Peachtree Hoops: On Bibby and Teague and the starting lineup controversy that is not

[Hawksquawk]

More photos » Gregory Smith - AP

4 months ago: Charlotte Bobcats guard Dontell Jefferson, right, forces the ball loose from Atlanta Hawks guard Jeff Teague (0) during a drive in the fourth quarter of an NBA preseason basketball game at Philips Arena, Monday, Oct. 12, 2009, in Atlanta. Teague had 17 points for the night and lead the Hawks to a 107-90 win. (AP Photo/Gregory Smith)

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Larry over at HawksStr8Talk called me out for my absolute anti-stance over the notion of Jeff Teague starting. He demanded a response, and I aim to please. So here are my thoughts on why Mike Bibby should remain the starter. (This of course is a hypothetical argument because Mike Woodson would probably cut off both thumbs before taking Bibby out of the starting five for Teague.)

Mike Bibby sets up the offense

It may not be all clear and easy to see, but Bibby does make sure people are where they are suppose to be on the court. I know this because I watch Teague. Almost once a game, I have seen Horford or Crawford waive Teague in the direction he is suppose to be. He just does not have the offense down pat. In second or third quarter burns, those offensive sets might not be as important. That spacing not quite as relevant. To start the game though, Joe Johnson is going to curl off a screen, both bigs are going to get a few touches down low, and Bibby is going to hit a baseline jumper. Offensive sets are run. And we may not like those sets. We may find them unimaginative, but they are the sets, and Teague has shown little ability to get the Hawks into them.

The offense is not set up for a slashing and dishing point guard. It can work because that kind of offense always works, but to start out the game, Bibby is a better fit to run the actual offense. It is not ignoring the evil that it is Woody's offense, it is dealing with the reality of the situation. You can't just say "it shouldn't be that way" because it is that way. Next year, hopefully a different story.

Change of pace

Used well, Teague can come off the bench and provide a spark. He can push the pace. He can change the tempo. He can get open shots for guys that cannot create as easily as the starters. Mike Bibby can do none of those things. If Bibby is in with say Crawford, Mo, Josh Smith, and Zaza, one of the other four guys is going to have to create for Bibby to be useful on offense. I don't want Zaza or Joe Smith or Mo or really any bench guy but Crawford to go one on one to create their own shot or shots for others. Basically what is the better scenario, watching Mo Evans or Zaza dribble around trying to create separation or have them shoot open looks? With Bibby in, you are going to see Mo and Zaza creating on their own. With Teague in, you are going to see them catch and shoot.

 

The problem

Mike Bibby is in a shooting slump. It is not like he got old and stopped driving the ball. Well he did, but that was about four years ago. No, Bibby is just not hitting open jumpers as much as he has in the past. It may be partly age, but I think it is more a slump.

On the other side of things, Jeff Teague is a rookie. He has proved nothing. Most of that is Woody's fault, but putting him into the starting lineup at this point is a pretty big unknown. And that is just on the basketball court. Off the court, benching one of your veteran's can have real effects on the team's chemistry on and off the court. Without any real sense of what would happen at all, I would much rather Teague get minutes with the first team in other parts of the game first. So far this season, he has had next to zero.

Finally, in the last five loses, the Hawks have only trailed twice after the first quarter and once by any kind of large figure (10 points against Dallas). Rarely has the first period been an issue. It has been the fourth quarter. Or the third quarter. Or the second quarter.

Risk reward

If you asked 100 people what was a weakness for the Hawks, I think most of those 100 would say Mike Bibby in their top five answers. Yet if you asked the same 100 people how to make the Hawks better, I don't think start Jeff Teague starting would be in their top five answers. The two questions don't dictate correlating answers because Stephen Curry is not sitting on the bench, an unknown is. And for the Hawks, it is known solutions that need to be implemented. More shots for the front court, greater emphasis on rebounding, better ball movement, and more decisive moves into and during isolations.

Jeff Teague might make the Hawks better as a starter, but I can honestly say I have no idea. No one does. Why clamor for a change that is neither proven nor statistically backed up? The perspective is to ignore Jeff Teague's faults as rookie issues and lament over Mike Bibby's faults as unalterable truths. But the fact is, Jeff Teague is not that good yet. He is just not. And one of the reasons the Hawks offense remains in the top ten in efficiency is turnovers. Teague will not help keep Atlanta there. The risk/reward is far too great a gap because, in a best case scenario, Jeff Teague as a rookie is not going to win you multiple more games than Mike Bibby (if we had started Teague would we really be on pace for 60 wins?). Drastic changes to continuity though can lose you multiple games.

The Hawks are a very good team, and at this point in the season, offensive or defensive philosophies are not going to be altered, but subtle changes can occur, should occur. I would love to see Jeff Teague in new and different ways, but putting him into the starting lineup does not stop avoid iso Joe or Jamal, it encourages it. It does not help the Hawks jump shooting, it hurts it.

Next year, with a full summer working with the first team, a year of NBA ball under his belt, and Mike Bibby switching roles and not getting demoted roles, I say yes, give me Teague in the starting lineup. But right now, switching point guard starters is fixing a flat tire while your car is on fire and you have a fire extinguisher in your hand. And all you have is doughnut spare anyway.

Go Hawks!

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[Admin]

Thoughts?

[AHF]

I don't think Teague should be starting but he should have been getting consistent time all season and especially once Bibby's play fell off a cliff.

[TheTruth]

I don't think Teague should be starting but he should have been getting consistent time all season and especially once Bibby's play fell off a cliff.

I have held this exact same stance and will not waver from it. We need to know whether Teague can be a contributor for us next year or not. We will never find that out if he keeps averaging less than 10 minutes a game--with many of those games ending in DNPs.

[Admin]

I have held this exact same stance and will not waver from it. We need to know whether Teague can be a contributor for us next year or not. We will never find that out if he keeps averaging less than 10 minutes a game--with many of those games ending in DNPs.

I think that we know simply because Woody says that he will be a player in this league and he doesn't just endorse rookies like that. I'd like to see Teague get more playing time too but I'm not going to worry about it too much in his rookie season.

[TheTruth]

See, that's the thing Dolfan. Woodson SAYS he thinks he will be a player in this league, and DOES speak highly of him, but that does NOT translate to minutes on the court.

The bottom line is that we are playing a backup as a starter now. We have to skate by with it this season, but this cannot go on for next year. And with Teague playing so few minutes, it looks like it just might.

[Admin]

See, that's the thing Dolfan. Woodson SAYS he thinks he will be a player in this league, and DOES speak highly of him, but that does NOT translate to minutes on the court.

The bottom line is that we are playing a backup as a starter now. We have to skate by with it this season, but this cannot go on for next year. And with Teague playing so few minutes, it looks like it just might.

I think that he can say that Teague will be a player and not have him play regular or meaningful minutes as a rookie, even though I wish that weren't the case. There are plenty of examples of players that don't get much time and don't do much in their rookie seasons that end up being excellent players and for me I just can't see Woody going out on a limb and talking Teague up so much if he didn't honestly believe in him and his plan to develop him, whether we agree with that plan or not.

I certainly agree about next year and whether Teague is ready or not I'm not comfortable seeing Bibby starting next season. I pray that Teague will be ready to go though and I have a feeling that his game will improve drastically from season 1 to season 2 and even though we aren't seeing him play a lot right now I do think that we're seeing some improvement in his confidence and his play making lately. If the only things that he has to learn are where to position himself in the offense and where his teammates are supposed to be positioned then I think he'll be fine because he's shown that he knows how to protect the ball, he's got good passing vision, and he can play defense. All qualities that should be getting him more PT now than he is, but even with that not being the case they are good signs for the future.

[TruJerz]

Bibby should start but Teague should get more minutes than he does..maybe 10-15 a night especially against the quicker guards. Bibby has been in a shooting slump for a while but I think he's starting to get it back now..I see him knocking down some more shots than before..hopefully he gets it going in time for the playoffs when the team will really need it.

As for Teague, its tough because he knows he would probably be playing more on other teams but I think he should be happy that he will be going to the playoffs and has an opportunity to be on a contending team. Also he gets to learn from the veterans in front of him as well. Maybe next year he could probably start and move Bibby to the bench but now is not the time..he hasnt gotten starter minutes all season and is still learning the NBA game..his defense has been surprising..i didnt know he can steal and especially block this well..he's definitely been a defensive spark for the team

Edited March 3, 2010 by TruJerz

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Well written, objective, and right on the money. Bibby's BBIQ alone almost requires that he still be the starter. No way I want a rookie leading this starting lineup in the playoffs.

It's funny though. Bibby is in a major slump, but still a better offensive option than Teague, who has major trouble finishing in traffic and making midrange jumpshots.

Recently, Woody is playing this exactly right. He starts Bibby . . . gets Teague in at the end of the 1st . . . if the game is still somewhat under control, he leaves Teague in to start the 2nd . . . and gets Bibby back in midway through the 2nd to possibly finish the half.

Once the 2nd half starts, the rotation is shortened as to allow Crawford to play the 1 in place of Bibby midway through the 3rd . . if we have control of the game, Teague may filter back in . . if not, Crawford stays at the 1. Bibby may or may not play in the 4th.

That's the right way to rotate them for the rest of the season.

[Diesel]

I don't believe Teague is ready to start, but I am pleased that Woody has saw fit to let the young fella play in the last few games. He's not bad. He has hit his rook wall and now he's just learning.

[tonegully]

I have held this exact same stance and will not waver from it. We need to know whether Teague can be a contributor for us next year or not. We will never find that out if he keeps averaging less than 10 minutes a game--with many of those games ending in DNPs.

Dang, how come we can see this but Woody doesn't? You dont have to start him but since we Pay this man we need to Play this man.

[NineOhTheRino]

I think that we know simply because Woody says that he will be a player in this league and he doesn't just endorse rookies like that. I'd like to see Teague get more playing time too but I'm not going to worry about it too much in his rookie season.

I about 95% sure Woody said the same about ACL4

[Admin]

I about 95% sure Woody said the same about ACL4

I don't believe that he did but I'm happy to eat those words if you can find where he said it.

[AHF]

You can certainly see some very positive quotes from Woodson that, if taken at face value, seem to indicate he thought Law was going to make it in the league. Here are a few I pulled real quickly:

"He knows how to run a team," Woodson says, "and that's the highest praise I can give a young point guard. He's a winner who is going to help us win."

"Acie Law is going to play minutes for us," Woodson said.

"It's a learning curve for any young guy as a point guard. It's the toughest position on the floor. I just think start or come off the bench, he's going to play. He does a lot of good things when he's on the floor."

"He's done exactly what I'm looking for," Woodson said. "He's orchestrating things out on the floor, and that started a week ago before we even got out here. He knows how to run a team. And that's the highest praise I can give a young point guard."

"I think the sky is the limit for him because he's willing to put forth the effort, he's very good about taking coaching, and he's going to get better," Woodson said.