Al Horford is gonna get a max contract.

[mrhonline]

No. I am saying that he did not get an offer from another team. Neither did Deng, Iggy, Biedrins or Gordon. Smith got an offer very late in the summer and it was a long way from the max.

And all that was before the stock market collapsed.

Smith didn't get a better offer because of his perceived attitude problems. I'm certain of that.

Regardless, Deng, Iggy, Biedrins, and Gordon all got extremely lucrative deals, even without a whole lot of teams to drive up the price. That's because players have some leverage with the QO. It's rare that a guy doesn't get something resembling "market value."

[exodus]

niremetal- the rules for Restricted free agency are part of the CBA- not part of the player's contracts.

The chances of the players being able to get rid of restricted free agency in the next CBA is about the same as the chances of 2012 salary cap being $70 million. The players aren't in position to be getting concessions, especially huge ones like this.

[mrhonline]

Would I give Horford any of those contracts? Sure. But we can't pretend 3yr/$41M or 5yr/$60M is the same as 5yr/$80M, which is what a max extension would be.

No, it's not. But it's pretty darn close.

[coachx]

No. I am saying that he did not get an offer from another team. Neither did Deng, Iggy, Biedrins or Gordon. Smith got an offer very late in the summer and it was a long way from the max.

And all that was before the stock market collapsed.

Sund did an excellent job with that !

[spotatl]

As I said I would be shocked if there wasn't RFA in the next CBA. but would the owners get rid of RFA in exchange for a hard cap? In exchange for a rollback of existing salaries? For a max length of 4 years on all contracts? I just don't know and no one else does either. I am simply pointing out that we aren't SURE to have RFA rights on Horford. I would be shocked if the Hawks didn't have the right of first refusal on Horford but its not a sure thing.

[exodus]

Smith didn't get a better offer because of his perceived attitude problems. I'm certain of that.

Regardless, Deng, Iggy, Biedrins, and Gordon all got extremely lucrative deals, even without a whole lot of teams to drive up the price. That's because players have some leverage with the QO. It's rare that a guy doesn't get something resembling "market value."

Did you forget the title to the thread? It is about Horford getting a max contract from someone. None of those guys you mentioned got max contracts, or close. Neither did Smith. In fact Smith was the only high profile RFA from his class that got any offer from another team.

Now we are in a post stock market collapse world and that will make it much harder for teams to give out huge deals to guys who aren't proven max players (Lebron, Wade).

There is no logical reason to think Horford would get a max offer from anyone, It anything it is far more likely that no other team makes an offer at all.

[spotatl]

I just don't remember the last time a young all star big hit FA and didn't get paid far more than the fans of that team wanted to give them. Nene got 6 years and 60 million. Biedrins got 6 years and 60 million. Bynum got 4 years and 58 million. None of them were an allstar. None of those guys were as accomplished (and healthy) as Horford is. I just don't find it as absurd to think that Horford would get more if he were to hit FA.

I agree that the new CBA is likely to limit the size of his contract, but I absolutely think that if he were a RFA this offseason that a team like the Nets would offer him a max deal.

Edited April 13, 2010 by spotatl

[mrhonline]

Did you forget the title to the thread?

Like spotatl, I wouldn't be shocked if someone offered him a max contract.

But as far as the title, you've been around here long enough to know that a boring title wouldn't have merited 45 responses in so short a time period...:stirthepot:

Edited April 13, 2010 by mrhonline

[spotatl]

Kenyon Martin signed a max contract as a RFA after making the allstar team. Thats probably the best comparison I can come up with to Horford.

Edited April 13, 2010 by spotatl

[exodus]

I just don't remember the last time a young all star big hit FA and didn't get paid far more than the fans of that team wanted to give them. Nene got 6 years and 60 million. Biedrins got 6 years and 60 million. Bynum got 4 years and 58 million. None of them were an allstar. None of those guys were as accomplished (and healthy) as Horford is. I just don't find it as absurd to think that Horford would get more if he were to hit FA.

I agree that the new CBA is likely to limit the size of his contract, but I absolutely think that if he were a RFA this offseason that a team like the Nets would offer him a max deal.

None of those deals were max and all of them were before the economic collapse. And the only reasons that Horford made the All-Star team is that the center position is very weak and he plays on a winning team. Put him on the Nets or even the Bucks and there is no way he makes it. Bogut had better numbers than Horford but didn't even get in over David Lee.

[exodus]

Kenyon Martin signed a max contract as a RFA after making the allstar team. Thats probably the best comparison I can come up with to Horford.

And the Nets got the better end of that trade. It was a trade in case you forgot.

[spotatl]

Yes- the Nuggets were willing to give 3 first round picks on top of a max contract in order to acquire a young All star quality Bigman. Yet you still think there is no chance that Horford would get a max contract? I thought at the time the Nuggets were foolish to give up the picks instead of just signing Kmart to the offersheet, but it shows the length that teams will overpay to acquire young talented size.

Edited April 13, 2010 by spotatl

[exodus]

Yes- the Nuggets were willing to give 3 first round picks on top of a max contract in order to acquire a young All star quality Bigman. Yet you still think there is no chance that Horford would get a max contract? I thought at the time the Nuggets were foolish to give up the picks instead of just signing Kmart to the offersheet, but it shows the length that teams will overpay to acquire young talented size.

Absolutely no chance. Just because Horford squeaked into the All-Star game at a historically weak position doesn't put him in the same world as Dwight Howard.

The normal outcome for high profile RFAs is to get no offers at all. And now that we are in the aftermath of a historic economic collapse (which you seem to be blissfully unaware of) there is even less chance for a marginal All-Star getting a big offer.

Edited April 13, 2010 by exodus

[spotatl]

exodus- you think if Horford were a free agent that there is no chance that he would get a max offer? Can we all agree that Horford is worth more than Rudy Gay? Just out of curiosity what do you think that Rudy gay will get this offseason?

Horford is likely to be the top FA young big when he hits FA. Someone is going to badly overpay him.

Edited April 13, 2010 by spotatl

[prolific25]

The Hawks should wait and see what David Lee signs for before they offer an extension.

[mrhonline]

The Hawks should wait and see what David Lee signs for before they offer an extension.

And then add 20-25% more because Horford is an equivalent offensive player, but a far better defensive player, right?

[MaceCase]

I think there is too much emphasis on Al being a center in some of these arguments. Al is widely viewed by us and opposing teams as a power forward playing out of position. We could argue that GMs would value his production at the center position and may believe him to be even more productive at PF yet alone garner more interest due to his work ethic, high character and link to the Hispanic community. Yes I am suggesting that if they happen to not spend all their cap this season and through the implementation of the next CBA the Nets would easily throw a near max to max contract at Al to pair with Lopez. I mean the guy is 5th in the league in +/- so his contribution goes far beyond just his raw numbers.

[prolific25]

And then add 20-25% more because Horford is an equivalent offensive player, but a far better defensive player, right?

I don't think that really matters. How many GM's are going to use "win shares" to determine how much a player is worth? Lee just put up 20 and 12 in a year where about 8-10 teams have a significant amount of capspace. If anything...Lee might get even better offers because he's not restricted.

Edited April 13, 2010 by prolific25

[uga2006]

He'll get 10-12 mil. He should get the same kinda contract that Al Jefferson got.

[exodus]

exodus- you think if Horford were a free agent that there is no chance that he would get a max offer? Can we all agree that Horford is worth more than Rudy Gay? Just out of curiosity what do you think that Rudy gay will get this offseason?

Horford is likely to be the top FA young big when he hits FA. Someone is going to badly overpay him.

No. Gay has averaged 19 ppg for 3 straight years. Horford has averaged over 12 ppg once. Horford is the Hawks 4th offensive option and isn't a shutdown defender either. Kmart was more productive on offense than Horford and was also a better defender when he got his big deal. Horford is a slightly better rebounder but no way will he be as high profile as KMart.

Gay most likely won't get any offers from other teams. That is the way it goes with RFAs. When was the last time any RFA got a huge offer from another team? Off the top of my head the only more recent one i can think of is Curry and that was from Isiah who was obviously a horrible GM.

If you don't think the financial realities of the economy are going to slow down spending then i don't even know what to say to you.

Edited April 14, 2010 by exodus