Marvin and gang on defense

[NineOhTheRino]

Marvin getting killed

check @ 00:57 & 01:47

Edited April 25, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[Diesel]

Marvin getting killed

check @ 00:57 & 01:47

"Cmon take one, take a hard foul Marvin!!"

My thoughts exactly.

[DJlaysitup]

"Cmon take one, take a hard foul Marvin!!"

My thoughts exactly.

I was at my boy's rugby tournament at Furman and only got to see the last 1/3rd of the game (when we were already blown out)...but I do remember two specific comments from the game announcers. #1..JJ was the only guy who really showed up for the game....#2..The Hawks have a serious problem at the 3-spot. The 3-spot is way too important in the NBA to not have a real contributor there.

Obviously most of the late game conversation was about the lack of real appearance of the Hawks in general.

Even with the "JJ was the only guy who showed up" comment they said JJ was 8 for 19 (at the time) below 50%.

P.S. - Walton HS Rugby lost in O.T. to the Champs (Charlotte Catholic) in a rainstorm and dang near won the Southern Championship. Oh well, I guess we will have to settle for three State Championships in a row. GO RAIDERS!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL @ focusing on Marvin. He was bad, no doubt. Smith and Horford were worse. It was Smoove's horrible lackadasical defensive positioning in the first place that led to the lay-up . . . not Marvin rotating from the other side of the court. And Bibby was the closest to the play, and he was clueless as well. But people talk about MARVIN on that play? Please.

As for the other lay-up . . . yeah Marvin . . take a hard foul . . when you're already down 17 . . to make the situation even worse with a possible And-1. Marvin never saw Stackhouse trailing the play, until Stack received the pass at the last minute from Jennings.

No . . . When our All-Star center gets 3 total friggin rebounds . . . and our supposedly All-Star PF goes 2 - 12 and scores only 7 points . . . all of that Marvin talk needs to cease. Marvin was the least of the problems last night. Tell Horford and Smoove to play with some damn heart. They're the so-called leaders on this team.

Damn . . and is that Smitty talking? Smitty should know damn better. He watched this squad for 4 years.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I was at my boy's rugby tournament at Furman and only got to see the last 1/3rd of the game (when we were already blown out)...but I do remember two specific comments from the game announcers. #1..JJ was the only guy who really showed up for the game....#2..The Hawks have a serious problem at the 3-spot. The 3-spot is way too important in the NBA to not have a real contributor there.

Obviously most of the late game conversation was about the lack of real appearance of the Hawks in general.

Even with the "JJ was the only guy who showed up" comment they said JJ was 8 for 19 (at the time) below 50%.

P.S. - Walton HS Rugby lost in O.T. to the Champs (Charlotte Catholic) in a rainstorm and dang near won the Southern Championship. Oh well, I guess we will have to settle for three State Championships in a row. GO RAIDERS!

He was 6 - 11 FG in the first half duriing the time the entire team was playing like garbage. That's why the announcers said that. But JJ tried to carry the Hawks on his back even more in that 3rd quarter, when no one else was stepping up other than Horford on offense. JJ then went cold ( I think he missed 6 shots in a row ). So when you saw the 8 - 19 FG, that's probably why.

But anybody who watched the entire game, knows that it was basically JJ, and then Zaza in the 4th quarter during garbage time, that showed up.

Mo Evans took two of the most horrible shots of all time in that game. I've never seen anybody shoot a "brick lay-up" on a fast break, until Mo did it. LOL . . he didn't even draw iron.

[NineOhTheRino]

LOL @ focusing on Marvin. He was bad, no doubt. Smith and Horford were worse. It was Smoove's horrible lackadasical defensive positioning in the first place that led to the lay-up . . . not Marvin rotating from the other side of the court. And Bibby was the closest to the play, and he was clueless as well. But people talk about MARVIN on that play? Please.

As for the other lay-up . . . yeah Marvin . . take a hard foul . . when you're already down 17 . . to make the situation even worse with a possible And-1. Marvin never saw Stackhouse trailing the play, until Stack received the pass at the last minute from Jennings.

No . . . When our All-Star center gets 3 total friggin rebounds . . . and our supposedly All-Star PF goes 2 - 12 and scores only 7 points . . . all of that Marvin talk needs to cease. Marvin was the least of the problems last night. Tell Horford and Smoove to play with some damn heart. They're the so-called leaders on this team.

Damn . . and is that Smitty talking? Smitty should know damn better. He watched this squad for 4 years.

Not calling Marvin out just bringing up a clip from NBATV. Yeah the frontcourt guys played like trash too. I saw Josh jogging too many times.

[DJlaysitup]

LOL @ focusing on Marvin. He was bad, no doubt. Smith and Horford were worse.

I'm not focusing on Marvin...I'm focusing on what semi-experts (guys doing the game) said about the Hawks problems at the 3-spot (and what I imagine nearly all NBA experts are thinking).

We have to get a little bit real here. Smoove stunk...Horford stunk. Smoove can (and often does) change games, was 2nd for NBA D-player of the year, and many pundits felt (and said on TV) that he should have made the all-star team. Horford made the all-star team, worked with the international team, and has generally been a very consistent performer while playing out of position.

While I'm a bit peaved about their performances last night - I think they have earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their positions.

Marvin, on the other hand, has simply not lived up to the standard of an average or better NBA small forward. It's just the way it is. Few teams have killers at all positions but the 3-spot is a very important position in the NBA.

With Marvin...it is like having a light hitting utility infielder as your first baseman in MLB. Sure, he can catch the ball and occasionally gets some hits - but that position normally gives you more production. When you live with that kind of reduced production and it catches up with you over the long haul.

Honestly, if the NBA was a High School league I would think Marvin's Dad was the coach.

Edited April 25, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[niremetal]

I'm not focusing on Marvin...I'm focusing on what semi-experts (guys doing the game) said about the Hawks problems at the 3-spot (and what I imagine nearly all NBA experts are thinking).

We have to get a little bit real here. Smoove stunk...Horford stunk. Smoove can (and often does) change games, was 2nd for NBA D-player of the year, and many pundits felt (and said on TV) that he should have made the all-star team. Horford made the all-star team, worked with the international team, and has generally been a very consistent performer while playing out of position.

While I'm a bit peaved about their performances last night - I think they have earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their positions.

Marvin, on the other hand, has simply not lived up to the standard of an average or better NBA small forward. It's just the way it is. Few teams have killers at all positions but the 3-spot is a very important position in the NBA.

With Marvin...it is like having a light hitting utility infielder as your first baseman in MLB. Sure, he can catch the ball and occasionally gets some hits - but that position normally gives you more production. When you live with that kind of reduced production and it catches up with you over the long haul.

Honestly, if the NBA was a High School league I would think Marvin's Dad was the coach.

Actually, most of the title-winning teams from the last decade have had an on-ball perimeter defensive specialist who didn't score much at the 3-spot. Fox, Bowen, Prince, Ariza - that's 8 of the past 10 titles there. Marvin isn't at those guys' level defensively, at least not yet. But only his most devoted haters refuse to acknowledge that he's become a good, consistent on-ball perimeter defender. Of course you can find plays where he looks like he fell asleep defensively, but you can do the same for any player if you're waiting for it to happen. The problem is that people expect more out of him because of his draft position 5 years ago.

We're fine at the 3 if Marvin returns to the form he had before his injury last year. If he doesn't, it's not the end of the world since he's not getting paid more than 4th option money anyway, so we're not getting killed by getting out of him what we're getting now - good on-ball defense, sporadic offense, and slightly above average rebounding for his position.

It's always like this after a loss - round up the usual suspects.

Edited April 25, 2010 by niremetal

[DJlaysitup]

Actually, most of the title-winning teams from the last decade have had an on-ball perimeter defensive specialist who didn't score much at the 3-spot....

Well nir if you can find an on-ball perimeter defensive specialist cheap let's trade Marvin for him

+ the defenders you are refering to were generally lighter, tougher, and more athletic.

Actually you are correct over the last decade (excepting Paul Pierce) - but that's mostly because the best players have been at 1-2-5 lately. Go back a few more decades (still modern era) and those stats change.

[niremetal]

Well nir if you can find an on-ball perimeter defensive specialist cheap let's trade Marvin for him

+ the defenders you are refering to were generally lighter, tougher, and more athletic.

Actually you are correct over the last decade (excepting Paul Pierce) - but that's mostly because the best players have been at 1-2-5 lately. Go back a few more decades (still modern era) and those stats change.

No argument from me.

I will say that I think Marvin has better offensive skills than any of the guys I referred to. Of course, since he only decided to use them once every couple months this year, that's not a difference in practical terms...

[DJlaysitup]

No argument from me.

I will say that I think Marvin has better offensive skills than any of the guys I referred to. Of course, since he only decided to use them once every couple months this year, that's not a difference in practical terms...

No arguments from me either but the point is...Marvin simply isn't a shut-down defender. Shut-down defender is just the last label we can give him. He's an average defender.

Marvin has a skillset but is it a skillset that compares favorably against the other average starting SFs in the NBA?

[Diesel]

As for the other lay-up . . . yeah Marvin . . take a hard foul . . when you're already down 17 . . to make the situation even worse with a possible And-1. Marvin never saw Stackhouse trailing the play, until Stack received the pass at the last minute from Jennings.

When you're playing.. in a playoff game no less, you don't want to see your candyass SF move out of the way and give up a Layups. The Bad Boy Pistons would have sent a message right there. Regardless of how far they were down. Marvin just sidestepped. Too much thinking... not enough pride.