an All Star because they are defended? Are you kidding? Joe Straight Under-Performed.

You got blinders on.

[AHF]

AllStar!!?! All Star ? DWade is an AllStar, LeBron is an All Star. What complaints are due to an All Star because they are defended? Are you kidding? Joe Straight Under-Performed.

You got blinders on.

Joe had a terrible post-season for him and still was substantially better than Flip who is little more than an inefficient chucker every post-season of his life.

If the question is played better last postseason it is a no-brainer that JJ > Flip.

If the question is that measuring JJ as an All-Star and Flip as a 6th man, which of the two dissappointed the most last postseason? Then the answer is JJ because his injury issues and poor shooting led to a performance that was much farther below his regular season performance than Flip's subpar showing in the playoffs.

[MaceCase]

AllStar!!?! All Star ? DWade is an AllStar, LeBron is an All Star. What complaints are due to an All Star because they are defended? Are you kidding? Joe Straight Under-Performed.

You got blinders on.

Again, so Joe underperformed yet Flip didn't?

[joeschmoe]

Okay, we got our bigs. Now it's time to sign Flip.