ESPN has a Naughty and Nice playoff list

[dhawk]

Only after 2 or 3 games.

Josh Smith makes the NICE list for the HAWKS. Only Jason Richardson has a better playoff PER. They mention all of the Atlanta starters have amazing plus/minus numbers so far, and Smith is no exception -- the Hawks have been about 40 points better per 100 possessions when he's in the game.

Of course Lebron & Durant, etc are on the list.

On the worst list:

Shawn Marion

Jermaine O'neal

Carlos Delfino

The Hawks Bench

Johns Salmons

By John Hollinger's statistics, Delfino has been one of the very worst small forwards in the NBA during these playoffs. His "value added" metric suggests the Bucks would be better off playing a generic NBA 12th man instead. Jeremy from Bucksketball: "Carlos Delfino has been awful. He has a PER under six. He did get injured a few weeks ago. It was pretty bad looking, but still, he can't make a shot or score on Mike Bibby. Pretty frustrating."

The Hawks' bench

The Hawks have been a very strong team so far -- it's nearly impossible to imagine they'll lose in the first round, which you can't say about many teams. But make no mistake, it's because of their starters (some of whom have blow-your-mind adjusted plus/minus numbers in the early going). Their backups, however, have been bad. Bret Lagree of Hoopinion: "The Hawks bench is a collective nine of 32 from the floor with 12 rebounds, six assists, and seven turnovers in 150 minutes. Zaza Pachulia, Joe Smith and Jeff Teague all have negative PERs through two games."

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/15278/the-nice-list-best-players-so-far

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/15326/the-naughty-list-worst-players-so-far

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The bench are who they are. And that's why Woody has had tight reigns on them all year. They're not good enough to be trusted with a set amount of minutes every night. Only Crawford is good enough to be trusted like that. And even his time can and will be cut, if we can get good play out of Marvin and Bibby.

[Guest]

The Hawks bench are who they are....

To put Durant on the Nice List is a stretch...he is shooting 27 of 74 for 36% with 14 turnovers...I know the Thunder are the playoff darlings but come on...If those were Joe's numbers he would be on the Naughty list for sure.

[Swatguy]

The bench are who they are. And that's why Woody has had tight reigns on them all year. They're not good enough to be trusted with a set amount of minutes every night. Only Crawford is good enough to be trusted like that. And even his time can and will be cut, if we can get good play out of Marvin and Bibby.

I disagree. The bench (Jamal, Zaza and Mo) have and will continue to be essential in the success of this run. That will be evident Saturday.

[Guest]

The bench need to snap put of whatever funk they are in for these road games....Jamal's shot has been off (maybe he still got first playoff jitters or maybe it's his toe), Zaza needs to stop being the black hole Zaza and pass the ball, Mo needs to hit those 3's and Joe Smith gotta put a body on somebody and hit those 12-15 ftooters

[Guest]

To put Durant on the Nice List is a stretch...he is shooting 27 of 74 for 36% with 14 turnovers...I know the Thunder are the playoff darlings but come on...If those were Joe's numbers he would be on the Naughty list for sure.

What? PER overvalues shooting and undervalues efficient scoring? No way! Its the perfect metric, thats just not possible.

[exodus]

The bench need to snap put of whatever funk they are in for these road games....Jamal's shot has been off (maybe he still got first playoff jitters or maybe it's his toe), Zaza needs to stop being the black hole Zaza and pass the ball, Mo needs to hit those 3's and Joe Smith gotta put a body on somebody and hit those 12-15 ftooters

Outside of Crawford the bench has sucked this year. Joe Smith has been putting up bricks all year and can't defend at all. Zaza hasn't been good for much of anything. Other than occassional hot shooting from 3 Mo is pretty worthless.

i don't know why anyone would expect any meaningful contribution from anyone on the bench other than Crawford.

[dhawk]

Outside of Crawford the bench has sucked this year. Joe Smith has been putting up bricks all year and can't defend at all. Zaza hasn't been good for much of anything. Other than occassional hot shooting from 3 Mo is pretty worthless.

i don't know why anyone would expect any meaningful contribution from anyone on the bench other than Crawford.

We need to keep our starters fresh, any contribution from the bench would be welcomed. Of course, since the made-for-tv 1st round of the playoffs has us playing every 5 days seems like, it might not matter. Bucks will probably shoot lights out at home and it would be sad if the starters will all have to play 40+ minutes to try to win the game. Plus we can't expect the bench to just turn it on the next series against a strong bench from Orlando if they can't play and contribute against the Bucks.

[HawksFan87]

Crawford is the only bench player who has played well for most of the year this season. Everyone else has sucked for the most part.. So Hollinger is right.

[dhawk]

The Hawks bench are who they are....

To put Durant on the Nice List is a stretch...he is shooting 27 of 74 for 36% with 14 turnovers...I know the Thunder are the playoff darlings but come on...If those were Joe's numbers he would be on the Naughty list for sure.

Yea, Durant is shooting horribly and living at the free-throw line as usual. How does Kobe go an entire game and don't shoot not one free throw? OKC Baby!!!!!!!!!!!

[Crank]

Here is the thing the starters have not played well as a unit for quiet a few months now and have turned it up the past two games .The bench has carried this team for the greater part of this season . If our starters had played all year the way they are playing right now we wouldve won 60 games easily . Now that the road games have started we will need both to get this sweep.

[HawksFan87]

the bench has carried this team :cant believe: really lol?? U forgot to mention how our "great" bench has lost numerous leads this year

[exodus]

the bench has carried this team :cant believe: really lol?? U forgot to mention how our "great" bench has lost numerous leads this year

Seriously except for Crawford the bench has completely sucked.

[Crank]

the bench has carried this team :cant believe: really lol?? U forgot to mention how our "great" bench has lost numerous leads this year

Crawford comes off the bench so yeah I would say him coming in and basically outplaying the opponents entire bench is carrying the team .

You say how many times have the bench blown a lead well I say how many bad first quarter starts have we had because Im quite sure there were more slow starts to the 1st and 3rd quarter than the bench has blown leads .

Im not saying they were the best but I dont get why people say well outside of Crawford ....uh Crawford is apart of the bench and we are grading the bench as a whole here not each individuals contribution .

We have the leagues best bench player but our bench sucks ......... is a bit of a stretch

[exodus]

Crawford comes off the bench so yeah I would say him coming in and basically outplaying the opponents entire bench is carrying the team .

You say how many times have the bench blown a lead well I say how many bad first quarter starts have we had because Im quite sure there were more slow starts to the 1st and 3rd quarter than the bench has blown leads .

Im not saying they were the best but I dont get why people say well outside of Crawford ....uh Crawford is apart of the bench and we are grading the bench as a whole here not each individuals contribution .

We have the leagues best bench player but our bench sucks ......... is a bit of a stretch

Our bench gets routinely outplayed. They were outscored 40 to 7 last game. Crawford can't make up for the rest of the garbage cans on the Hawks bench. All of the bigs on the bench suck.

Nothing could be a bigger stretch than saying the bench has carried us. Might as well say Teague is on the short list for ROY.

[Crank]

Our bench gets routinely outplayed. They were outscored 40 to 7 last game. Crawford can't make up for the rest of the garbage cans on the Hawks bench. All of the bigs on the bench suck.

Nothing could be a bigger stretch than saying the bench has carried us. Might as well say Teague is on the short list for ROY.

Youve taken last game and basically blanketed over the entire season . The bench was not outscored 40-7 throughout the season. Our bench gets routinely outplayed but so does our starting lineup.

Its amazing the amount of self hate that goes on just because someone posted stats based off two games . Our bench was average this season not spectacular but certainly not garbage either .

[99PROBL3MS]

Youve taken last game and basically blanketed over the entire season . The bench was not outscored 40-7 throughout the season. Our bench gets routinely outplayed but so does our starting lineup.

Its amazing the amount of self hate that goes on just because someone posted stats based off two games . Our bench was average this season not spectacular but certainly not garbage either .

The bench has not been good in my opinion. Zaza and Moe Evans have had their moments but they more than make up for that with stupid ticky tack fouls. We don't always get the offensive production from them but always get the silly fouls. When Crawford's shot is falling, he can play with anyone. When it is not......

The Hawks starters and Crawford are the sole reason they are where they stand today. The other eastern conference playoff teams have FAR better benches than Atlanta. Look at the Cavs who have Big Z, Andy V, Delonte West, Jamario Moon, heck I would take J.J. Hickson on this team in a heart beat. The Bulls have guys like Brad Miller and Flip Murray coming off the bench.

Even the Bobcats have guys like Tyrus Thomas, Tyson Chandler, DJ Augustine etc. The Celtics have a deep bench and we all know how deep the Magic are. The Hawks have the least productive bench in the entire NBA. How many of ATL's bench players would even play a second on these other Eastern Conference playoff teams? Aside from Crawford of course.

[tremor]

Our bench is awful? Our bench carries the team?

Can't we just have solid bench with one of the best 6th man, hustling big, decent SG/SF and promising rookie PG?

[exodus]

Youve taken last game and basically blanketed over the entire season . The bench was not outscored 40-7 throughout the season. Our bench gets routinely outplayed but so does our starting lineup.

Its amazing the amount of self hate that goes on just because someone posted stats based off two games . Our bench was average this season not spectacular but certainly not garbage either .

i didn't blanket the whole season. The bench has sucked all season. The last game the difference was just magnified. Who has had a good season on the bench other than Crawford?

Saying our starting lineup gets routinely outplayed is just flat out nuts. If that was the case the Hawks wouldn't have won 53 games. Smith and Horford had career seasons. JJ had the second best season of his career.

The Hawks starters averaged 70 ppg, the bench 31. Take out Crawfords 18 and the rest of the bench is only averaging 13 ppg. Not only is the bench scoring weak but they can't defend at all. The Hawks backup bigs are a joke.

Quit while you are behind.

Edited April 24, 2010 by exodus

[Crank]

i didn't blanket the whole season. The bench has sucked all season. The last game the difference was just magnified. Who has had a good season on the bench other than Crawford?

Saying our starting lineup gets routinely outplayed is just flat out nuts. If that was the case the Hawks wouldn't have won 53 games. Smith and Horford had career seasons. JJ had the second best season of his career.

The Hawks starters averaged 70 ppg, the bench 31. Take out Crawfords 18 and the rest of the bench is only averaging 13 ppg. Not only is the bench scoring weak but they can't defend at all. The Hawks backup bigs are a joke.

Quit while you are behind.

again you just dont get it .

Your entire argument is based on adjusting the numbers only for your own team .

IF e take out Crawfords numbers

NEWSFLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crawford comes off the bench no matter how you try and change it hes a member of the bench . Its stupid to eliminate one player to try and make this argument .

How about this we rank the benches after eliminating the best bench player from each team .

You dont comprehend well at all. We had several players have great seasons individually but as unit they were outplayed way too often for a group thats been together 3 years now . Next youre gonna say that the starters have played the way they played the last two games the entire season .

Unless youre gonna start posting the numbers of each bench player 6-9 and then ranking them against the rest of the leagues bench players 6-9 your entire argument is ridiculous