Al was on fire yesterday! - Need to run more plays for him

[exodus]

To me the long jumper is one of the worst shots in all of basketball. To me there are not many players in the league who can make enough from there that I would have it as a main option on offense. If I am the other team then I'd be thrilled to let Horford shoot from out there. He'll have games like against Indiana where he goes 6 for 7 but I think the odds are strongly with the defense. You don't get many offensive rebounds (particularly with your center 18 feet away from the basket and the inside isn't open at all to hit cutters.

Horford rarely shoots a spot up jumper from more than 18 feet out. it isn't like it is taking too many either. Only 50% of his shot attempts are jumpers.

53% of Amare's attempts are jumpers.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09PHO11.HTM

59% of Duncan's attempts are jumpers.

http://www.82games.com/0910/09SAS15.HTM

50% of Boozer's shots are jumpers.

There is nothing wrong with big men taking midrange jumpers. Horford's problem is that he frequently tries to play with his back to the basket which he sucks at. Unless he has a smaller man against him there is no reason for him to try to back someone down. It doesn't work.

Edited March 29, 2010 by exodus

[spotatl]

You can think there is nothing wrong with it- but if I am the Hawks opponents I am Thrilled to let Horford take them all day long. If he is making under 50% I think thats a big win for the defense. I only want him taking that shot as the shotclock runs down and the Hawks are out of better options. But in that situation I do think its a fine option.

[exodus]

You can think there is nothing wrong with it- but if I am the Hawks opponents I am Thrilled to let Horford take them all day long. If he is making under 50% I think thats a big win for the defense. I only want him taking that shot as the shotclock runs down and the Hawks are out of better options. But in that situation I do think its a fine option.

I seriously doubt opponents are thrilled to let a guy take a shot that he makes at 48%. However the alternative is to have their center come out on him and that is not a great alternative since it opens up the middle.

LOL @ it being a big win for the defense.

[spotatl]

The Hawks score just under 109 points per possession. You are talking about Horford taking a shot that averages 96 points per possession. The Nets have the worst offense in the league that scores 97.4 points per possession. Absolutely I think thats a big win for the defense if Horford starts shooting more from that range early in the shotclock- if I am facing the Hawks I am more than happy to let him do it. There is a reason why I think long jumpers are the worst shot in basketball. At the end of the shotclock I think its a perfectly fine option but in no way do I want it as a primary option

Edited March 30, 2010 by spotatl

[AHF]

The Hawks score just under 109 points per possession. You are talking about Horford taking a shot that averages 96 points per possession. The Nets have the worst offense in the league that scores 97.4 points per possession. Absolutely I think thats a big win for the defense if Horford starts shooting more from that range early in the shotclock- if I am facing the Hawks I am more than happy to let him do it. There is a reason why I think long jumpers are the worst shot in basketball. At the end of the shotclock I think its a perfectly fine option but in no way do I want it as a primary option

What you are arguing is that no team in the NBA should have a single player take that shot unless it is at the end of the shotclock (which I think is consistent of your on long 2's).

Against teams like Orlando with superior rebounders at the center position, I like that shot because the big man will eventually need to come out and check Horford which will open up things inside.

[spotatl]

Absolutely- with more than 10 seconds on the shot clock I don't think that any team should ever be taking long 2 pointers. I only want 3 pointers and shots close to the basket when the team has time to wait. I think its a sign of a poor offense when a team is taking long 2's early in the shotclock.

The difference between us is that I don't think that Horford can shoot well enough that the other team will eventually have to go out there to check him. If he were stepping behind the 3 point line and making even 35% his shots this is an entirely different conversation. But as I have said- if I am the other team I'm more than happy to let Horford shoot all the long 2's he wants to. It really is the worst shot in basketball in my mind.

Edited March 30, 2010 by spotatl

[mrhonline]

Hi-Lo with Horford/Smith. That's what I want to see.

[exodus]

The Hawks score just under 109 points per possession. You are talking about Horford taking a shot that averages 96 points per possession. The Nets have the worst offense in the league that scores 97.4 points per possession. Absolutely I think thats a big win for the defense if Horford starts shooting more from that range early in the shotclock- if I am facing the Hawks I am more than happy to let him do it. There is a reason why I think long jumpers are the worst shot in basketball. At the end of the shotclock I think its a perfectly fine option but in no way do I want it as a primary option

That reasoning is completely flawed. Every team will get fast break points and some easy follow up baskets or easy layups int he half court set that make the overall points per possession go up.

Not to mention that the Hawks are one of the slowest paced teams in the league in spite of getting a lot of fast break points. A full 41% of the Hawks attempts are with 8 seconds or left on the clock. When you take into account fast break points it is clear that the majority of the Hawks attempts in the half courtset are with less than 10 seconds on the clock.

This "early in the shot clock" argument is irrelevant.

Josh Smith shoots those shots 20% worse then Horford yet shoots them more often than Horford. Why is Mr Potato Head allowing that?

Bibby, Crawford and JJ all take more of these shots than Horford and shoot them worse. JJ shoots over twice as many as Horford and shoots them at 41%.

Therefore the logical choice is to let Horford shoot these more often and have the other guys, especially Smith, shoot them less.

Edited March 30, 2010 by exodus

[spotatl]

To me the logical choice is to have all of them shoot it less and have none of them shoot it more. I think its the worst shot in basketball. It isn't efficient, you don't get fouled, and you don't get many offensive rebounds at all when shooting the long jumper.

Edited March 30, 2010 by spotatl

[exodus]

To me the logical choice is to have all of them shoot it less and have none of them shoot it more. I think its the worst shot in basketball. It isn't efficient, you don't get fouled, and you don't get many offensive rebounds at all when shooting the long jumper.

yet you have no problem with Woody allowing Smith to shoot them more than Horford, even though he shoots them 20% worse?

I also haven't seen you say that the opposition is "thrilled" to see JJ, Bibby or Crawford shoot those shots. I find you lack of consistency a bit strange.

Also i would like to know who said that Horford shooting ajumper should be the Hawks first offensive option. I saw you mention this but didn't see anyone else say it.

The problem right now is that Horford shooting an open jumper is the last offensive option, even behind Smith shooting a jumper.

Edited March 30, 2010 by exodus

[spotatl]

Of course I have a problem with Josh Smith shooting them- I just don't think that NBA coaches have much ability to stop players once the ball is in their hands. I think Josh Smith shoots WAAAAY too many long jumpers.

I do think he opposing teams are thrilled when Crawford and JJ settle for long 2 point shots. If I am the defense those are the shots I want them taking. I think they shoot WAAAAY too many long 2 pointers. If I am facing JJ and Crawford I am afraid of them hurting me from 3 and attacking the paint. I absolutely think its poor judgment on JJ and Crawford's part ot settle for long Jumpers. Its the worst shot in basketball.

This thread is about trying to get horford more shots from outside. I think thats a ridiculous goal. To me Horford shooting jumpers should only be as a last resort. With under 5 left in the clock I don't have a problem with it.

Edited March 30, 2010 by spotatl

[exodus]

Of course I have a problem with Josh Smith shooting them- I just don't think that NBA coaches have much ability to stop players once the ball is in their hands. I think Josh Smith shoots WAAAAY too many long jumpers.

I do think he opposing teams are thrilled when Crawford and JJ settle for long 2 point shots. If I am the defense those are the shots I want them taking. I think they shoot WAAAAY too many long 2 pointers. If I am facing JJ and Crawford I am afraid of them hurting me from 3 and attacking the paint. I absolutely think its poor judgment on JJ and Crawford's part ot settle for long Jumpers. Its the worst shot in basketball.

This thread is about trying to get horford more shots from outside. I think thats a ridiculous goal. To me Horford shooting jumpers should only be as a last resort. With under 5 left in the clock I don't have a problem with it.

It is the coaches job to determine who is taking shots and where they are taking them from. it is also a given that Horford rarely even touches the ball early in the clock unless it is a fast break.

What is ridiculous is that Horford shooting jumpers is the last offensive option, behind Smith, Crawford, JJ and Bibby shooting jumpers. The Hawks half court offense is a problem and in the playoffs the other teams are sure to focus on shutting down JJ. We need to find other ways to score in the half court.

Horford shooting more and the other guys shooting less would not only make the Hawks better offensively just from a numbers standpoint, it could also benefit the hawks by bringing the opposing center out of the lane. There is absolutely no excuse for Smith taking more jumpers thanHorford. That falls squarely on Woody.

[spotatl]

I do want Horford shooting long jumpers to be one of the last options on offense. I don't want Josh Smith shooting jumpers unless its as the shotclock is going off. I don't think that Woodson is designing plays to get Josh Smith to shoot jumpers- to me thats just Josh Making a VERY poor decision.

[exodus]

I do want Horford shooting long jumpers to be one of the last options on offense. I don't want Josh Smith shooting jumpers unless its as the shotclock is going off. I don't think that Woodson is designing plays to get Josh Smith to shoot jumpers- to me thats just Josh Making a VERY poor decision.

The bad decision is designing an offense where Smith is on the perimeter in thefirst place. We already know what he is going to do when he gets theball out there.

The fact is that Horford shooting an open jumper is also a better option than the Hawks guards shooting a contested jumper, which they do far too frequently.