Oh Marvin, Bless his Heart

[RedDawg#8]

Why would we want to "give up" a draft pick, or anything for that matter to trade Marvin who we all know is having his worst statistical season of his career, avg. 10 pts, 5 rebs, for an injured player who cant even start on his team BEHIND a guy that avg's the same numbers as Marvin?

I will admit that I like Marvin and his game. Talk bad about me if you want to. I will admit that his impact has diminished this year, more so on offense, but it is not because Marvin has gotten any worse skill wise. A team will only score so many points in a game, Marv, Smoove, Bibby, Joe, Zaza and Mo's numbers have all decreased a bit this season, but we are winning games. Any excuse that you use for their number droppage can be used for Marvins as well: decreased minutes, Crawford, playing their role, etc

The point is, he can still play the game, there are many times he does much needed things for us on the court, and based on his career and skill set there is more reason to believe his numbers will get better over time, which they have been lately. I just dont see the pressing need to replace him, not when there's no better alternatives we realistically could get in return.

[uga2006]

I considered trading him for about 2.7 seconds

i thought about what sf i'd want in return (NEVER EVER EVER move smoove to sf...that's just horrible)

and because we have lots of guys who need touches, i was thinking we need the following things from the sf:

defense

rebounding

doesn't need many touches (low ego)

when does get the ball, scores efficiently, gets to the line

and i realized those are what marvin does...why would we replace him with a sf that plays worse defense and needs lots of touches with low-efficiency scoring to be happy?

unless you know of a sf that plays better defense/rebounding than marvin and doesn't need many touches and the team is willing to trade that player for marvin

Well said.

Diesel it's also funny that the same people who've always hated Marvin still are the ones who make troll-like posts about the guy every friggin week.

[GameTime]

I considered trading him for about 2.7 seconds

i thought about what sf i'd want in return (NEVER EVER EVER move smoove to sf...that's just horrible)

and because we have lots of guys who need touches, i was thinking we need the following things from the sf:

defense

rebounding

doesn't need many touches (low ego)

when does get the ball, scores efficiently, gets to the line

and i realized those are what marvin does...why would we replace him with a sf that plays worse defense and needs lots of touches with low-efficiency scoring to be happy?

unless you know of a sf that plays better defense/rebounding than marvin and doesn't need many touches and the team is willing to trade that player for marvin

I would do Marvin for Maggette in a heartbeat. I'd much rather have Maggette driving the lane and shooting FT'S than JJ chucking up unnecessary fadeaway contested jumpers.

[DJlaysitup]

I would do Marvin for Maggette in a heartbeat. I'd much rather have Maggette driving the lane and shooting FT'S than JJ chucking up unnecessary fadeaway contested jumpers.

Very good point GT. I will admit that Marvin fits fairly well into our current team chemistry - but we have to also admit that the Hawks are missing one thing on offense - a real driver to the basket. JJ/Craw are good - but the SF position is usually a position that you get that from.

Edited January 18, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[Diesel]

Well said.

Diesel it's also funny that the same people who've always hated Marvin still are the ones who make troll-like posts about the guy every friggin week.

The funny part is that our numbers are growing... Exponentially.

So, it's not the same people.

I smile, everytime I read the opening to a post that starts:

"I used to be on the Marvin bandwagon but now ....."

I told you this Many moons ago, yet you still refuse to accept it. Marvin is never going to be much more than he was 2 seasons ago. That was his max. He doesn't have the love for the game, the workout, or the belief in his own heart that he can be a great player. For that reason, he is confined to being less than Tim Thomas. Last year was a contract year and this year shows that. Marvin is still bungling plays, he's still making terrible shots, he still looks like the keystone cops when he has the ball... but unbelievably, he still has a starting position. Actually, I know why he is still starting. The only reason he's still starting is because our organization is working furiously to make Crawford 6th man of the year. Think about that. He's just a body to put on the floor so that Crawford can win an honor.

Now, let's recap some things I have told you about this whole Marvin deal.

1. I told you that he would be a bust.

2. I told you that Deron and Paul would be better.. even though you that Paul would be ROY; best PG of the decade and Deron would be the second coming of Kidd.

3. I told you that Al Harrington will always be better than Marvin.

4. I told you that Chillz deserved to start over Marvin because he was better.

5. I told you that Flip deserved to start at the 2 and play Joe at the 3 and Marvin off the bench.

6. I told you that Crawford would easily be better than Marvin and our best lineup would be Joe at the 3, Jamal at the 2, and Bibby at the 1.

7. I told you that Marvin was the second coming of Tim Thomas.

Tell me....

Why should you doubt me when it comes to Marvin?

Edited January 18, 2010 by Diesel

[Diesel]

Why would we want to "give up" a draft pick, or anything for that matter to trade Marvin who we all know is having his worst statistical season of his career, avg. 10 pts, 5 rebs, for an injured player who cant even start on his team BEHIND a guy that avg's the same numbers as Marvin?

I will admit that I like Marvin and his game. Talk bad about me if you want to. I will admit that his impact has diminished this year, more so on offense, but it is not because Marvin has gotten any worse skill wise. A team will only score so many points in a game, Marv, Smoove, Bibby, Joe, Zaza and Mo's numbers have all decreased a bit this season, but we are winning games. Any excuse that you use for their number droppage can be used for Marvins as well: decreased minutes, Crawford, playing their role, etc

The point is, he can still play the game, there are many times he does much needed things for us on the court, and based on his career and skill set there is more reason to believe his numbers will get better over time, which they have been lately. I just dont see the pressing need to replace him, not when there's no better alternatives we realistically could get in return.

Marvin is an average, overpaid, overhyped player. We can hold on to him for the next 4 years and blame him for being the reason we never really put it together. Or we can take some chances, gets so low risk, high reward players who may make up the difference.

[uga2006]

Marvin is an average, overpaid, overhyped player. We can hold on to him for the next 4 years and blame him for being the reason we never really put it together. Or we can take some chances, gets so low risk, high reward players who may make up the difference.

So your gonna blame Marvin if we don't win a title???

[Admin]

So your gonna blame Marvin if we don't win a title???

Corrected

[Johnnybravo4]

See my thread on Devin Harris. I submit that Mo Evans can do all of the things that Marvin can do offensively and defensively given minutes. Our second biggest weakness after Marvin is mismatches with either big or fast PG's. Trading Marvin for Harris will still keep our ability to switch and will improve us by eons at the PG position.

[Buzzard]

Marvin is an average, overpaid, overhyped player. We can hold on to him for the next 4 years and blame him for being the reason we never really put it together. Or we can take some chances, gets low risk, high reward players who may make up the difference.

In your opinion, low risk is a injured unrestricted free agent. Would love to see what you consider high risk. Jeez, Portland has three other legitimate players at the wing and they are probably going to let Outlaw walk. A 1st and Marvin for Outlaw is a no brainer for them. His expiring is worth a paltry 4 million and he is injured. We could probably get 2 to 4 million for just our 1st round pick. Your Marvin plan is just get rid of Marvin at all cost these days. There is no thought with you concerning the damage it would do to our team this season and next.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Buzzard

[macdaddy]

What about Caron Butler. I heard the Wiz wanted to move him and he can play. I know he's having a bad year but is on the Wiz for crying out loud. We'd have to send a pick probably.

I think Marvin is who he's always been and a belief that he excelled or would excel at a particular aspect of the game was just wishful thinking. He doesn't had a descernable offensive skill that would lead him to be a big time scorer. I will say that i'm not sure Mo is really able to defend guys like Pierce and Lebron as effectively as Marvin.

[Sothron]

I really can not see how anyone can defend Marvin at this point. He's just like Henderson, played enough to get a deal he didn't deserve then did nothing afterwards. At least Jaywalker got Henderson to admit to him that Henderson had no love for the game and only kept playing to get a paycheck. The sad thing is we already knew Marvin was the same way but they still gave him an extension. Unreal.

[Buzzard]

What about Caron Butler. I heard the Wiz wanted to move him and he can play. I know he's having a bad year but is on the Wiz for crying out loud. We'd have to send a pick probably.

I think Marvin is who he's always been and a belief that he excelled or would excel at a particular aspect of the game was just wishful thinking. He doesn't had a descernable offensive skill that would lead him to be a big time scorer. I will say that i'm not sure Mo is really able to defend guys like Pierce and Lebron as effectively as Marvin.

In order to get the trade to work according to real gm, we would have to include either ZaZa, Evans, or Horf. No way Horf goes so it would probably be Evans since his contract is the shortest. Mario would then be taking Evans minutes off the bench; and we would have to sign another player to a ten day contract.

I like Butlers game but Washington may not want Marvins long term contract. Then again, Marvin is a good character player; and might be exactly what the Wizards are looking for.

[JackB1]

Trade Marvin for a "real" center. Move Al to PF, Smoove to SF, JJ and Bibby at the guards.

I guarantee you Al's stats would exceed Smoove's, if he played PF every night. Anything Smoove

does over Marvin's Stats would be gravy.

Edited January 19, 2010 by JackB1

[macdaddy]

I don't know a lot of 'real' centers available that are even better than Zaza and I know there aren't any better than Al. Smoove at the 3 would equate to a lot of jumpers i think.

[Atlantaholic]

Magette is one of the most selfish and unlikeable players in the NBA. The fact that he has been an absolute beast on offense (seriously a top 10 NBA talent on offense) and still has come off the bench for most of his career should tell you all you need to know about his intangibles and his ability to play defense. I'd rather have Caron Butler, though in all honesty he is not having a much better year than Marvin is having... If we are looking for a better SF in return, I seriously doubt there are any really good options available to us via a Marvin Trade . A proven veteran PG who could split time with Bibby and/or some more depth for our PF and Center position are probably better options. (Move Mo to the starting SF position, and give JJ some more SF minutes, and Craw a few more SG minutes)

[hawks21]

I would do Marvin for Maggette in a heartbeat. I'd much rather have Maggette driving the lane and shooting FT'S than JJ chucking up unnecessary fadeaway contested jumpers.

I don't think this is a NBA record, but Maggette is currently on a streak in which he has gotten to the FT LINE at least 10 TIMES A GAME for NINE GAMES IN A ROW..and counting

.... he made 17-18 FT vs. Cleveland..THIS IS WHAT THE HAWKS NEED IN THEIR LINEUP...

GM Sund needs to make this trade happen...

[hawks21]

Magette is one of the most selfish and unlikeable players in the NBA. The fact that he has been an absolute beast on offense (seriously a top 10 NBA talent on offense) and still has come off the bench for most of his career should tell you all you need to know about his intangibles and his ability to play defense. I'd rather have Caron Butler, though in all honesty he is not having a much better year than Marvin is having... If we are looking for a better SF in return, I seriously doubt there are any really good options available to us via a Marvin Trade . A proven veteran PG who could split time with Bibby and/or some more depth for our PF and Center position are probably better options. (Move Mo to the starting SF position, and give JJ some more SF minutes, and Craw a few more SG minutes)

Caron Butler has a reputation of being selfish as well, but Maggette is better and may be willing to "fit in" and play his role as our new starting small forward...

Maggette can help the Hawks against Cleveland and Orlando specifically with his abiliity to generate offense and get opposing players in foul trouble.

[Admin]

GM Sund needs to make this trade happen...

Just curious but why do some of people refer to Sund as "GM Sund"? Should we call Woodson "Coach Woodson" or JJ "Player Johnson"? I could see it if we had a player that had the same last name as a GM or coach but we don't. And I'm not trying to be rude or anything like that all, just wanted to bring something up that I think about every time I see "GM Sund" and I'd like to hear some thoughts on it.

[Admin]

Regarding Maggette my problems with him in relation to Marvin are:

• Isn't nearly as good of a defender as Marvin (17.6 opponent PER compared to Marvin 14.0 opponent PER at SF)
• 30 years old (Marvin will be 24 this year)
• Awful 3pt shooter (21% this year compared to Marvin 35% this year)
• 3" shorter and 15 lbs lighter than Marvin make him difficult to play significant minutes at PF
• 3 more years after this year at roughly 10 million per in salary (Marvin costs 3 million less next season and less every year following)

What Maggette does have going for him is that he's a prolific scorer who gets to the FT line a lot, although he depends a great deal on his athleticism and at 30 years old how much longer can you count on this level of production? He missed 31 games last year and 50 games in 05-06 although I am not sure what the injury or reason for each season was.