Is Teague getting the "Acie treatment"?

[Atlantaholic]

OK . . well break the minutes down by position. Just do it for the PG, SG, and SF spots ( seeing that you're going to have to play JJ at the 3 to make this work )

Teague hasn't done anything noteworthy to take minutes from Bibby. The one thing that could get him more PT, is to play good defense in thr 5 - 7 minutes he may get in the first half. If he does that, he may get more time in the 2nd half.

So go ahead and break down the minutes at those 3 positions, and who will you give them to.

He hasn't done anything noteworhty???

His per is 18.16 which ranks 16th in the NBA among PG (Higher than Deron Williams). His assist rate is like three times that of Bibby's. If you don't think that production merits more playing time than please tell me how well Teague has to play in his five minute cameos to merit more time. As poor as Teague's defense is, it is still better than Bibby's so I don't know why excelling on defense must be a necessity for him to get more time. (Not even taking into account that NO one on our team is playing defense this year)

Your point about rotation is not a good one. He could take some of Bibby's minutes, some of JJ's minutes and even some of Marvin's minutes. (play Craw at the 2, JJ at the 3, Teague at the 1). There is NO REASON that Teague shouldn't get at least 10 minutes every game, as a minimum. He is already averaging 11, but that includes a DNP, and extended time in a blow out loss. Teague's minutes could EASILY be consistently 10 minutes a game, all we would have to do is give our starters the minutes they are averaging day in and day out. Teague deserves them and our starters would benefit from the extra rest. Ty Lawson can find more playing time on a better Denver team, so I don't see why Teague can't get those minutes on ours.

[exodus]

He hasn't done anything noteworhty???

His per is 18.16 which ranks 16th in the NBA among PG (Higher than Deron Williams). His assist rate is like three times that of Bibby's. If you don't think that production merits more playing time than please tell me how well Teague has to play in his five minute cameos to merit more time. As poor as Teague's defense is, it is still better than Bibby's so I don't know why excelling on defense must be a necessity for him to get more time. (Not even taking into account that NO one on our team is playing defense this year)

Your point about rotation is not a good one. He could take some of Bibby's minutes, some of JJ's minutes and even some of Marvin's minutes. (play Craw at the 2, JJ at the 3, Teague at the 1). There is NO REASON that Teague shouldn't get at least 10 minutes every game, as a minimum. He is already averaging 11, but that includes a DNP, and extended time in a blow out loss. Teague's minutes could EASILY be consistently 10 minutes a game, all we would have to do is give our starters the minutes they are averaging day in and day out. Teague deserves them and our starters would benefit from the extra rest. Ty Lawson can find more playing time on a better Denver team, so I don't see why Teague can't get those minutes on ours.

If Shelden Williams can get 17 minutes per game for undefeated Boston I don't see why Teague can't get minutes here.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

He hasn't done anything noteworhty???

His per is 18.16 which ranks 16th in the NBA among PG (Higher than Deron Williams). His assist rate is like three times that of Bibby's. If you don't think that production merits more playing time than please tell me how well Teague has to play in his five minute cameos to merit more time. As poor as Teague's defense is, it is still better than Bibby's so I don't know why excelling on defense must be a necessity for him to get more time. (Not even taking into account that NO one on our team is playing defense this year)

Will you guys stop it about the PER of a bench player who plays limited minutes. You know good and well his PER in limited minutes isn't an indication of his actual production, if he got significant minutes.

You know the bench player I listed but did not name in a previous post . . who if you took his PER 36 numbers, he averages 16 pts - 12 rebs - has a TS% of 70% - and has a PER of 22.5? Do you know who that is?

IT'S SHELDEN WILLIAMS !!!

So are you now telling me that Shelden deserves significant time in the Boston frontline . . a frontline consisting of Perkins, KG, and Rasheed Wallace, simply because he has a high PER and he's been very productive in garbage time for the Celtics? His PER is higher than Perkins and KG, so Shelden should definitely be playing 25 minutes a game for them . . . right?

Your point about rotation is not a good one. He could take some of Bibby's minutes, some of JJ's minutes and even some of Marvin's minutes. (play Craw at the 2, JJ at the 3, Teague at the 1). There is NO REASON that Teague shouldn't get at least 10 minutes every game, as a minimum. He is already averaging 11, but that includes a DNP, and extended time in a blow out loss. Teague's minutes could EASILY be consistently 10 minutes a game, all we would have to do is give our starters the minutes they are averaging day in and day out. Teague deserves them and our starters would benefit from the extra rest. Ty Lawson can find more playing time on a better Denver team, so I don't see why Teague can't get those minutes on ours.

Well list how you will give him 10 minutes a game then. It isn't hard to do. Just list the people in your rotation of minutes, and how long they will play in each position. It can easily be done . . yes. I just want to see whose minutes you're going to reduce, in order to play Teague his 10 minutes.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

If Shelden Williams can get 17 minutes per game for undefeated Boston I don't see why Teague can't get minutes here.

Simple.

Boston is beating the hell out of people, so bench players like Shelden can get more playing time.

The Big Baby injury helps too. Otherwise, he may be in the same boat as Teague. You're not going to play Shelden 17 minutes a game, if your frontline consists of KG, Perkins, Rasheed, and Big Baby. If Big Baby is healthy, he's the 4th big man and Shelden is #5.

[exodus]

Will you guys stop it about the PER of a bench player who plays limited minutes. You know good and well his PER in limited minutes isn't an indication of his actual production, if he got significant minutes.

You know the bench player I listed but did not name in a previous post . . who if you took his PER 36 numbers, he averages 16 pts - 12 rebs - has a TS% of 70% - and has a PER of 22.5? Do you know who that is?

IT'S SHELDEN WILLIAMS !!!

So are you now telling me that Shelden deserves significant time in the Boston frontline . . a frontline consisting of Perkins, KG, and Rasheed Wallace, simply because he has a high PER and he's been very productive in garbage time for the Celtics? His PER is higher than Perkins and KG, so Shelden should definitely be playing 25 minutes a game for them . . . right?

Well list how you will give him 10 minutes a game then. It isn't hard to do. Just list the people in your rotation of minutes, and how long they will play in each position. It can easily be done . . yes. I just want to see whose minutes you're going to reduce, in order to play Teague his 10 minutes.

The fact is Shelden is getting significant time. he got 13 minutes opening night against the Cavs, a game that was in doubt until the very end. Perkins got 25 minutes that game, wallace 23. Pretty bad example.

if Shelden can get 13 minutes playing on a title contender against their chief rival in a tight game i don't see why Teague can't get more than 5 minutes against Sactown on the 2nd game of a back to back when the starters are struggling.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Just some thoughts on the matter. Bibby sees minutes thanks to moments like the closing minutes of the Sac game. I think we got an offensive rebound, the ball goes out to Marvin at the corner three, he pumps, the d rotates out to him, Marvin swings it out to a wide open Bibby. Bibby fakes the three rather than shoot it, draws his man out and then drives to the paint sucking in the D to protect the paint. Bibby then kicks the ball out to JJ on the corner three, Martin recovers but JJ now swings it to the completely wide open Jamal. In the end the stat says made 3 pointer Jamal Crawford, assisted by Joe Johnson but it was the vet savy of Bibby that forced the issue, putting the onus on the defense to react more than just closing out on a shooter. Bibby doesn't just play to his game, he understands the flow of the game and adjusts accordingly more than any other of our players. May not look pretty but that's the type of poise and intangibles you want in the number of tight games we've played so far.

I mean . . it's a no-brainer. Bibby's intelligence, veteran savvy, and his shooting are all reasons NOT to reduce his minutes for a rookie.

Since they won't do it . . I'll set a rotation that'll get Teague 10 minutes.

PG: Bibby ( 28 ) - Crawford ( 10 ) - Teague ( 10 )

G: JJ ( 24 ) - Crawford ( 18 ) - Evans ( 6 )

F: Marvin ( 30 ) - JJ ( 12 ) - Evans ( 6 )

JJ - 36

Marvin - 30

Bibby - 28

Crawford - 28

Evans - 12

Teague - 10

See . . . that wasn't so bad.

Now here's the question. During those times in the 2nd halves of games, in which we're behind, do you really want to stick with the rotation that sees Teague and Evans get the rest of their minutes . even though you know that JJ and Crawford can extend themselves past the 36 and 28 minute mark that they're set to play?

Shelden averages 17 minutes a game. But in a game against a "bad team" ( T-Wolves ), the Celtics found themselves in a battle. So Shelden saw his minutes cut in half, playing only 9 minutes ( as the 9th man on that squad )

But I guess Doc Rivers was supposed to reduce the minutes of Perkins, KG, and Rasheed, just so Shell ( the guy with the 22.5 PER ) could get his extra 8 minutes in a tight game against a bad team on the road?

Right.

[buckeye242424]

10 ppg shooting 41.7% does not impress me. I don't see how that is good enough to keep Teague pinned to the bench.

What would impress you? 12-13 ppg with a team loaded with scorers? Teague will play more, it's been 5 games, 3 out west.

[exodus]

I mean . . it's a no-brainer. Bibby's intelligence, veteran savvy, and his shooting are all reasons NOT to reduce his minutes for a rookie.

Since they won't do it . . I'll set a rotation that'll get Teague 10 minutes.

PG: Bibby ( 28 ) - Crawford ( 10 ) - Teague ( 10 )

G: JJ ( 24 ) - Crawford ( 18 ) - Evans ( 6 )

F: Marvin ( 30 ) - JJ ( 12 ) - Evans ( 6 )

JJ - 36

Marvin - 30

Bibby - 28

Crawford - 28

Evans - 12

Teague - 10

See . . . that wasn't so bad.

Now here's the question. During those times in the 2nd halves of games, in which we're behind, do you really want to stick with the rotation that sees Teague and Evans get the rest of their minutes . even though you know that JJ and Crawford can extend themselves past the 36 and 28 minute mark that they're set to play?

Shelden averages 17 minutes a game. But in a game against a "bad team" ( T-Wolves ), the Celtics found themselves in a battle. So Shelden saw his minutes cut in half, playing only 9 minutes ( as the 9th man on that squad )

But I guess Doc Rivers was supposed to reduce the minutes of Perkins, KG, and Rasheed, just so Shell ( the guy with the 22.5 PER ) could get his extra 8 minutes in a tight game against a bad team on the road?

Right.

Please explain how Shelden got 13 minutes opening night against the Cavs.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Please explain how Shelden got 13 minutes opening night against the Cavs.

Did you watch that game Ex? I did.

Cleveland was actually kicking Boston's azz in that 1st quarter. They were down 13 - 15 points I think. It was actually Boston's 2nd unit ( which Shelden is a part of ) that got them back in the game during the 2nd quarter. He had to have played about 9 minutes during that stretch alone. So there's 9 of your 13 minutes right there. Then he played the 1st part of the 4th quarter.

13 minutes.

So let's translate that to Teague. If Teague has an impactful 1st half, or if he's part of the group that extends a lead or gets us back in a game, he'd probably be rewarded with at least 13 minutes too.

But if Crawford is playing like a top 10 player in the league, and the game is tight, and you have Bibby rested on the bench . . there's no question who you're going to call on down the stretch.

And it ain't the rookie.

I mean, if Woody really wanted to, he could go with a solid 9-man rotation ( with Evans and Joe Smith as the 8th and 9th men ), with Teague completely out the mix. And the team wouldn't suffer from it AT ALL.

[exodus]

Did you watch that game Ex? I did.

Cleveland was actually kicking Boston's azz in that 1st quarter. They were down 13 - 15 points I think. It was actually Boston's 2nd unit ( which Shelden is a part of ) that got them back in the game during the 2nd quarter. He had to have played about 9 minutes during that stretch alone. So there's 9 of your 13 minutes right there. Then he played the 1st part of the 4th quarter.

13 minutes.

So let's translate that to Teague. If Teague has an impactful 1st half, or if he's part of the group that extends a lead or gets us back in a game, he'd probably be rewarded with at least 13 minutes too.

But if Crawford is playing like a top 10 player in the league, and the game is tight, and you have Bibby rested on the bench . . there's no question who you're going to call on down the stretch.

And it ain't the rookie.

I mean, if Woody really wanted to, he could go with a solid 9-man rotation ( with Evans and Joe Smith as the 8th and 9th men ), with Teague completely out the mix. And the team wouldn't suffer from it AT ALL.

So the starters getting worn down by big minutes doesn't count as suffering? Need i remind you of the midseason slumps JJ has gone through and the team as well?

It would be hard for Teague to have an impactful first half from the bench or playing only 5 minutes. All he can do is play well when he gets the chance to play. but if he never plays meaningful minutes in a close game how is he supposed to earn minutes?

It isn't like the starters have come out blazing lately. They start the game like sleepwalkers.

It is also a little weird for me to see you singing Crawford's praises given that you had a tantrum about the trade that brought him here. i don't see the big deal about taking a hhandful of minutes from Crawford and or Bibby and giving them to Teague to see what he can do.

Edited November 6, 2009 by exodus

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So the starters getting worn down by big minutes doesn't count as suffering? Need i remind you of the midseason slumps JJ has gone through and the team as well?

It would be hard for Teague to have an impactful first half from the bench or playing only 5 minutes. All he can do is play well when he gets the chance to play. but if he never plays meaningful minutes in a close game how is he supposed to earn minutes?

It isn't like the starters have come out blazing lately. They start the game like sleepwalkers.

It is also a little weird for me to see you singing Crawford's praises given that you had a tantrum about the trade that brought him here. i don't see the big deal about taking a hhandful of minutes from Crawford and or Bibby and giving them to Teague to see what he can do.

I see we're on a merry-go-round, so I'll re-state my position one last time, and you can have the final word.

- I'm not against Teague playing 10 - 20 minutes a night. I just know that with the talent on this team, and the talent at the position he plays, that it may or may not happen on some nights. And the only way he plays close to 20 minutes in a game, is if it's a blowout . . Crawford and/or Bibby are in foul trouble . . or if he's having a very good game. People shouldn't be too concerned if he isn't playing steady minutes at the start of the season.

- It's the 2nd week of the season and JJ is averaging 37 minutes a game. 35 minutes should be the target. Anything less than that is probably detrimental to the team. JJ's minutes will balance out, as long as Crawford isn't stinking it up at SG. So I'm not going to freak out if the guy is playing more than 36 minutes in some games early in the season. But we do have some very tough games coming up this month, ( Denver, Boston, Orlando, etc ) so I wouldn't be surprised if JJ logs some more 37 - 40 minute games.

- If Crawford is playing like a star, I have little problem with him being on the court for extra minutes, outside of his defense. But I have said that Woody can only play him major minutes if his offensive game is on. If not, then Bibby or Teague has to be in, because Crawford will shoot us out of games.

- Bibby is a veteran PG that can shoot, pass, and has basketball smarts ( on offense ). I trust him more than I trust the rookie. So if Woody opts to play him 16 - 18 minutes in the 2nd half of games, instead of the 12 - 14 minutes he's been getting in the 1st half, I have no problem with it.

As the coach has said . . he's not sacrificing games, just to give guys minutes. I don't disagree at all with that philosophy.

[exodus]

- I'm not against Teague playing 10 - 20 minutes a night.

The problem is that he has played only 5 minutes in the last two games. There is absolutely no reason for that.

As the coach has said . . he's not sacrificing games, just to give guys minutes. I don't disagree at all with that philosophy.

I am still waiting to hear how giving Teague minutes would costs the Hawks games.

[DrReality]

The fact that Teague has even seen the court already shows a big difference. And the time he's played he's made an impression. Agree with his ability to drive the ball. I would think he'd get more minutes at home/

[Atlantaholic]

The fact that Teague has even seen the court already shows a big difference. And the time he's played he's made an impression. Agree with his ability to drive the ball. I would think he'd get more minutes at home/

Well, Acie Averaged 15 mpg his rookie year, which is five more than Teague is averaging. So......

[MaceCase]

Well, Acie Averaged 15 mpg his rookie year, which is five more than Teague is averaging. So......

I'm sure his starts skew that number not to mention the injuries to Lue, AJ and Speedy that year. I wonder what his minutes were like after the BIbby trade because I'm pretty sure Chills was the fulltime backup PG after that point.

[Atlantaholic]

I'm sure his starts skew that number not to mention the injuries to Lue, AJ and Speedy that year. I wonder what his minutes were like after the BIbby trade because I'm pretty sure Chills was the fulltime backup PG after that point.

If Teague is having a hard time getting on the court in November, how hard do you think it will be when we start fighting for playoff positioning?

I'm not ready to condemn Woody on Teague just yet, but the trend so far has been very discouraging... Add in Woody´s track record with handling the bench and I'd say I'm definitey a bit worried about Teague this year.

[AHF]

Despite the limited time Teague has gotten (better lately - yea!), he has 17 assists on the season to Bibby's 26 which shows exactly how big the gulf is between their ability to generate quality shots for others on the court.

Teague's A/TO ratio is 17 to 3 so far this season. He has impressed me with how few turnovers he has made. This is likely the reason he has a better PER than Bibby this season, despite his struggles shooting the ball in the early going.

If Woodson does a rotation along the lines of:

PG: Bibby 26 mpg/Crawford 10 mpg/Teague 11 mpg/JJ 2 mpg

SG: JJ 24 mpg/Crawford 19 mpg/Evans 4 mpg

SF: Marvin 30 mpg/JJ 10 mpg/Evans 8 mpg

PF: Josh Smith 34 mpg/Horford 6 mpg/Joe Smith 8 mpg

C: Horford 28 mpg/Zaza 18 mpg/Collins 2 mpg

That would be:

JJ 36 mpg

Horford 34 mpg

Josh 34 mpg

Crawford 30 mpg

Bibby 26 mpg

Zaza 18 mpg

Evans 12 mpg

Teague 11 mpg

Joe 8 mpg

Teague is now averaging 11.6 mpg, which makes me much happier than where we were after 5 games. If he earns more minutes, great. If he doesn't then keep giving him limited but consistent minutes. Bibby and JJ are going to need rest this season so we don't see them repeat their late season/post-season performances from last year when they were spent.

[frankthetank966]

I would not worry about Teague getting minutes, the season is still early, and I just think Woody wanted to play it safe and make sure he gets another road win.

I agree, but at the same time there are times in the game I would like to see Teague to get a change of pace.

[NineOhTheRino]

Brandon Jennings (rookie) went for 32 pts and 9 dimes last night.

Rookie but remember he did play 1 year of pro ball overseas.

Edited November 12, 2009 by NineOhTheRino

[AHF]

I don't like the fact that Woody doesn't trust the team enough to give Teague a few steady minutes against the dregs of the league like Sacramento and NY. Isn't the exact kind of game where you end up giving a young player more time is when the starters are lathargic and struggling against an inferior opponent?

I am rooting for you to turn this trend around, Woody!