Joe or Jamal

[benhillboy]

I know Joe is a three-time All-Star but dammit man. He simply cannot take stranglehold of a game like 'Mal can. The fact that 'Mal has posted fiddy 3 times and Joe barely scratched the surface of 40 a few times in their careers tells you all you need to know about scoring prowess. Of course Joe is better all-around when man defense is considered, but as the season progresses, when the heat is on, Jamal just seems more free, more loose, more focused, more of a killer.

How many more times do I have to look at the box score and see Jamal playing about 10 less minutes, but producing scoring and either assisting or boarding numbers on par or surpassing Joe (Jamal had 2 more points on 7 less shots and 12 less minutes against Phoenix.)

Of course no one would bench Joe for Jamal, and having the combination on the floor together creates many problems for opposing Defenses. But as time passes, Jamal is filling the void left by Joe: dribble driving, going to the line (Joe is more than satisfied with 2 attempts), playing and conducting himself with intensity, and simply taking and hitting HUGE shots with overflowing confidence, and his jersey doesn't even have to be tucked in.

People say Joe isn't the superstar who can fill Phillips arena. Of course he isn't. We're looking for dramatics in the wrong place. For true basketball fans, if Josh can lay off the jumpers, our frontcourt (minus you-know-who) is easily worth the price of admission. But Craw Dawg comes up with something every night that leaves you like "Damn! Who else in the league can do that? Who else in the league would even try to do that? Dude is the truth."

Edited January 16, 2010 by benhillboy

[MVP23]

..ehhh I would still rather have Joe. Jamal doesn't come off as a franchise guy to me...neither does Joe, but..

[gsuteke]

Joe

but I can have both :line dance:

[niremetal]

Yeah, because this type of post wasn't predictable after Jamal hits a game-winner.

Robert Horry was the best man on the Spurs at hitting end of game shots. That doesn't mean I'd rather have him than Duncan, Manu, or TP.

[AHF]

Check out the career TS%. JJ is the more efficient scorer in addition to being more prolific. Crawford is enjoying a career season and finally has someone who draws more attention from the defense on the perimeter. Enjoy them both, but I stick with JJ because he is the more complete player and at least Crawford's equal in scoring on their careers (JJ is more consistent - doesn't get as hot or as cold but they are similar in efficiency on the whole over their careers).

[PureGreatness]

Crawford for me. the main difference between him and Joe is that crawford gets that ball makes a move then strikes. MOST of the time Joe gets the ball dribble between his legs for 10 seconds then decides to make a move. When joe decides he is gonna make a quick move he is deadly but he doesnt do that enough. i noticed this before jamal hit that game winner against the suns. Im not saying jamal is a better player but when push comes to shove and we decide that we are going to go into our usual iso offense(which i hate) i would rather give it to jamal.

[EazyRoc]

I think it's obvious that playing with Joe Johnson makes Crawford a better player. You make Crawford the focal point of the opposing teams defense and he'll revert to his GS, CHI, or NY days.

[tonegully]

I think it's obvious that playing with Joe Johnson makes Crawford a better player. You make Crawford the focal point of the opposing teams defense and he'll revert to his GS, CHI, or NY days.

I agree 100 percent

[Popeye]

Also If Joe takes plays off on defensive end (ala Jamal), than he has that much more energy on offensive end... Come on people lets not get ahead here....

[Diesel]

We got our own fire and ice here with Jamal and Joe. But I would call it... Ice and hot ice.

Joe is not the finisher than Jamal is... but Jamal can't carry a team the way that Joe does. The suns game is a testament to how we can beat elite teams. Joe carries the team into the 4th and Jamal takes over and finishes.

I like calling Jamal "the difference" for his 6th man run.

But the truth is that he is the finisher.

So Joe = The Starter.

Jamal = The Finisher.

If we lose Joe to FAcy... then I don't know. I really think Joe likes it here.

[niremetal]

How many more times do I have to look at the box score and see Jamal playing about 10 less minutes, but producing scoring and either assisting or boarding numbers on par or surpassing Joe (Jamal had 2 more points on 7 less shots and 12 less minutes against Phoenix.)

BS. List the other games this year where that has happened. Because other than blowouts where Jamal played more minutes than JJ, I count no more than 5 times that happened this year.

Oh, and Jamal rarely gets double teamed. That kind of makes it easier to get good looks at the basket.

Jamal is a great 2nd option. But look at past years where he was on worse teams and drawing more defensive attention. He consistently scored fewer points on a lower FG% with a worse Ast/TO ratio. Anyone who thinks we should trade JJ and build around Jamal Crawford probably just doesn't like JJ and is looking for an alternative. Based on your past posts, that clearly is the case with you.

Edited January 17, 2010 by niremetal

[JackB1]

Jamal is a better finisher around the rim than Joe is.

Joe is a better all around player than Jamal is.

Jamal plays a little smarter.....seems quicker to decide when and how to attack.

Joe still dribbles too much at times and turns it over too much. I can usually predict a Joe turnover 3 seconds before it happens.

Jamal's is so smoooooooth going to the hoop. His nickname should be "slither" because he is like a snake.

Bottom line......we are damn lucky to have both!!!!!

[exodus]

JJ's numbers would punk Crawfords if JJ didn't face constant double teams. Against one guy JJ can just muscle them inside and shoot that little floater all game long.

JJ is also a far superior defender and gets twice as many rebounds as Crawford.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I guess people don't realize that before those final 10 seconds in the game, Jamal was 4 - 13 FGs, and was about to be blamed, right along with JJ, Woody, Marvin, Smoove, and Bibby, for blowing that game.

Before that play, Crawford had lost the ball when double teamed ( which led to a quick Phoenix score ) . . JJ then took a quick 3 and missed . . and Smoove would've been destroyed by Hawk fans for missing that FT at the end.

Then people would've ripped Woody for not going to Horford more.

And Marvin gets ripped for missing open shots. And Bibby gets ripped for not taking enough shots

And the great bench . . lol . . they were the reason why we couldn't score for those first 4 minutes in the 4th quarter. A unit that had Crawford on the floor, but he couldn't score.

The +/- stats for the game show that Joe Smith was a -14, Evans a -10, even Crawford was a -8 for the game.

We shoot 41% FG and 5-23 3FG ( JJ and Crawford a combined 2 - 13 before Jamal hit the game winner ).

Yet, the game came down to a missed FT that happened to be misshandled by Phoenix, and right into the arms of Crawford for a layup. Then we get another missed FT by Amar'e on the other end to only put them up 2.

And if not for the Suns doubling and tugging JJ's jersey to keep him from possibly attempting a game-tying shot, Crawford doesn't get the ball . . 35 feet from the basket . . with a 7 footer in his face when he shoots the ball after getting 'closer' at 28 feet away.

In other words . . we were damn lucky to beat Phoenix, because we actually didn't play a good game at all. But we fought and clawed as a team the entire way, which enabled us to be in the position to "get lucky".

It was the 3rd game that we've won, when we've lost the Efficiency Differential battle. In games in which the other team had less than a +10 team effifiency differential over us, the Hawks are 3 - 1 ( wins over Phoenix, Boston, and Dallas . . . loss to NY Knicks ).

Edited January 17, 2010 by northcyde

[TruJerz]

I know Joe is a three-time All-Star but dammit man. He simply cannot take stranglehold of a game like 'Mal can. The fact that 'Mal has posted fiddy 3 times and Joe barely scratched the surface of 40 a few times in their careers tells you all you need to know about scoring prowess. Of course Joe is better all-around when man defense is considered, but as the season progresses, when the heat is on, Jamal just seems more free, more loose, more focused, more of a killer.

How many more times do I have to look at the box score and see Jamal playing about 10 less minutes, but producing scoring and either assisting or boarding numbers on par or surpassing Joe (Jamal had 2 more points on 7 less shots and 12 less minutes against Phoenix.)

Of course no one would bench Joe for Jamal, and having the combination on the floor together creates many problems for opposing Defenses. But as time passes, Jamal is filling the void left by Joe: dribble driving, going to the line (Joe is more than satisfied with 2 attempts), playing and conducting himself with intensity, and simply taking and hitting HUGE shots with overflowing confidence, and his jersey doesn't even have to be tucked in.

People say Joe isn't the superstar who can fill Phillips arena. Of course he isn't. We're looking for dramatics in the wrong place. For true basketball fans, if Josh can lay off the jumpers, our frontcourt (minus you-know-who) is easily worth the price of admission. But Craw Dawg comes up with something every night that leaves you like "Damn! Who else in the league can do that? Who else in the league would even try to do that? Dude is the truth."

they're a good tandem. The main difference between the two is Jamal Crawford has more of a killer instinct than Joe. Jamal Crawford has a similar approach to the game as a Kobe, LeBron and Wade. He is always in attack mode. But overall there is no question Joe is the better player. If Joe had the same approach to the game as Crawford he would go from being a good player to being a great player but you just gotta accept Joe for what he is..he's a damn good player and he isnt gonna change his style or personality. But together Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford give the Hawks a good scoring tandem at the end of ball games. You can also throw Bibby in there..he can hit big shots too. Because teams put most of their attention on Joe Johnson, Crawford will get alot of good looks..thats what happened against the Suns. If they key in on Crawford, that would open it up for Johnson

[RedDawg#8]

Craw + Joe = lethal tandem

Craw or Joe alone, not so much

I wish Bibby was a little closer to his prime. A prime Bibby plus those two would be a championship trio if you ask me.

If Joe and Craw re-sign in the future, they could do big things, esp. with Al and Smith reaching All-Star status by next season at the latest. I think those 4 are our championship nucleus, the rest of the team can be phased in or out around them.

[ATLSmith]

Yea... gotta keep both...

I guess if I had to choose I'd go with Joe.. but only because his defense is a little better.