The SF position

[DJlaysitup]

The Hawks are a VERY good team right now...and we are a VERY good team even while getting little out of the 3-spot. That is normally a place where you get some action. You can't have a guy just running the court in that position (you can I guess - but you are missing out).

Diesel always says that the SF position is the easiest one to fill (and I agree with him...to a point). So...understanding that we don't have mega-bucks owners...who is available to get now on the "cheap" who can actually produce in that spot? Forget about trading Marvin.

Is there anybody out there that can produce in that spot that we could get with a bench player trade? Of our bench players their are a couple who are off-limits...obviously Craw...but also Zaza since we need a backup center.

[spotatl]

To rephrase you want to trade some combination of Evans, Teague,. Collins, Morris, and West for an upgrade on Marvin Williams?

If you dont' think that marvin can get it done then he really would have to be the centerpiece of a trade.

[capstone21]

The Hawks are a VERY good team right now...and we are a VERY good team even while getting little out of the 3-spot. That is normally a place where you get some action. You can't have a guy just running the court in that position (you can I guess - but you are missing out).

Diesel always says that the SF position is the easiest one to fill (and I agree with him...to a point). So...understanding that we don't have mega-bucks owners...who is available to get now on the "cheap" who can actually produce in that spot? Forget about trading Marvin.

Is there anybody out there that can produce in that spot that we could get with a bench player trade? Of our bench players their are a couple who are off-limits...obviously Craw...but also Zaza since we need a backup center.

The team is winning and has good chemistry and depth. Marvin is playing his role and so why is there a need to mess with that?

[Gray Mule]

To change the SF player on the Hawks, which is now MW, it will be necessary to trade him to another

team for their SF. If he is better than Marvin, which is obviously the only reason to do the trade, then

Atlanta must sweeten the pot. More players or draft picks to make up the difference.

If, on the other hand, the Hawks want to obtain a talented SF as a back up for MW, or to start and have

MW become the backup SF, then Atlanta must come up with a really sweet deal for someone.

Draft pick plus players. Not players that don't play. Bench guys that can and do log quiet a few minutes.

Some great teams in major markets can reach out and "get" a good player to fill whatever position that

they want to fill. Some players will go, just to play with some few teams. Atlanta isn't there, not yet.

You can bet that whoever we get will cost us - - - Dearly.

We all know that MW is and will always be a bust, no matter what he does. He hasn't become the

super star we thought he would be when we drafted him. Most of all, he is not CP3.

To rid ourselves from this albatross that swings around our neck, to flush him down the proverbal toilet,

never to see him again, would be so pleasing to some. He's not as good as we had hoped. He's not as

bad as some believe either.

:temperature:

[Unforgiven]

The Hawks are a VERY good team right now...and we are a VERY good team even while getting little out of the 3-spot. That is normally a place where you get some action. You can't have a guy just running the court in that position (you can I guess - but you are missing out).

Diesel always says that the SF position is the easiest one to fill (and I agree with him...to a point). So...understanding that we don't have mega-bucks owners...who is available to get now on the "cheap" who can actually produce in that spot? Forget about trading Marvin.

Is there anybody out there that can produce in that spot that we could get with a bench player trade? Of our bench players their are a couple who are off-limits...obviously Craw...but also Zaza since we need a backup center.

Here's your best bet....Marvin and our 1st rounder for Corey Maggette, that will easily make us the team to beat in the NBA along with LA

[Gray Mule]

:write a letter:

Here's a great trade idea. It just came to me as I was reading my reply.

Pick out that super SF that you want the Hawks to have. They're supposedly

cheap and plentiful. This is not just a "Run of the mill" SF. This is one of

those really good ones.

Offer his team MW & JJ for him.

We now have a new SF, we move Crawford to te 2 guard sopt instead of JJ.

Now, wasn't that easy!

:thumbsupsmileyanim:

[Unforgiven]

:write a letter:

Here's a great trade idea. It just came to me as I was reading my reply.

Pick out that super SF that you want the Hawks to have. They're supposedly

cheap and plentiful. This is not just a "Run of the mill" SF. This is one of

those really good ones.

Offer his team MW & JJ for him.

We now have a new SF, we move Crawford to te 2 guard sopt instead of JJ.

Now, wasn't that easy!

:thumbsupsmileyanim:

who are you talking about trading for?

[DJlaysitup]

We all know that MW is and will always be a bust, no matter what he does. He hasn't become the

super star we thought he would be when we drafted him. Most of all, he is not CP3.

To rid ourselves from this albatross that swings around our neck, to flush him down the proverbal toilet,

never to see him again, would be so pleasing to some. He's not as good as we had hoped. He's not as

bad as some believe either.

No offense G-M...but I knew this would happen. I am trying to divorce the argument of whether Marvinn is a bust and simply look at it as "can we get a better SF".

It's just buisness.

Edited January 30, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[mrhonline]

The Hawks are getting league average production from the SF position. Improving it would be nice, but it's far from the biggest problem (e.g., perimeter defense, post defense).

[bird_dirt]

No offense G-M...but I knew this would happen. I am trying to divorce the argument of whether Marvinn is a bust and simply look at it as "can we get a better SF".

It's just buisness.

it would be nice right now to get josh childress back. trade mo evans and pieces in a salary dump, and buy out josh from his contract in greece. give him a week or two the reacclimate to the nba, then start him (which is what he really wanted) and bring marv off the bench. i think it would help marvin to step up his game having chillz there for compitition, something he doesn't really have now (no offence mo).

we still have this guy in our pocket, it's just a matter of bringing him back. he seems to have been forgotten of late.

i have a feeling he'll be back here next year anyway, especially if jj signs somewhere else.

anyone know any specifics with league rules of how im/possible it would be to bring him back mid season?

Edited January 30, 2010 by bird_dirt

[DJlaysitup]

The Hawks are getting league average production from the SF position. Improving it would be nice, but it's far from the biggest problem...

Sorry to dissagree MrH...but it IS a big problem. We aren't getting spit from a position that is normally a production position. I have totally taken Marvin out of my thinking on this. We have an NBDL level SF on a team that could win it all. It HAS to be fixed.

[hawkman]

it would be nice right now to get josh childress back. trade mo evans and pieces in a salary dump, and buy out josh from his contract in greece. give him a week or two the reacclimate to the nba, then start him (which is what he really wanted) and bring marv off the bench. i think it would help marvin to step up his game having chillz there for compitition, something he doesn't really have now (no offence mo).

we still have this guy in our pocket, it's just a matter of bringing him back. he seems to have been forgotten of late.

i have a feeling he'll be back here next year anyway, especially if jj signs somewhere else.

anyone know any specifics with league rules of how im/possible it would be to bring him back mid season?

I wish we could bring Childress back mid season. He would be a PERFECT fit for this team. I think I'm not alone when I say that he could/should start over Marvin if he was to come back. That 5 or 6 mil he wanted looks like nothing compared to what we ended up paying for Marv, especially when you look at Marv's production this season. But I guess hindsight is 20/20.

[DJlaysitup]

If you dont' think that marvin can get it done then he really would have to be the centerpiece of a trade.

It's not just me...why would any other team trade for Marvin? I have totally given up on any Marvin trade..aint gonna happen. So lets just get a better player in there at the SF position and transition Marvin to the bench. Sund just p!ssed away some money...these things happen. At least Marvin can still play (unlike Speedy).

Edited January 30, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[mrhonline]

Sorry to dissagree MrH...but it IS a big problem. We aren't getting spit from a position that is normally a production position. I have totally taken Marvin out of my thinking on this. We have an NBDL level SF on a team that could win it all. It HAS to be fixed.

Based on what metric, DJ?

[Buzzard]

We have two weak positions. Starting PG and SF. I do think Sund is working the phones right now to try and improve one of them. IMO with our recent success, I do not think he is going to risk screwing up our teams chemistry on a low value player. If he cannot make a significant upgrade, Marvin and Bibby are staying put as are all of our best six players.

Just my two cents. It may be next season when one more new player is added to our successful team puzzle.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Buzzard

[niremetal]

We have two weak positions. Starting PG and SF. I do think Sund is working the phones right now to try and improve one of them. IMO with our recent success, I do not think he is going to risk screwing up our teams chemistry on a low value player. If he cannot make a significant upgrade, Marvin and Bibby are staying put as are all of our best six players.

Just my two cents. It may be next season when one more new player is added to our successful team puzzle.

We also need to remember that every additional shot taken by the SF is a shot not taken by someone else. So who gives up shots with the new SF? JJ? Jamal? Josh? Horford?

Marvin helps us out in ways that don't show up on the stat sheet by playing solid defense, creating good spacing (which spreads the floor without even taking a shot), and not letting his ego get in the way. He's not a "do all the little things" guy like Battier, but he also is more of a scoring threat than a Battier. Considering the number of guys we have who need the ball in their hands to do things on offense (JJ, Jamal) and who need more touches as it is (Horford, Josh), it seems bizarre to demand more "production" from yet another player.

Edited January 31, 2010 by niremetal

[Buzzard]

We also need to remember that every additional shot taken by the SF is a shot not taken by someone else. So who gives up shots with the new SF? JJ? Jamal? Josh? Horford?

Marvin helps us out in ways that don't show up on the stat sheet by playing solid defense, creating good spacing (which spreads the floor without even taking a shot), and not letting his ego get in the way. He's not a "do all the little things" guy like Battier, but he also is more of a scoring threat than a Battier. Considering the number of guys we have who need the ball in their hands to do things on offense (JJ, Jamal) and who need more touches as it is (Horford, Josh), it seems bizarre to demand more "production" from yet another player.

I agree 100% that Marvin fits perfectly with our teams chemistry. The obvious fix is a better starting PG who is at least equal to Bibby in passing ability but a better defender. Problem is where is such a PG and how much would he cost us? I like Sessions game; he does not have to score to be happy and he has great size.

But he just signed a new contract this off season so getting salaries to match is a huge problem. Not to mention Minne seems to like him as well as their backup. But he is an expensive backup none the less and may be for the taking at the right price.

But yes PG is our big weakness and we do not have to get a Chris Paul or Deron Williams all world one...just a good distributor and defender. Sounds easy right? Wish it was LMAO

Edited January 31, 2010 by Buzzard

[AHF]

Based on what metric, DJ?

I'll echo this question. Marvin has disappointed me all year but I don't know how his performance is viewed as NBDL level or even close to that level.

[Atlantaholic]

I agree 100% that Marvin fits perfectly with our teams chemistry. The obvious fix is a better starting PG who is at least equal to Bibby in passing ability but a better defender. Problem is where is such a PG and how much would he cost us? I like Sessions game; he does not have to score to be happy and he has great size.

But he just signed a new contract this off season so getting salaries to match is a huge problem. Not to mention Minne seems to like him as well as their backup. But he is an expensive backup none the less and may be for the taking at the right price.

But yes PG is our big weakness and we do not have to get a Chris Paul or Deron Williams all world one...just a good distributor and defender. Sounds easy right? Wish it was LMAO

I actually think shooting ability and defense are more important than passing ability on our system. I mean, with the plethora of Iso's we run it is impossible to have a PG out there who can't knock down a three. (Partly why Teague often times doesn't produce). For me speed is also an asset, and is the thing Bibby lacks the most. As good a fast break team as we are it is pretty strange that most times our fast breaks are started by our forwards... We could probably be even better if we had a lightning quick PG (Teague has shown to be able to do this from time to time) to lead a break with our freak forwards filling the lanes.

*Sigh* If only the freaking Timberwolves hadn't been their usual retarded selves in last years draft we could have had Lawson. Oh well.

[DJlaysitup]

I'll echo this question. Marvin has disappointed me all year but I don't know how his performance is viewed as NBDL level or even close to that level.

Well I actually didn't say Marvin is an NBA-DL level player - only that we are getting NBA-DL output from him many times. I'm trying to get beyond the Marvin/CP3/Deron stuff and simply look at the position...

Edited January 31, 2010 by DJlaysitup