Smoove back to his dumb self :(

[JackB1]

I really think it is a confidence issue with Smoove. When he sees a player with the wing span and quickness of Odom, his only thought is shoot over him. When he figures out how to draw a foul without turning the ball over on a consistent basis he will be dangerous night in and night out.

Most nights he does this; which tells me the ability is there, he just needs to trust himself.

Wouldn't he have more confidence in the things he does well? How can someone with THE WORST JUMP SHOT % IN THE NBA have confidence in his outside shot?

Sorry, but your logic makes no sense. When he plays on the inside and above the rim, few can keep up with him. That is where his confidence should lie.

[bonethugz]

Yea I was getting really annoyed with him last night. Although I do agree with him that alot of fouls were going the Lakers way he should not be shooting 20 footers. He can't take long-distance shots a foot in front of the 3 pt line. He keep trying to drain that shot but has hit it maybe 20% of the time. Drive the lane and put up a dunk.

don't get mad with the refs, get mad with the rim, if he got something to complain about. once again, something has to do with coaching here we got. if he's jacking up $hit bench the guy. if he keeps complain about the refs. tell him either shut up or do something.

[Wretch]

He definitely reverted last night. The first couple of long range shots I cringed and thought he just had a lapse. As the game went on, I found myself slapping my forehead. It really doesn't matter if it's a 3 ball or a long 2. For me, the problem isn't with him taking the long shot. The problem is that he takes these shots when there are MUCH better options available. He doesn't try to back the ball in, he doesn't swing it, not a driving hook...hell I'd even take that shaky off the dribble game (well, not really). Instead, he just faces, his man gives him room and "clank." LoL, it's playground ball really. You're guarding that one guy that "knows" he can hit it from anywhere and you dare him to shoot it. Everytime....sigh.

This goes hand in hand with his decision making. Not only is he taking these ill advised shots, but how many times does he have to fumble the ball or have it taken from him for Josh to realize that he needs to give the damn ball up!?!? Give it up on the break, find a guard. Stop trying to take people off the dribble right into traffic. Just give the rock up or back your man down. The latter being an option given that there are all of about 10 guys in the league that can jump with him...

[Buzzard]

Wouldn't he have more confidence in the things he does well? How can someone with THE WORST JUMP SHOT % IN THE NBA have confidence in his outside shot?

Sorry, but your logic makes no sense. When he plays on the inside and above the rim, few can keep up with him. That is where his confidence should lie.

Not talking about just posting him up and fast break points. Talking about him getting the ball 20 to 22 ft out and instead of driving closer to the hole...he shoots a jumper. Its the easy way out for sure; but if he lacks confidence in getting past good players, I think he sees it as his only way out.

Josh chucked a lot of long jumpers, someone said 4 in just the 1st quarter. He also had a lot of turnovers. To me they go hand in hand with his confidence to get past and through a sound defensive team. Odom does not get enough credit for being a very good defender. As long as he is not out muscled, he can hold his own with just about anyone.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Buzzard

[DrReality]

So much for teaching BB IQ

[thecampster]

Wouldn't he have more confidence in the things he does well? How can someone with THE WORST JUMP SHOT % IN THE NBA have confidence in his outside shot?

Sorry, but your logic makes no sense. When he plays on the inside and above the rim, few can keep up with him. That is where his confidence should lie.

Player - FG% (year stat) Shots taken

Evans-----61.5 ----------------------13

Josh-------58.1-----------------------31

Horford----50.0-----------------------36

Bibby-------46.2-----------------------26

Teague----44.4-----------------------18

Joe Smith-43.8----------------------16

JJ------------43.4----------------------53

Crawford --42.9----------------------28

Zaza--------41.7-----------------------12

Marvin-------33.3----------------------21

I think you need to pick a different target. The numbers don't bare your argument. Horford and Smith are carrying your team.

Rebounding - Horford - (37), Josh (16), Marvin (15), Johnson (14)

Assists - Josh (17), Johnson (16), Bibby (15)

Steals - Josh (7), Johnson (5), Bibby (5)

Blocks - Horford (8), Josh (5), Williams (2)

3 pt attempts - Johnson (13), Bibby (13), Crawford (10), Williams (7)...........Josh (0)

[MaceCase]

Josh is averaging 2.7 attempts per game from between 16-23 feet and hitting them to the tune of 13%. He takes 6.9 shots "at the rim" and hits them to the tune of 79%. Which of these types of shots should he be attempting during a game? Which of these type of shots did we see the most of in the last game?

http://hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx

Yet another stat site I will contribute to the Squawk.

Edited November 3, 2009 by CrawfulToCrawesome

[thecampster]

Josh is averaging 2.7 attempts per game from between 16-23 feet and hitting them to the tune of 13%. He takes 6.9 shots "at the rim" and hits them to the tune of 79%. Which of these types of shots should he be attempting during a game? Which of these type of shots did we see the most of in the last game?

http://hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx

Yet another stat site I will contribute to the Squawk.

Nope I totally get the idea that 2.7 attempts is 2.7 attempts too many. I'm onboard with the concept.

My arguments is simple.....He's shooting a total of 58% from the floor, hitting just under 70% of his free throws, getting 5.3 assists, 5.3 boards, 1.67 blocks, 2.3 steals. He's only taking 10.3 shots a game but averaging 15ppg.

My argument is that we have bigger issues than 2.7 categorized shots per game of which he makes .4. Making 1.4 would be consider good enough to stay out there. What you are arguing is 1 missed opportunity a game.

Now take a look at how many times a game JJ tries to do it all himself and turns the ball over in the lane or how many times we have Zaza handling the ball at mid court.....I saw him dribbling up the floor in that Laker explosion and I went "WTF". Our discipline issues go way beyond Josh missing 1 too many shots outside of 16 feet a game.

If I had to say who is the only Hawk that gets it right now, I'd say it was Al Horford. But to complain about Josh seems to be throwing stones in the wrong direction. he is 1st or 2nd in the 6 key categories of ppg, reb, FG%, *ss, stl, blocks.

Joe Johnson is scoring 7 points more a game than Josh Smith but he's taking 7.3 more shots a game.

This team needs to be built around Horford, Smith and if he'd get his head out of his butt, Marvin and we need to stop feeding the guards an overabundance of shots. We will never take the next step as long as Joe Johnson is treated like a superstar. Joe is leaving next year fellas. Time to start looking for a more team oriented replacement.

Can someone get me a team per or effeciency rating please?

[thecampster]

Can someone get me a team per or effeciency rating please?

Got it...took a minute.

Team PER stat for this season by rank.

Josh ---- 22.41

JJ - -------21.70

Evans -- 20.01

Teague 18.84

Horford - 17.41

Bibby - ---16.61

Joe Smith - 14.55

Crawford - 13.92

Marvin -----11.33

Pachulia----7.76

That is offensive PER so far this year or positive effect on a game from an offensive standpoint. The league average is 12.58

Kobe -- 28.72

D.Wade 25.73

Lebron - 27.57

Granger - 20.72

B Roy ----25.93

Josh's stats come in ahead of Granger and behind Roy, kobe, wade and James and the whole time not being an offensive focus.

Even being the focus, Joe's PER has been sub par.

you might think these numbers are skewed by the 3 game sample. Last year's per for Joe Johnson was 18.23, Josh's was 17.24....very close.

the year before, Josh was a 19.03 and JJ was 17.26.

Volumn scoring does not mean efficiency. We complain about the extra 2.7 shots a game we don't like and forget to see how much lower a percentage Joe shoots, and the different places he doesn't have a positive affect on the game. Shooting alot is not team basketball.

[MaceCase]

Nope I totally get the idea that 2.7 attempts is 2.7 attempts too many. I'm onboard with the concept.

My arguments is simple.....He's shooting a total of 58% from the floor, hitting just under 70% of his free throws, getting 5.3 assists, 5.3 boards, 1.67 blocks, 2.3 steals. He's only taking 10.3 shots a game but averaging 15ppg.

My argument is that we have bigger issues than 2.7 categorized shots per game of which he makes .4. Making 1.4 would be consider good enough to stay out there. What you are arguing is 1 missed opportunity a game.

Now take a look at how many times a game JJ tries to do it all himself and turns the ball over in the lane or how many times we have Zaza handling the ball at mid court.....I saw him dribbling up the floor in that Laker explosion and I went "WTF". Our discipline issues go way beyond Josh missing 1 too many shots outside of 16 feet a game.

If I had to say who is the only Hawk that gets it right now, I'd say it was Al Horford. But to complain about Josh seems to be throwing stones in the wrong direction. he is 1st or 2nd in the 6 key categories of ppg, reb, FG%, *ss, stl, blocks.

Joe Johnson is scoring 7 points more a game than Josh Smith but he's taking 7.3 more shots a game.

This team needs to be built around Horford, Smith and if he'd get his head out of his butt, Marvin and we need to stop feeding the guards an overabundance of shots. We will never take the next step as long as Joe Johnson is treated like a superstar. Joe is leaving next year fellas. Time to start looking for a more team oriented replacement.

Can someone get me a team per or effeciency rating please?

Understood but the issue is not really him shooting over the season (he took six jumpers on Sunday which is what is pushing up his average) it's that he was playing well over the first two games going inside and on a night when we desperately needed him to continue doing so he regressed back to bad Josh.

Despite Joe going off in that 1st quarter, when he went to the bench we were still behind the Lakers, the fact Josh had already taken 2 missed jumpers in that quarter to go along with 3 turnovers probably had some to do with that. Over the course of the game the forwards shot 31% to the guards 51% and were terribly outrebounded. The forwards folded in that game and Josh was a major culprit due in part to taking those ill advised shots, not rebounding and turning the ball over to every assist he made (he picked up two assists in the closing minutes of the 4th to save him from a perfect 1:1 ratio.)

When you consider the fact that handling the ball through traffic and taking bad shots are something a player can affect more than say a cold shooting night then yes you do have to agree he played a dumb game. You are bringing up stats saying that we should throw stones elsewhere but you are missing the point that between Josh being great and being mediocre to bad is his decision making. The contrast is so evident between him playing a game to his strengths and him completely shying away from them that you have to question him. Just imagine Dwight in a big game deciding to take 20 footers and play PG, yea his season stats still look great but you can't fool yourself into saying he played to his game that night and by him not doing so didn't affect the game.

[AHF]

Understood but the issue is not really him shooting over the season (he took six jumpers on Sunday which is what is pushing up his average) it's that he was playing well over the first two games going inside and on a night when we desperately needed him to continue doing so he regressed back to bad Josh.

True.

Also recognize that we are not just talking about 1 made FG. When Josh is hanging around on the perimeter it takes him away from the paint and removes him as a threat to pick up offensive rebounds or make putbacks - two things at which he should excel with his athleticism. The issue is that smart Josh can be an All-Star and jump shooting Josh is the other team's best defense. Let's hope that game 3 was the momentary relapse before his new disciplined approach to shot selection and floor spacing kicks back in.

[JackB1]

The most disturbing thing to me is seeing Josh just hanging around the 3 pt line all the time. He will just stand there lazily and wait for a pass instead of moving into better position near the rim.

I think the reason we are all so criticial of Josh is because we have been repeating the same things over and over year after year, just hoping something goes off in his head and he gets it.

Some players never reach theit potential. Sadly Josh's lack of understanding his own strengths and/or laziness to do what it takes will make him another one of those underachievers. I just

dont see him changing.

[bay2theAlady]

I think Josh gets intimidated when he can't get to the rim early in a game and lets his frustration from lack of calls get the best of him. I think Woody needs to take some initiative and get in his ear about sticking with his game and not settling for jump shots as a way to get back into the game. I scratch my head sometimes when I think of some of Woody's coaching "strategies."

[Admin]

I think Josh gets intimidated when he can't get to the rim early in a game and lets his frustration from lack of calls get the best of him. I think Woody needs to take some initiative and get in his ear about sticking with his game and not settling for jump shots as a way to get back into the game. I scratch my head sometimes when I think of some of Woody's coaching "strategies."

Good points there! At this point in his career Josh can still definitely be taken out of his game by a superior player and Odom owned Josh last year and while I didn't see this game I imagine he whipped him again.

[Johnnybravo4]

The problem is when we run the ISO Joe offense Smoove gets the ball on the perimeter off of a Joe double team. His defender backs off and dares him to shoot the shot. If he goes to the rim he'd get a charge or a turnover. He has to shoot it.

[AHF]

The problem is when we run the ISO Joe offense Smoove gets the ball on the perimeter off of a Joe double team. His defender backs off and dares him to shoot the shot. If he goes to the rim he'd get a charge or a turnover. He has to shoot it.

He could always pass it. Smoove just shouldn't shoot if that is how we are going to use him (and let me say that isn't how we should be using him). The defense will always take a 20 or 30% shot and we can't give that to them.

[Buzzard]

True.

Also recognize that we are not just talking about 1 made FG. When Josh is hanging around on the perimeter it takes him away from the paint and removes him as a threat to pick up offensive rebounds or make putbacks - two things at which he should excel with his athleticism. The issue is that smart Josh can be an All-Star and jump shooting Josh is the other team's best defense. Let's hope that game 3 was the momentary relapse before his new disciplined approach to shot selection and floor spacing kicks back in.

Hope so to. The thing that concerns me is he takes a lot of jumpshots against good defensive teams. Boston is by far the best example and LA is the 2nd best. The only difference between the two is he has made some jumpers against Boston (so we ignore it); but against LA he almost never makes them. He should pass as you say in another post; hopefully he just had a lapse, and we dont see this as a trend against teams such as Boston, LA, Orlando, the Cavs etc....Basically good teams with good interior defenses.