Josh Smith shot chart (via RealGM)

[mrhonline]

17 for 78 on jumpers...Wow. Perhaps we need to urge him to give up those, too...

Edited January 5, 2010 by mrhonline

[spotatl]

So who out there still thinks the team should bring in a "real" center and move Smith to SF?

[Diesel]

So who out there still thinks the team should bring in a "real" center and move Smith to SF?

I think a real C or PF.

Sf is a defensive tag.. not offensive.

IF we brought in Okur, and move Smoove to Sf... How do you think Smoove's duties will change offensively?

IF we brought in Aldridge and Moves Smoove to Sf.... How do you think Smoove's duties will change offensively?

I know this. Talking about Josh Smith's offense is not taking anyone's eyes off of how putridly Williams is playing.

[mrhonline]

I think a real C or PF.

Sf is a defensive tag.. not offensive.

IF we brought in Okur, and move Smoove to Sf... How do you think Smoove's duties will change offensively?

IF we brought in Aldridge and Moves Smoove to Sf.... How do you think Smoove's duties will change offensively?

The Hawks already have a real PF in Horford, and neither of those two guys are real centers. Got any better suggestions?

Regardless, moving Smith to SF hurts the team on both sides of the court. It's too bad he wasn't two inches taller, he'd be the best defensive center in the league.

I know this. Talking about Josh Smith's offense is not taking anyone's eyes off of how putridly Williams is playing.

At least Marvin is smart enough to take shots he can hit.

[spotatl]

I just don't see Aldridge and Okur as any better at defending centers than Horford... I don't get your post at all Diesel. I just can't see how anyone thinks that Josh Smith should be playing FURTHER away from the basket. If you want a real center on this team I think it has to be either to go with a 3 man rotation at PF/C or by trading one of Smith or Horford to do it. Smith is not on any level a SF. Even on defense taking him further away from the basket limits what he does well- the Hawks already struggle when the other team has a PF that can drag him away from the hoop. Its a huge reason why the Magic destroy the Hawks so frequently.

[coachx]

So who out there still thinks the team should bring in a "real" center and move Smith to SF?

Smoove for Kaman is looking pretty good right now.

Beasley was taking Smith to school in the 1st half. It showed how limited Smith truely is offensively when he has NO fast break points to fall back on. Having Kaman play a traditional positional defensive role as a rebounding center would be nice to see on this team. Horford has what it takes to be a solid help defender and can get up and down the court with the best PF in the game. Seeing Horford having the chance to post up vs. PF every night, rather then C's would be quite intrigueing as well Kaman;s offensive post game is nothing to sneeze at either. No doubt that Kaman would make us a better half court team on both offense and defense.

Also....having Kaman and Horford gives a BIG front line that could make Crawford and JJ more effective on the floor together as a SG/SF duo.

Having 2 big brutes (Kaman / Horford) to set screens in half court sets would be a nice luxury too.

I'm beginning to buy into Kaman as a Hawk as Smith's limitations become more and more apparent.....though Kaman misses 10 games a year to injury. As long as he is at or near 100% come the playoffs he could help us alot vs. the big 3 in the East who all have huge front lines.

I don't know why the Clippers would want Smoove when they already have Blake Griffin but maybe a 3 way could be worked out.

Edited January 5, 2010 by coachx

[mrhonline]

Smoove for Kaman is looking pretty good right now.

I'd rather trade Marvin than Smith, to be honest. Smith, despite his offensive limitations, is still the Hawks' 3rd best player on defense alone. He'd be extremely difficult to replace.

Marvin, on the other hand, has been assigned the role of a player worth about $3M/year. I think you could get similar production from someone like Ryan Gomes.

[coachx]

I'd rather trade Marvin than Smith, to be honest. Smith, despite his offensive limitations, is still the Hawks' 3rd best player on defense alone. He'd be extremely difficult to replace.

Marvin, on the other hand, has been assigned the role of a player worth about $3M/year. I think you could get similar production from someone like Ryan Gomes.

I am not saying Marvin is better then Smith at all.

We just can't get crap for Marvin, and his 5 year contract, right now.

Its easy to get trigger happy with trades when your in the middle of a losing streak but this year may be the time to do it. Sure there is a risk in anything. Kaman is 27...........Smoove is 24...........both are still young but only one is a legit 7 footer with post game on both ends of the court and the size to bother a Howard or Perkins in a 7 game playoff series.

I don't think that Dunleavy lets Kaman leave but you never know. Maybe is he is high on D. Jordan as their future center and thinks Smoove could play with Blake Griffin as a athletic foward tandem.

Edited January 5, 2010 by coachx

[mrhonline]

We just can't get crap for Marvin, and his 5 year contract, right now.

I don't agree at all. Every scout in the NBA will know that Marvin's role on the Hawks is minimized, and his contract is basically an MLE-type deal after this season (4 yrs, $30M). He's easily moved in a larger deal.

[coachx]

I don't agree at all. Every scout in the NBA will know that Marvin's role on the Hawks is minimized, and his contract is basically an MLE-type deal after this season (4 yrs, $30M). He's easily moved in a larger deal.

Call me crazy, but I just don't think owners are wanting to add underperforming players with 5 years of over payment remaining on their contract. All I have heard are owners wanting to cut salary, save money, and add future flexibility by trading longer contracts for shorter contracts.

I seriously doubt any GM goes to their owner, in this economy, to say lets trade this player, with comparable salary, for Marvin Williams b/c his salary would be easily moved in a future deal. Mr. owner...........Marvin's role is under-utlized on a winning team. On our poor scoring, losing team, he could easily be a 16 ppg scorer.

It just doesn't sound reasonable or realistic at all to me.

Edited January 5, 2010 by coachx

[MaceCase]

And a "Josh should stop shooting jumpers" thread becomes a "bash Marvin" thread in less than 20 minutes.

[mrhonline]

A team like Minnesota would do it in a heartbeat. In fact, Minnesota is the perfect fit for Marvin, if you ask me. Good post scorers and ball-dominant guards.

They have plenty of money long-term and an opportunity. They're not making any big free agent splashes, which their GM already admitted to...

[coachx]

And a "Josh should stop shooting jumpers" thread becomes a "bash Marvin" thread in less than 20 minutes.

No one is bashing Marvin.

We are simply trying to compare the trade value of Marvin, to that of Josh Smith........and half of any trade are the contracts.........the other half is the player's actual game.

Edited January 5, 2010 by coachx

[spotatl]

A team like Minny would take Marvin- would they give up significant assets on top of that at his salary is the question. In the offseason it was possible to look at Marvin's deal and think the Hawks got him at a bargain. But right now i just can't see how a team would think he is worth MORE than his contract.

[coachx]

A team like Minnesota would do it in a heartbeat. In fact, Minnesota is the perfect fit for Marvin, if you ask me. Good post scorers and ball-dominant guards.

They have plenty of money long-term and an opportunity. They're not making any big free agent splashes, which their GM already admitted to...

What is "it" or should I say who is "it" ? Ryan Gomes ?

Does he actually "fix" anything ? What are his perimeter defensive skills like ?

I was setting my sites on a true 7 footer. Smith has more value to net a true center then does Marvin. Marvin for Gomes just seems like a "make a trade for the heck of it" sort of move.

Edited January 5, 2010 by coachx

[mrhonline]

What is "it" or should I say who is "it" ?

Trade for Marvin Williams. (Sorry).

[Sothron]

A team like Minnesota would do it in a heartbeat. In fact, Minnesota is the perfect fit for Marvin, if you ask me. Good post scorers and ball-dominant guards.

They have plenty of money long-term and an opportunity. They're not making any big free agent splashes, which their GM already admitted to...

But they don't have the center we'd need. Big Al is a PF forced to play C (hello Horford) and Love while a freaking beast is a pure PF.

I've beaten the Kaman drum for three years now, I'd love to see him here. Ditching Marvin would bring a smile to my face but we can't play Smoove at the three. I don't care what anyone says at some point you will have to make jump shots as a small forward. Even Worthy could hit a jump shot. Smoove can't. Any trade for a real center must take into account we can't move Smoove to three. That means he'd have to be the one to go where we could then move Horford to PF his natural position.

I'd like it if we could trade Smoove for Kaman (or Brook Lopez) and then move Marvin for a guy like Caron Butler. It would give us three guys playing their natural positions in the front court. When's the last time we've seen that in Atlanta?

[coachx]

Trade for Marvin Williams. (Sorry).

I realize that.................my question was who do we get back that makes the trade worthy of doing ?

[mrhonline]

I realize that.................my question was who do we get back that makes the trade worthy of doing ?

A similar player with a cheaper contract (Gomes), an expiring contract (Wilkins), and one of the first rounders the Wolves own (not their own pick, of course).

Moving Marvin for a center is problematic salary wise unless you include Pachulia.

[coachx]

But they don't have the center we'd need. Big Al is a PF forced to play C (hello Horford) and Love while a freaking beast is a pure PF.

I've beaten the Kaman drum for three years now, I'd love to see him here. Ditching Marvin would bring a smile to my face but we can't play Smoove at the three. I don't care what anyone says at some point you will have to make jump shots as a small forward. Even Worthy could hit a jump shot. Smoove can't. Any trade for a real center must take into account we can't move Smoove to three. That means he'd have to be the one to go where we could then move Horford to PF his natural position.

I'd like it if we could trade Smoove for Kaman (or Brook Lopez) and then move Marvin for a guy like Caron Butler. It would give us three guys playing their natural positions in the front court. When's the last time we've seen that in Atlanta?

I'm seeing eye to eye with this guy on this.

A natural center, in Kaman, would make Horford a better offensive post up option at PF. I think Horford's improved post game, this season, makes that more true now then ever before. Not to mention that Horford is a better jump shooting PF then is Smoove. With 2 legit post options (Kaman /C and Horford/ PF) a SF who can shoot is essential and we know how Smoove shoots based on his shot index at the top of this thread.

A lateral move that trades Marvin for another middle tier SF really accomplishes nothing in my book. However, getting a true 7 foot center, who is 27, to save Horford from wrestling with Shaq, Big Z, Howard, and Perkins seems like what the Dr. ordered to get us out of the 2nd round in of the playoffs where the half court game is more important then it is in the regular season.

Do we want a team that might win a few more games in the regualr season or one with the best chance to succeed in the playoffs ?

Edited January 5, 2010 by coachx