Jamal and Joe's Minutes

[benhillboy]

Because Crawford has a knack for drawing a foul off of his jumpshot. He doesn't drive to the hole as much as JJ, but he definitely draws more fouls off of his jumper.

Jamal and Joe both shoot 18% of their shots from close range, Jamal at .645 and Joe at .573. What games do you watch? I'm guessing those stats include his floaters because Joe NEVER attacks the rim, and when he does it's with the force of a high schooler. Is it not crystal clear to you that Joe is abominable when it comes to drawing fouls? He could learn a thing or 2 from Jamal and rise straight up for his contested jumpers instead of fading. You do realize how important and far-reaching hitting free throws and getting the opposing team into the penalty, extending the game if you're down, and forcing line-up changes is, right? Every so often NBA games are decided by a free throw here and there, or the occasional 4-point play. Why do you think the Thunder are competing for a playoff spot in a Conference were the Hawks probably wouldn't be in the race behind a 21 year old? A huge reason is because he takes and makes enough free throws on most nights to offset a multitude of mistakes from his team.

The only conclusion I can come up with is the guy is flat out lazy when a No-Time All-Star reserve logging 400 less minutes, at 6'5, 200 can will his way to the line by taking contact from wherever on the floor and MAKE more free throws than he, a 4-Time All-Star, at 6'7, 240, TAKES! Joe even shoots a majority of the technicals! There is so much you can draw from that stat alone about how poor Joe's approach is. How you can discount that is unbelievable. But oh, I know. "Joe doesn't have to get to the line because he knows Jamal is going to" or "he's being doubled all the time." Right. I must say I respect your loyalty to the guy, but his numbers and credentials are as hollow as I've ever seen. If you're expecting great things from Joe when the bright lights shine, you'll be truly disappointed, yet your posts will show unflinching denial. Are you Joe Johnson?

Edited April 12, 2010 by benhillboy

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Jamal and Joe both shoot 18% of their shots from close range, Jamal at .645 and Joe at .573. What games do you watch?

What do their shooting percentages have to do with how often they get to the FT line? Jamal finishes at a higher rate at the rim than JJ. I already knew that. But Jamal doesn't draw the vast majority of his fouls going to the rim. He draws them off of his jumpshot.

I'm guessing those stats include his floaters because Joe NEVER attacks the rim, and when he does it's with the force of a high schooler.

Wrong.

JJ attempts 3.6 shots per game at the rim out of 18.3 shots ( or 19.7% ) . . . and 3.5 shots per game within 10 feet ( which is the floater ). That means of the 18.3 shots per game that JJ takes, 7.1 of those shots are within 10 feet of the basket ( or 39% of his shots )

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Joe%20Johnson

Crawford attempts 2.5 of his 13.9 shots per game a the rim ( or 18% ) If you add in the 1.1 shots per game he takes from within 10 feet, he takes 3.6 of his 13.9 shots per game within 10 feet ( or 26% of his shots )

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Jamal%20Crawford

Is it not crystal clear to you that Joe is abominable when it comes to drawing fouls? He could learn a thing or 2 from Jamal and rise straight up for his contested jumpers instead of fading.

I agree. Jamal has that down pat, and if JJ added that technique to his arsenal, he'd be a more efficient player. Although the refs could call more fouls when he gets hit trying to shoot the floater. The fadeaway jumper is an effective shot though, if mastered. It's a shot that every top scorer in the league, outside of Dwyane Wade, uses on the regular.

You do realize how important and far-reaching hitting free throws and getting the opposing team into the penalty, extending the game if you're down, and forcing line-up changes is, right? Every so often NBA games are decided by a free throw here and there, or the occasional 4-point play.

I know how important free throws are. It's funny though. You're using this Crawford vs JJ comparison at the FT line, like Crawford is getting there a ton of times.

Per 40 minutes . . . Jamal makes 4.3 FTs a game

Per 40 minutes . . . JJ makes 3 FTs a game

So Jamal has a 1.3 point a game advantage over JJ at the line. If this is what you want to hang your hat on, then knock yourself out. Jamal gets to the line and makes slightly more FTs than JJ.

Why do you think the Thunder are competing for a playoff spot in a Conference were the Hawks probably wouldn't be in the race behind a 21 year old? A huge reason is because he takes and makes enough free throws on most nights to offset a multitude of mistakes from his team.

Durant is a superstar player that draws fouls at a ridiculous rate. As KG said, he gets calls like he's Michael ( bleepin ) Jordan. And the Thunder have made the 2nd most FTs in the league. Their 8th in the league defensive rating probably has a lot to do with the success of the Thunder this year.

NOTE: The Hawks are 21 - 9 ( .700 winning percentage ) vs the Western Conference and has beaten EVERY TEAM IN THAT CONFERENCE, with the exception of your Oklahoma City Thunder.

If the Hawks were to win at a .700 winning percentage if they played in the West, they'd post a conference record of 36 - 16 . . . which would be NUMBER ONE IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE.

The only conclusion I can come up with is the guy is flat out lazy when a No-Time All-Star reserve logging 400 less minutes, at 6'5, 200 can will his way to the line by taking contact from wherever on the floor and MAKE more free throws than he, a 4-Time All-Star, at 6'7, 240, TAKES! Joe even shoots a majority of the technicals! There is so much you can draw from that stat alone about how poor Joe's approach is. How you can discount that is unbelievable.

I've never discounted JJ's lack of getting to the free throw line. I've said on here in the past that it's really one of the only things prevented him from bringing him closer to be a superstar player. And once again, Crawford gets fouled on his jumpshot, not because he's driving to the hole all the time and getting fouled. Show me anywhere on Hawksquawk where I've discounted JJ's lack of getting to the line.

But oh, I know. "Joe doesn't have to get to the line because he knows Jamal is going to" or "he's being doubled all the time." Right. I must say I respect your loyalty to the guy, but his numbers and credentials are as hollow as I've ever seen. If you're expecting great things from Joe when the bright lights shine, you'll be truly disappointed, yet your posts will show unflinching denial. Are you Joe Johnson?

Did you like the 12 - 19 FG . . . 4 - 6 3FG . . . 3 - 4 FG ( typical JJ ) . . 31 point performance tonight?

Of course you didn't.

JJ knows what he needs to do come playoff time. We'll see if he can answer the bell.

Why you and the other guy are trying to make this a JJ vs Jamal competition, I do not know. We're going to need BOTH GUYS to be on, come playoff time . . especially in that 2nd round. If both guys do what they're supposed to do, then we're going to have a puncher's chance against Orlando or Cleveland. Instead of channeling all of that hate toward JJ, how about supporting the Hawks as a whole, and give the team, players, and coaches props . . . no matter WHO performed on a given night.

Edited April 13, 2010 by northcyde