The 20 . . 4 . . and 4 Club

[TheNorthCydeRises]

There have been 10 guys who have averaged a combined 20 ppg - 4 rebounds - and 4 assists over the last 5 seasons ( or at least during their entire career, if they haven't played 5 seasons yet ).

The elite class in this group, of course, are the Big 3 in the league ( Kobe, Lebron, Wade ). They can actually say that they've averaged 25 - 4 - 4 per game. Gilbert Arenas can say that too, although he is by far less efficient player in this group.

The reason people think Tyreke Evans is going to be special ( and why Kevin Martin immediately became expendable ), was that he's already putting up 20 - 4 - 4 numbers in his rookie year. He's actually very close to being a 20 - 5 - 5 player.

Tracy McGrady makes this list, but he's shot a very inefficient 41.7% FG combined in the past 5 seasons.

But like I said, only 10 players in the league make this list. And here they are, sorted according to PPG:

THE ELITE

1) Kobe Bryant: 30 ppg - 5.6 rebs - 5.0 asst

2) Lebron James: 29.4 ppg - 7.3 rebs - 7.1 asst ( the modern day Oscar Robertson )

3) Dwyane Wade: 29.4 ppg - 4.9 rebs - 7 asst

THE "SHOULD BE ELITE" IF HE WASN'T AN IDIOT ON AND OFF THE COURT

4) Gilbert Arenas: 27.1 ppg - 4 rebs - 6.2 asst ( lost almost a full 2 years to injury though )

THE "ALMOST ELITE" BUT LACK A FEW THINGS THE ELITE GUYS HAVE

5) Paul Pierce: 22 ppg - 4.9 rebs - 5.6 asst

6) Vince Carter: 21.9 ppg - 5.5 rebs - 4.5 asst

7) Joe Johnson: 21.8 ppg - 4.4 rebs - 5.5 asst

THE "COULD'VE BEEN EITE" IF HE WASN'T SO BRITTLE AND TOOK SUCH BAD SHOTS

8) Tracy McGrady: 21.5 ppg - 5.2 rebs - 5.5 asst

THE POSSIBLE ELITE IN 3 - 5 YEARS

9) Tyreke Evans: 20.3 ppg - 4.9 rebs - 5.4 asst

10) Brandon Roy: 20.2 ppg - 4.6 rebs - 5 asst

That's it. There's your modern day 20 - 4 - 4 club.

To see the entire list for yourself, click here ( I reduced the link from basketball-reference.com . . . to a tinyurl link ):

http://tinyurl.com/ykt9dky

[TheNorthCydeRises]

One more thing. When you talk about putting up 20 - 4 - 4 in consecutive seasons, only 5 of these guys have done that for the past 4 consecutive seasons.

Kobe

Lebron

Wade

Vince

and Joe Johnson

. . . Kobe, Lebron, Wade and JJ will do it again in 09 - 10.

Kobe, Lebron, Wade and Monta Ellis will all be 25 - 4 - 4 members.

Joe Johnson, Tyreke Evans, and Brandon Roy will make the 20 - 4 - 4 club.

Gilbert Arenas and Chris Paul, who saw their seasons cut short, will also make the 20 - 4 - 4 club this season.

Vince and Pierce won't make the 20 - 4 - 4 club this season.

So for this year, only 9 guys can say that they did this for the entire season.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL . . . it's amazing that when you bring up just how good JJ is, compared to some of the other guys who are routinely viewed as being better than him, that this board goes silent. Like you all didn't know this or something? Or just didn't realize it.

[niremetal]

LOL . . . it's amazing that when you bring up just how good JJ is, compared to some of the other guys who are routinely viewed as being better than him, that this board goes silent. Like you all didn't know this or something? Or just didn't realize it.

Dude, you posted this like an hour ago. Chill out.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Dude, you posted this like an hour ago. Chill out.

LOL @ chill out. It's pretty much known that about half of this fan base either think JJ is overrated, or simply don't like the dude or his style of play. So whenever someone brings up something positive about the guy, people are less reluctant to give him props.

It's all good though. I posted the exact same post on the ajc board, with just a slightly better reaction.

[mrhonline]

What you posted implies JJ is among the top10 wings in the NBA. I doubt you'd find the more credible posters disagreeing with that notion if you posted it in isolation from this thread.

In other words, there's not much to add. You're right, and few will deny it.

[coachx]

JJ is definately a top 10 wing in the league. Hard to argue other wise. He will only be 29 next year. That is 3 peak years left for him..............in year #4 JJ could remain at or near his peak as well. I personally hope he stays for a while. You never hear a peep of trouble about him off the court either.

1. James

2. Kobe

3. Anthony

4. Wade

5. Durant

Those are the only wings you could say are better then JJ without much arguement.

JJ is probably the 3rd best SG in the league this year. He and Roy are very close but JJ's durability breaks the tie in my mind.

Edited March 4, 2010 by coachx

[drzachary]

What you posted implies JJ is among the top10 wings in the NBA. I doubt you'd find the more credible posters disagreeing with that notion if you posted it in isolation from this thread.

In other words, there's not much to add. You're right, and few will deny it.

Having a top ten wing in the NBA is nice, and it's what we have.. but we need more than that. We need a top ten player in the NBA. Or a top 5. The guys who win it all often have those.

[coachx]

Having a top ten wing in the NBA is nice, and it's what we have.. but we need more than that. We need a top ten player in the NBA. Or a top 5. The guys who win it all often have those.

and we get that guy how ?

[Admin]

I don't think you'll find many here who don't agree with what those stats show but I think that most of the more dedicated Hawks fans probably knew that from hearing things like that mentioned during games so it's not as big of a shock as something like I heard the other night in regard to Josh Smith being the shortest player averaging x amount of blocks and the tallest player averaging x amount of steals or something like that. To me that's a pretty obscure stat that made me think about how versatile he is and how we take that for granted and yeah we probably take JJ for granted but when you talk about 20, 4, and 4 it doesn't seem like such a surprise to me. Maybe that's just me though.

On the other hand we as a group of fans do seem to be more active in posting about negative things and if you had posted something negative about JJ I'm sure we'd have many more replies. That's probably true amongst the hardcore fans of all teams though.

[Diesel]

There have been 10 guys who have averaged a combined 20 ppg - 4 rebounds - and 4 assists over the last 5 seasons ( or at least during their entire career, if they haven't played 5 seasons yet ).

The elite class in this group, of course, are the Big 3 in the league ( Kobe, Lebron, Wade ). They can actually say that they've averaged 25 - 4 - 4 per game. Gilbert Arenas can say that too, although he is by far less efficient player in this group.

The reason people think Tyreke Evans is going to be special ( and why Kevin Martin immediately became expendable ), was that he's already putting up 20 - 4 - 4 numbers in his rookie year. He's actually very close to being a 20 - 5 - 5 player.

Tracy McGrady makes this list, but he's shot a very inefficient 41.7% FG combined in the past 5 seasons.

But like I said, only 10 players in the league make this list. And here they are, sorted according to PPG:

THE ELITE

1) Kobe Bryant: 30 ppg - 5.6 rebs - 5.0 asst

2) Lebron James: 29.4 ppg - 7.3 rebs - 7.1 asst ( the modern day Oscar Robertson )

3) Dwyane Wade: 29.4 ppg - 4.9 rebs - 7 asst

THE "SHOULD BE ELITE" IF HE WASN'T AN IDIOT ON AND OFF THE COURT

4) Gilbert Arenas: 27.1 ppg - 4 rebs - 6.2 asst ( lost almost a full 2 years to injury though )

THE "ALMOST ELITE" BUT LACK A FEW THINGS THE ELITE GUYS HAVE

5) Paul Pierce: 22 ppg - 4.9 rebs - 5.6 asst

6) Vince Carter: 21.9 ppg - 5.5 rebs - 4.5 asst

7) Joe Johnson: 21.8 ppg - 4.4 rebs - 5.5 asst

THE "COULD'VE BEEN EITE" IF HE WASN'T SO BRITTLE AND TOOK SUCH BAD SHOTS

8) Tracy McGrady: 21.5 ppg - 5.2 rebs - 5.5 asst

THE POSSIBLE ELITE IN 3 - 5 YEARS

9) Tyreke Evans: 20.3 ppg - 4.9 rebs - 5.4 asst

10) Brandon Roy: 20.2 ppg - 4.6 rebs - 5 asst

That's it. There's your modern day 20 - 4 - 4 club.

To see the entire list for yourself, click here ( I reduced the link from basketball-reference.com . . . to a tinyurl link ):

http://tinyurl.com/ykt9dky

Where does Durant fit?

[Gray Mule]

Being elected as starter in the all star game is a popularity contest by fans, not an indication of who

is the best player - - It's just who I like o watch the best. When AI went on the roster as a starter, could

there be any doubt? Although he didn't play, it was his position to take.

Hawks sent two players this year and there should have been room for a third.

This was not a popularity contest. These are the players that the NBA believes are their best.

Who are we to argue with that. These people know.

If there was a better player in the Eastern Division of the NBA, do any of you believe that they would

be passed over and these Atlanta Hawks taken?

As good as JJ is, he's still not perfect. He can improve! Imagine an improved JJ on our roster.

:vacation1:

[TruJerz]

I think Brandon Roy is up there with JJ and Pierce IMO..that guy can play ball and doesnt have a real weakness either

And we all know JJ can play, I just wish he would get to the line more which means he should go strong to the rim more often like LeBron, Kobe, Wade, ect.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Where does Durant fit?

He doesn't. He doesn't have the 4 assists per game yet to be put in this particular group.

Durant is more of the pure scorer/rebounder type, in the mold of Dirk and Melo. Or if you were to go historical, more like Alex English, Dominique, and George Gervin.

Still elite, just a different type of elite.

[Diesel]

He doesn't. He doesn't have the 4 assists per game yet to be put in this particular group.

Durant is more of the pure scorer/rebounder type, in the mold of Dirk and Melo. Or if you were to go historical, more like Alex English, Dominique, and George Gervin.

Still elite, just a different type of elite.

How bout KG.

He's not doing it now, but his career average has to be bout that.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

How bout KG.

He's not doing it now, but his career average has to be bout that.

I tell you what I'll do Diesel. Since I did this in a 5 year increment, I'll go back throughout the history of the NBA in 5 year increments, and see who all did this. I'll post the link so that you can view it for yourself. Since there is no record of anybody doing this before 1960, I'll start there.

1960 - 65: 5 players ( 4 in Hall of Fame )

http://tinyurl.com/ykb3rkb

1965 - 70: 15 players

http://tinyurl.com/ydfw22s

1970 - 75: 11 players

http://tinyurl.com/ya5xvxe

1975 - 80: 6 players

http://tinyurl.com/y86wbdm

1980 - 85: 3 players ( one glaring omission, because he barely missed scoring 20 ppg . . can you guess before looking? )

http://tinyurl.com/yf2odeo

1985 - 90: 6 players

http://tinyurl.com/yh48tcm

1990 - 95: 7 players ( one may be a surprise . . HINT: He's a former Hawk, but didn't play for us during this time )

http://tinyurl.com/yh5t7ld

1995 - 2000: 7 players

http://tinyurl.com/ygv9fto

2000 - 05: 14 players ( yes . . . KG is in this group )

http://tinyurl.com/ykq6kso

[Diesel]

I tell you what I'll do Diesel. Since I did this in a 5 year increment, I'll go back throughout the history of the NBA in 5 year increments, and see who all did this. I'll post the link so that you can view it for yourself. Since there is no record of anybody doing this before 1960, I'll start there.

1960 - 65: 5 players ( 4 in Hall of Fame )

http://tinyurl.com/ykb3rkb

1965 - 70: 15 players

http://tinyurl.com/ydfw22s

1970 - 75: 11 players

http://tinyurl.com/ya5xvxe

1975 - 80: 6 players

http://tinyurl.com/y86wbdm

1980 - 85: 3 players ( one glaring omission, because he barely missed scoring 20 ppg . . can you guess before looking? )

http://tinyurl.com/yf2odeo

1985 - 90: 6 players

http://tinyurl.com/yh48tcm

1990 - 95: 7 players ( one may be a surprise . . HINT: He's a former Hawk, but didn't play for us during this time )

http://tinyurl.com/yh5t7ld

1995 - 2000: 7 players

http://tinyurl.com/ygv9fto

2000 - 05: 14 players ( yes . . . KG is in this group )

http://tinyurl.com/ykq6kso

80-85 glaring omission...

Letme guess.

Magic Johnson?

Dominique?

So are the numbers saying that Nique couldn't get 4 assist?

How bout doc Rivers? I thought Doc would make the list.

It's interesting that as time went on, more players made the list.

[AHF]

So are the numbers saying that Nique couldn't get 4 assist?

His career high was 3.8 apg. Career average was 2.5 apg.

Magic Johnson

Magic averaged 20/4/4 3 out of 4 years from 1987 - 1990 but never 20 ppg before 1986-87.

How bout doc Rivers? I thought Doc would make the list.

His career high was 15.2 ppg and his average was 10.9 ppg.

It's interesting that as time went on, more players made the list.

I agree - particularly when you consider that the pace of play slowed down after the 1980s.

[Diesel]

I agree - particularly when you consider that the pace of play slowed down after the 1980s.

The other thing that I noted is that not all the guys who are on the list are Hall of famers.

If you can sustain 20, 4, and 4 for some segment of your career (longer than 3 years) maybe you should get that consideration.

Like TMac.

Will Tmac be a Hall of famer??

[SneakerKing33]

Brandon Roy is better than Joe Johnson.