According to Bill Simmons @ ESPN we're struggling financially

[macdaddy]

It will change if we continue to have success. We need some big wins over the league's elite. The two biggest things working against them are the years of struggling and that the franchise doesn't have a face. Joe is the recognized team leader but he's not marketed as the face of the franchise. Every team needs that even if its not your best player. The Braves have Chipper, Falcons have Ryan. When Detroit was elite its arguable that Ben Wallace was the face or at least the spirit (and the fro) of the franchise.

[Dejay]

Okay, let's dissect your argument a little bit....

'I'm sorry, but if people in that city are using the past "failures" of the Hawk teams in the 90s, as a reason for them not supporting this current Hawk team, then I don't know what to say about them.'

Why the hell WOULDN'T they? All they've known since this franchise arrived in 1968 is watching them exit in the first or second round and not an inch further. Name another NBA team who has stayed in the same town as long without any postseason success that MATTERS sans the Clippers. Don't worry, I'll wait....

.......ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.......................................ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ..........................................

That's what I thought.

The most successful run this team has had so far is more known for a Game 6 and 7 in the second round that they LOST. Until this team shakes away that reputation and get to an ECF, casual fans in this town will still remained mostly unconvinced.

'The Braves thing always amazed me. When the team was absolute garbage, they hardly got any support. When they became good, EVERYBODY all of a sudden were Braves fans.'

You mean like Chicago did once Jordan came on the scene and they started winning? Or Detroit before Isiah and the Bad Boys arrived? Because I recall both towns selling out back in the early '80s and...oh wait....

'But then, when they (the Braves) were good, but not great, the fans got complacent as hell, even during playoff time. Like they were the Yankees or something, and expected to win titles every year. Please.'

Again, why WOULDN'T they? Why we couldn't we have the same expectations as Yankee fans did back then? The Yankees fired Buck Showalter after they lost to Seattle in the '95 Wild Card round; know why? Because simply getting to the playoffs wasn't good enough. I recall the Red Sox running Grady Little out of town because he left Pedro in for one batter too many in the '03 ALCS; know why? Because simply getting to the playoffs wasn't good enough. The end result was the Yankees going on to win 5 world titles and the Red Sox winning two. The freakin' Marlins have more world titles than the Braves and they weren't even around when the Braves started their run of meaningless division titles. Meanwhile, Bobby Cox, whose had more than his share of opportunities to 'get er done', gets to call his shot of when he wants to leave. Sports radio stations can't even get John Schoerholz on the phone unless they're gushing over their 14-year run as one for the ages. Excuse me? And you wonder why we stopped going to their playoff games?

There's a reason why Florida ran Ron Zook out of Gainesville; because they don't do Citrus and Outback Bowls. Phil Fulmer was shown the door because Tennessee don't supposed to spend the entire bowl season watching other teams play. Same for Auburn and Tommy Tuberville.

It's all about expectations. Yankee and Red Sox brass has the same expectations as their fans do. The folks running the Braves don't share the fans' want of winning world titles; they're more than happy to hang up another blue banner and calling it a 'great year' after watching (insert NL team here) slap them around (again) and spray champagne on each other in the middle of Turner Field (again). Thus, the empty seats in October.

'That's why I kind of feel sorry for any Hawk fan that refuses to completely enjoy this team in 2010, simply because they feel that the Hawks can't win a title. Really? After all the crap this franchise has been through since we traded Mookie and Smitty? After basically being a laughingstock for 9 straight years.'

I can't really argue this point but I can say that longtime fans like you, me, and hundreds of others on this board are starving for our payoff for all the years of hapless basketball, blown draft picks, and watching expansion teams in other cities stage ticker-tape parades. I'm hoping that it will be soon.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Dejay

[Buzzard]

Okay, let's dissect your argument a little bit....

'I'm sorry, but if people in that city are using the past "failures" of the Hawk teams in the 90s, as a reason for them not supporting this current Hawk team, then I don't know what to say about them.'

Why the hell WOULDN'T they? All they've known since this franchise arrived in 1968 is watching them exit in the first or second round and not an inch further. Name another NBA team who has stayed in the same town as long without any postseason success that MATTERS sans the Clippers. Don't worry, I'll wait....

.......ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.......................................ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ..........................................

That's what I thought.

The most successful run this team has had so far is more known for a Game 6 and 7 in the second round that they LOST. Until this team shakes away that reputation and get to an ECF, casual fans in this town will still remained mostly unconvinced.

'The Braves thing always amazed me. When the team was absolute garbage, they hardly got any support. When they became good, EVERYBODY all of a sudden were Braves fans.'

You mean like Chicago did once Jordan came on the scene and they started winning? Or Detroit before Isiah and the Bad Boys arrived? Because I recall both towns selling out back in the early '80s and...oh wait....

'But then, when they (the Braves) were good, but not great, the fans got complacent as hell, even during playoff time. Like they were the Yankees or something, and expected to win titles every year. Please.'

Again, why WOULDN'T they? Why we couldn't we have the same expectations as Yankee fans did back then? The Yankees fired Buck Showalter after they lost to Seattle in the '95 Wild Card round; know why? Because simply getting to the playoffs wasn't good enough. I recall the Red Sox running Grady Little out of town because he left Pedro in for one batter too many in the '03 ALCS; know why? Because simply getting to the playoffs wasn't good enough. The end result was the Yankees going on to win 5 world titles and the Red Sox winning two. The freakin' Marlins have more world titles than the Braves and they weren't even around when the Braves started their run of meaningless division titles. Meanwhile, Bobby Cox, whose had more than his share of opportunities to 'get er done', gets to call his shot of when he wants to leave. Sports radio stations can't even get John Schoerholz on the phone unless they're gushing over their 14-year run as one for the ages. Excuse me? And you wonder why we stopped going to their playoff games?

There's a reason why Florida ran Ron Zook out of Gainesville; because they don't do Citrus and Outback Bowls. Phil Fulmer was shown the door because Tennessee don't supposed to spend the entire bowl season watching other teams play. Same for Auburn and Tommy Tuberville.

It's all about expectations. Yankee and Red Sox brass has the same expectations as their fans do. The folks running the Braves don't share the fans' want of winning world titles; they're more than happy to hang up another blue banner and calling it a 'great year' after watching (insert NL team here) slap them around (again) and spray champagne on each other in the middle of Turner Field (again). Thus, the empty seats in October.

'That's why I kind of feel sorry for any Hawk fan that refuses to completely enjoy this team in 2010, simply because they feel that the Hawks can't win a title. Really? After all the crap this franchise has been through since we traded Mookie and Smitty? After basically being a laughingstock for 9 straight years.'

I can't really argue this point but I can say that longtime fans like you, me, and hundreds of others on this board are starving for our payoff for all the years of hapless basketball, blown draft picks, and watching expansion teams in other cities stage ticker-tape parades. I'm hoping that it will be soon.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

This post says it all concerning fans who have been living in the Atlanta area a long time. The reason the Yankees, Redsox, Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Knicks etc sell out is because their owners sell out when trying to win championships. That is the bottom line. Casual fans will not spend hundreds, even thousands, of their hard earned dollars if they do not think the owners are truly invested in winning.

I can only think of five times off the top of my head when we really tried to do that.

Drafting Pistol Pete then trading him and drafting David Thompson and Marvin Webster. They tried, does not mean they succeeded.

The drug Drew team and keeping them together until trading Drew for Nique.

The Nique team and keeping that talented core together.

The signings of Reggie and Moses. Wish Ted would have kept them one more year.

Bringing in Shareef and Theo. Yes I know this turned out horrible for us but on paper it looked great at the time.

Otherwise our ownership has been just flailing away, happy to keep payroll down while still gathering revenue; and bitching about low ticket sales and fan support.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Buzzard