We are better off without Chris Paul!

[AHF]

Looking at what kind of team we got now compare to what it might have been if we had Paul.

C-Zaza

PF-Smoove

SF-Chill

SG-Johnson

PG-Paul

or

C-Horford

PF-Smoove

SF-Marvin

SG-Johnson

PG-Bibby

Just doing the starters. Make your choice from that.

Do we have to forfeit all draft picks and lose the ability to trade if we draft Paul? Amazing how one lineup has two starters not on the roster when the Marvin/Paul pick was made and the other is frozen in time.

It is safe to say that we would have more assets than many on this board are willing to acknowledge had we taken Paul - like Utah added Paul Millsap, Ronny Brewer, etc. after drafting Deron and that doesn't even count that we take someone more worthwhile than Acie Law if we have a PG with that #11 pick. Bottomline is that there is too much uncertainty to say much more than that the Marvin pick was a mistake that we need to let go and hope he emerges. He is a Hawk and there is no going back in time on this.

[Atlantaholic]

Do we have to forfeit all draft picks and lose the ability to trade if we draft Paul? Amazing how one lineup has two starters not on the roster when the Marvin/Paul pick was made and the other is frozen in time.

It is safe to say that we would have more assets than many on this board are willing to acknowledge had we taken Paul - like Utah added Paul Millsap, Ronny Brewer, etc. after drafting Deron and that doesn't even count that we take someone more worthwhile than Acie Law if we have a PG with that #11 pick. Bottomline is that there is too much uncertainty to say much more than that the Marvin pick was a mistake that we need to let go and hope he emerges. He is a Hawk and there is no going back in time on this.

Please just let these threads die. Stop posting. I know it seems hypocritical of me to post this, but I'm making a stand. Just ignore these total abysses of logic. We make the same points over and over and people still want to talk about some insane hypothetical situation to justify the Marvin pick... Just please, everyone with a modicum of sense, from now on just let these dumb threads die. I don't mean to sound righteous and I know I could just ignore these threads, but when there is so much good to celebrate about our Hawks this year it just makes me furious to see people bring up the dark days.

[jy23]

Naw!! We'd be New Orleans if we had Paul!!

????How would we be New Orleans????? We already had talent on the team and would still be a much more talented team with Paul or Williams here. With just Chris, JJ, n Smoove we'd be a pretty damn good team. Having Paul would make JJ n Smoove much better players and just by going from the stupid logic that has been used by people when it comes to this topic saying that our team would have basically just stopped making moves and just completely give up on trying to get better we would have had Chillz and ZaZa in the starting lineup with those guys. The only spot that we lose at is center, Al is a much better player than Zaza but i still think we all would say that we're lacking at that spot, other than that its either a wash or an upgrade at every other position. Like AHF has said many times u can't just act like we completely stop drafting after we get Paul or that the free agency market just doesn't exist anymore. We would't be New Orleans, we'd be the Atlanta Hawks with a franchise pg. I'm happy with the way our team is constructed now but saying things like this is just dumb

[sillent]

ShaqPau/Lamar/Bynum/Artest??Kobe Bryant = 4 Rings $$$$$

Ray,Peirce/KG = 1 Ring $$$$$

Yao/ArtestTMac = 0 rings $$$$$ still searching

(Mark Cuban)Dirk = Finals Appearance $$$$$$

Shaq??Lebron = Finals Appearance

ShaqWade = 1 Ring

Are we supposed to believe teams are better off not drafting guys like this?

I would hope not at the financial stage we were in. All these players would be great to have but if we don't have the finances to get more talent around them we will be like 3 of the aforementioned above. All of these players are too talented and have too much pride to get a good(lottery) draft pick so we'd either have to go until we've reached our peak or continue building with talent until we are too deep to fail. We took undeveloped talent which takes time. Looks like most of the above teams were/are playing Tic Shaq Toe to get a win!!

[sillent]

????How would we be New Orleans????? We already had talent on the team and would still be a much more talented team with Paul or Williams here. With just Chris, JJ, n Smoove we'd be a pretty damn good team. Having Paul would make JJ n Smoove much better players and just by going from the stupid logic that has been used by people when it comes to this topic saying that our team would have basically just stopped making moves and just completely give up on trying to get better we would have had Chillz and ZaZa in the starting lineup with those guys. The only spot that we lose at is center, Al is a much better player than Zaza but i still think we all would say that we're lacking at that spot, other than that its either a wash or an upgrade at every other position. Like AHF has said many times u can't just act like we completely stop drafting after we get Paul or that the free agency market just doesn't exist anymore. We would't be New Orleans, we'd be the Atlanta Hawks with a franchise pg. I'm happy with the way our team is constructed now but saying things like this is just dumb

You just answered your own question. New Orleans was a pretty damn good team 2 years ago. Say we do have Chris Paul, Joe Johnson and Josh Smith we would probably still be one of the most exciting teams in the league. Josh would still probably take at least till his contract year(past tense) to put it all together(He did come straight out of highschool). You would have 3 big contracts (Paul would grant one and so would Smoove on top of JJ getting/wanting more). We would be great but probably still a step below winning a Championship. Too good to continue building through draft picks at least Lotto's and either way would have to eventually worry about losing/trading one of the 3 if our late draft pick did pan out( Can't afford them all). Look at Utah with the Boozer/Millsap situation. Confusion turns to disfunction and when you don't know your role or place on a team it could hurt chemistry.

What would have happened to us if Joe wanted to be the man over Paul(which Joe did come to this team looking to make a name for him self)?

Or Josh was to good to soon(skillfully ready but not mentally ready) and decided he wanted to be the man of his home town team and ran either Joe or Paul away.Or maybe Woodson would not tolerate it and either he or Smoove is gone (Smoove would be even more hot headed being young with no peers besides Childress and Paul coming in alot more mature. Sure at the time we may get the so called "championship coach" most of us asked for or would be asking for since Woodson is more of a developing coach than a win now coach. But who is to say that this coach would not want to formulate the team more in his image (whatever that would be) and not allow our team/talent time to develop together. Yes a scenario could be that we win a Championship but it would have been unlikely with a young Josh Smith, Joe Johnson trying to make a name for him self and maybe getting a lucky pick outside of the lottery soon enough to have a legit title conteder before it all falls apart. Point is we would be New Orleans in some form or another. Great but not great enough before everything unfolds(Basically saying we can be good for as long as we can with not much room of improving in the long run without making changes that may be major) SEE UTAH.

Our current team is still young, are flexible financially and position wise,deep and have no where to go but up for awhile.

Edited November 19, 2009 by sillent

[jy23]

You just answered your own question. New Orleans was a pretty damn good team 2 years ago. Say we do have Chris Paul, Joe Johnson and Josh Smith we would probably still be one of the most exciting teams in the league. Josh would still probably take at least till his contract year(past tense) to put it all together(He did come straight out of highschool). You would have 3 big contracts (Paul would grant one and so would Smoove on top of JJ getting/wanting more). We would be great but probably still a step below winning a Championship. Too good to continue building through draft picks at least Lotto's and either way would have to eventually worry about losing/trading one of the 3 if our late draft pick did pan out( Can't afford them all). Look at Utah with the Boozer/Millsap situation. Confusion turns to disfunction and when you don't know your role or place on a team it could hurt chemistry.

What would have happened to us if Joe wanted to be the man over Paul(which Joe did come to this team looking to make a name for him self)?

Or Josh was to good to soon(skillfully ready but not mentally ready) and decided he wanted to be the man of his home town team and ran either Joe or Paul away.Or maybe Woodson would not tolerate it and either he or Smoove is gone (Smoove would be even more hot headed being young with no peers besides Childress and Paul coming in alot more mature. Sure at the time we may get the so called "championship coach" most of us asked for or would be asking for since Woodson is more of a developing coach than a win now coach. But who is to say that this coach would not want to formulate the team more in his image (whatever that would be) and not allow our team/talent time to develop together. Yes a scenario could be that we win a Championship but it would have been unlikely with a young Josh Smith, Joe Johnson trying to make a name for him self and maybe getting a lucky pick outside of the lottery soon enough to have a legit title conteder before it all falls apart. Point is we would be New Orleans in some form or another. Great but not great enough before everything unfolds(Basically saying we can be good for as long as we can with not much room of improving in the long run without making changes that may be major) SEE UTAH.

Our current team is still young, are flexible financially and position wise,deep and have no where to go but up for awhile.

Basically your entire post was a bunch of what ifs...........................So is there an actual point to be made here..................if thats the case WHAT IF Garnett, Howard, and Big Z all had major injuriesin the 2007 playoffs when we had CP3 JJ n Smoove, we would have no big man to deal with and a pretty good shot at the title...............WHAT IF we started to get veteran free agent defference makers to start coming to our team for the vet min because they saw a great young team and the chance to win a ring................WHAT IF we stopped this ridiculous conversation.

[Sothron]

Just imagine if we had Deron (who IMO is still better than Paul) or Paul plus Roy. JJ would probably be playing small forward, Smoove would still be at 4 and I don't know what we'd have at center because I don't think we would have gotten Horford.

[tremor]

Hornets won two straight games without Paul, case closed.

Edited November 20, 2009 by tremor

[BusBoyIsBack]

Hornets won two straight games without Paul, case closed.

One against a team that was tied with us with the best record in the NBA.

But that's not why I think we are better off.

I've been thinking about this myself. IF we had landed Chris Paul, there is no guarantee we would have landed Joe Johnson. We sold him on the idea of playing point guard. And even if we do land Joe Johnson there's something else. We don't ever get that draft pick to land Horford. There is no best of both worlds between Rick Sund and Billy Knight as Knight leaves and Sund comes in and builds the bench. Knight put together a great starting lineup but Sund put together a superior bench. Joe Smith, Crawford, etc.

All in all, we now have arguably the brightest young roster in the NBA on top of veteran leadership around it. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Sure landing Horford was lucky, sure Paul is better than any player on our team, but the sum of this team is greater than any individual parts that we could have had with Chris Paul.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Looking at what kind of team we got now compare to what it might have been if we had Paul.

C-Zaza

PF-Smoove

SF-Chill

SG-Johnson

PG-Paul

or

C-Horford

PF-Smoove

SF-Marvin

SG-Johnson

PG-Bibby

Just doing the starters. Make your choice from that.

Chris Paul lovers won't want to admit it but team two is better. Not to mention team 2 has a deeper bench. Billy Knight had no idea how to put together a bench. The best bench player he got us was Zaza who would have been a starter if we had Paul. We never would have been bad enough to get a big better than Zaza. Zaza off the bench with Horford starting is a huge swing of momentum in favor of the current Hawks team. Not to mention the other bench players we have right now most notably 6th man of the year Jamal Crawford.

And in a way Josh Smith may be a better player without Chris Paul. That sounds crazy but without a facilitator like Paul, Josh Smith has been forced to learn how to create for himself on offense and has developed some post moves as a consequence.

Edited November 20, 2009 by BusBoyIsBack

[AHF]

Chris Paul lovers won't want to admit it but team two is better. Not to mention team 2 has a deeper bench. Billy Knight had no idea how to put together a bench. The best bench player he got us was Zaza who would have been a starter if we had Paul. We never would have been bad enough to get a big better than Zaza. Zaza off the bench with Horford starting is a huge swing of momentum in favor of the current Hawks team. Not to mention the other bench players we have right now most notably 6th man of the year Jamal Crawford.

And in a way Josh Smith may be a better player without Chris Paul. That sounds crazy but without a facilitator like Paul, Josh Smith has been forced to learn how to create for himself on offense and has developed some post moves as a consequence.

C-Zaza

PF-Smoove

SF-Chill

SG-Johnson

PG-Paul

+ FA with Speedy's money

+2007 lottery pick from Ind that would not be used on Acie Law

+2007 (if lucky ala Horford) or 2008 first round pick (assumed to be the latter here)

+ 2006 trading Shelden Williams, etc. for someone like Marcus Camby instead of for Mike Bibby -- alternatively don't waste the pick on Shelden Williams and draft someone like Roy

or

C-Horford - 2007 draft

PF-Smoove

SF-Marvin

SG-Johnson

PG-Bibby - 2006 draft equity + 2007 lottery pick

+ Speedy

Notice anything slanted about these team views?

One could easily put together an alternate reality team of:

PG: Paul

SG: JJ

SF: Thaddeus Young

PF: Smooth

C: Camby (whether Denver would agree to delayed cap relief or not is questionable)

6th man - Chillz, Chris Wilcox

+2008 Hawks first round pick - Marreese Speights, DeAndre Jordan, etc.

There are just so many ways this could play out but BK would have to be 100% incompetent to draft Paul and then not add another player through at least one lottery pick, multiple first round picks, free agency and trades for the next 4 years like the team 1 above assumes.

Edited November 20, 2009 by AHF

[Atlantaholic]

C-Zaza

PF-Smoove

SF-Chill

SG-Johnson

PG-Paul

+ FA with Speedy's money

+2007 lottery pick from Ind that would not be used on Acie Law

+2007 (if lucky ala Horford) or 2008 first round pick (assumed to be the latter here)

+ 2006 trading Shelden Williams, etc. for someone like Marcus Camby instead of for Mike Bibby -- alternatively don't waste the pick on Shelden Williams and draft someone like Roy

or

C-Horford - 2007 draft

PF-Smoove

SF-Marvin

SG-Johnson

PG-Bibby - 2006 draft equity + 2007 lottery pick

+ Speedy

Notice anything slanted about these team views?

One could easily put together an alternate reality team of:

PG: Paul

SG: JJ

SF: Thaddeus Young

PF: Smooth

C: Camby (whether Denver would agree to delayed cap relief or not is questionable)

6th man - Chillz, Chris Wilcox

+2008 Hawks first round pick - Marreese Speights, DeAndre Jordan, etc.

There are just so many ways this could play out but BK would have to be 100% incompetent to draft Paul and then not add another player through at least one lottery pick, multiple first round picks, free agency and trades for the next 4 years like the team 1 above assumes.

The amount of variables are infinite, and it is impossible to know what type of team we would have had if we had drafted Paul. The only thing we DO know for sure is that instead of Marvin Williams' 9 points and 4.5 rebounds we would have Chris Paul's 23 Points 60% FG% and 9 assissts. There is no point at all to these threads

[Dejay]

I've already rode down the CP3 versus Marvin street so many times that I might as well make one more trip for nostagia's sake. The team as currently constructed is a very good team. With Paul, we would've been a very good team because of the $$$ left over from not having to spend it on Claxton and Bibby could've and would've been used on a big man to take Horford's spot. And I'm pretty sure the picks used to bring in Stoudamire (Monta Ellis), Shelden (Roy, Milsap), and Law (Young) would've been used to possibly draft some of the guys in parentheses instead; but with BK running the show, well....

[jy23]

C-Zaza

PF-Smoove

SF-Chill

SG-Johnson

PG-Paul

+ FA with Speedy's money

+2007 lottery pick from Ind that would not be used on Acie Law

+2007 (if lucky ala Horford) or 2008 first round pick (assumed to be the latter here)

+ 2006 trading Shelden Williams, etc. for someone like Marcus Camby instead of for Mike Bibby -- alternatively don't waste the pick on Shelden Williams and draft someone like Roy

or

C-Horford - 2007 draft

PF-Smoove

SF-Marvin

SG-Johnson

PG-Bibby - 2006 draft equity + 2007 lottery pick

+ Speedy

Notice anything slanted about these team views?

One could easily put together an alternate reality team of:

PG: Paul

SG: JJ

SF: Thaddeus Young

PF: Smooth

C: Camby (whether Denver would agree to delayed cap relief or not is questionable)

6th man - Chillz, Chris Wilcox

+2008 Hawks first round pick - Marreese Speights, DeAndre Jordan, etc.

There are just so many ways this could play out but BK would have to be 100% incompetent to draft Paul and then not add another player through at least one lottery pick, multiple first round picks, free agency and trades for the next 4 years like the team 1 above assumes.

thank you, I cant break it down like this so I'm glad u did it.