When are Joe and Woody Going to Realize?

[JackB1]

When are Joe and Woody going to realize that Joes is a horrible choice for the last shot of the game?

I would almost rather see Zaza taking the shot than Joe. Joe is great during the rest of the game, but

I have been watching the Hawks almost every game for the past 3 years and Joe has hit maybe 10%

of these shots before the buzzer, He was almost triple teamed by the time he got off that low percentage

floater last night and should have passed the ball. The fact that he had almost the entire Bucks team

converging on him tells me someone else was wide open. This is what separates Joe from the elite

players of the NBA. Even Lebron will pass to the open man on the last shot if he doesn't have a good

shot. Joe will force it up and rarely makes those shots he forces.

Please Woody....stop relying on Joe for the last shot!!!! You have 4 other better options on the floor.

[spotatl]

I think that Joe is the right guy to initiate the play- but once he draws a double he needs to find the open man rather than trying to score through a double.

[jhay610]

I would almost rather see Zaza taking the shot than Joe.

I can't comprehend this statement. Does not compute.

[macdaddy]

I hear what your saying I even in the spurs game i felt like Joe held the ball too long at times. But i'll take a 5 foot floater from Joe to win the game any day. I would have been more upset if it was a contested jumper.

[JackB1]

I hear what your saying I even in the spurs game i felt like Joe held the ball too long at times. But i'll take a 5 foot floater from Joe to win the game any day. I would have been more upset if it was a contested jumper.

Joe is just not "clutch" and he can't seem to accept it. I wish there was a way to see the STATS on shots with just a few secs left in the game. I would bet my life that Joe's % would be less than 20% on those shots.

Joe is just not good when he "forces" anything. If you draw 4 men to you, pass the ball for crying out loud.

[spotatl]

I wish there was a way to see the STATS on shots with just a few secs left in the game. I would bet my life that Joe's % would be less than 20% on those shots.

I'll take that bet. This isn't with a few seconds left- but its with 5 minutes left and overtime of close games. http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM

Edited March 23, 2010 by spotatl

[jhay610]

I'll take that bet. This isn't with a few seconds left- but its with 5 minutes left and overtime of close games. http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM

Unfortunately that page hasn't been updated since December 2009 so the data set is less than half the season.

I do want to make it clear that either way Jack should not feel compelled to kill himself over this.

Edited March 23, 2010 by jhay610

[AHF]

Here is JJ's shooting % based on time on the clock:

0-10 sec .542 efg%

11-15 sec .491 efg%

16-20 sec .490 efg%

21-24 sec:.471 efg%

http://www.82games.com/0910/09ATL5.HTM

Jamal's #s:

0-10 sec .500 efg%

11-15 sec .512 efg%

16-20 sec .556 efg%

21-24 sec:.538 efg%

http://www.82games.com/0910/09ATL3.HTM

Here are Kobe's #s:

0-10 sec .533 efg%

11-15 sec .433 efg%

16-20 sec .484 efg%

21-24 sec: .482 efg% (up from.378 efg% the prior year)

http://www.82games.com/0910/09LAL5.HTM

Edited March 23, 2010 by AHF

[Crank]

Here is JJ's shooting % based on time on the clock:

0-10 sec .542 efg%

11-15 sec .491 efg%

16-20 sec .490 efg%

21-24 sec:.471 efg%

http://www.82games.com/0910/09ATL5.HTM

Jamal's #s:

0-10 sec .500 efg%

11-15 sec .512 efg%

16-20 sec .556 efg%

21-24 sec:.538 efg%

http://www.82games.com/0910/09ATL3.HTM

Here are Kobe's #s:

0-10 sec .533 efg%

11-15 sec .433 efg%

16-20 sec .484 efg%

21-24 sec: .482 efg% (up from.378 efg% the prior year)

http://www.82games.com/0910/09LAL5.HTM

so jamal >>>>>Joe >>>>>>>>>>Kobe ?

I laughed out loud as I typed that

[JackB1]

You guys are missing the point.....which is......Joe is terrible at taking the LAST SHOT of the game. I have seen him miss those shots more than make them over the past 3 years.

[spotatl]

I have seen him miss those shots more than make them over the past 3 years

Thats a whole lot different than saying he has missed 4 for every one he has made.

[buckeye242424]

You guys are missing the point.....which is......Joe is terrible at taking the LAST SHOT of the game. I have seen him miss those shots more than make them over the past 3 years.

Well, of course he's going to miss more last second shots than he's going to make. I think you would find that true of most NBA stars who are asked to come through in the clutch. Making a buzzer beater doesn't happen everyday. I saw JJ drill a near impossible shot last week to win a game, so I'm perfectly fine with him having the ball with the game on the line.

[spotatl]

I seem to recall that league wide the number was around .300 on last second shots.

[Crank]

You guys are missing the point.....which is......Joe is terrible at taking the LAST SHOT of the game. I have seen him miss those shots more than make them over the past 3 years.

Joe can make those shots and I want him taking those shots what I dont like is this beating our heads against a wall every time we convince ourselves that expecting Joe to make 7-9 shots in a row is a good thing for this team . The thing about the treat one they know when to take over but Joe seems to always start his hero bid about 5 minutes too early and then fizzles in the end . How many times does it need to fail before we adjust ? We need everyone contributing because we dont have one player that carry us on the road for the entire 4th quarter so we gotta do it as a team .

[buckeye242424]

Joe can make those shots and I want him taking those shots what I dont like is this beating our heads against a wall every time we convince ourselves that expecting Joe to make 7-9 shots in a row is a good thing for this team . The thing about the treat one they know when to take over but Joe seems to always start his hero bid about 5 minutes too early and then fizzles in the end . How many times does it need to fail before we adjust ? We need everyone contributing because we dont have one player that carry us on the road for the entire 4th quarter so we gotta do it as a team .

That's a coaching issue. It's the reality of Woody's tenure at the offensive end. Personally, I've become numb to it anymore after this year. We've been on National TV enough that even people in Ohio have seen the Hawks plenty to make comments to me at work (cause they see my Hawks stuff in my office) about our selfish play....I'm so sick of telling people we're really not selfish, JJ inparticular, it's our offense!!!!

[spotatl]

The Hawks are tied with Phoenix as far as assist rate goes.

Edited March 23, 2010 by spotatl

[AHF]

so jamal >>>>>Joe >>>>>>>>>>Kobe ?

I laughed out loud as I typed that

That ignores FTs which are a huge part of offensive efficiency. Kobe goes to the line much more than either of those guys. A foul on Kobe does not improve his efg%. So in terms of actually making shots in the last few seconds, this season it is Jamal > Kobe > Joe

Last year it was, Crawford > JJ > Kobe

[niremetal]

I'll take that bet. This isn't with a few seconds left- but its with 5 minutes left and overtime of close games. http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM

Here's the stats for potential game-winners, though it hasn't been updated in about a year:

http://www.82games.com/random12.htm

According to that, JJ shoots .267 on those shots...which sounds terrible until you consider that Craw shoots .256 and Kobe shoots .250. "Mr. Big Shot" Billups shoots .162.

There clearly is not a strong link between players perceived as "clutch" and players shooting a high percentage on gamewinners, unless you buy that Eddy Curry is one of the best clutch players in recent NBA history. The stats are skewed by the fact that potential game-winners are almost always jumpers, and contested jumpers at that. With rare exception, big men typically don't get the ball in those situations unless it's an offensive rebound (and those put-backs would explain why centers and PFs seem to shoot absurdly high percentages in those situations).

In any case, this entire thread is ridiculous. The JJ hate around Hawksquawk is fast approaching the level of the AJC blog.

Edited March 24, 2010 by niremetal

[Atlantaholic]

It's natural that every important player will shoot a low percentage on game winning shots. Those are usually the most tightly defended plays (defense doesn't even need to worry about rebounding) and many times they come with offensive team having a lot less than the full shot clock. The odds are always heavily favoring the team with the 1 point lead in those situations.

[Atlantaholic]

JJ is a very, very good player. The problem is people want him to be an MVP candidate type player and that is just a totally unrealistic and unwarranted expectation.