For all the bashing of Joe......

[HawkItus]

That's a very telling comment. Around here Joe gets killed, but most recaps and even Jennings seem to think that his exit is what turned the game. Everybody says let Joe go. But, honestly nobody fears our other guys.

[Diesel]

That's a very telling comment. Around here Joe gets killed, but most recaps and even Jennings seem to think that his exit is what turned the game. Everybody says let Joe go. But, honestly nobody fears our other guys.

The Joe Bashers are in full swing today.

It's a shame that people don't recognize how much Joe means to our team.

This is the same crowd that said " give us JR Rider and Jim Jackson..." and then pissed and moaned when Smitty played big in Portland and won a championship in San Antonio. While we went into Clipperville for 10 freakin years... UNTIL WE acquired Joe.

[mrhonline]

It's a shame that people don't recognize how much Joe means to our team.

Joe is one of the best 2nd options in the NBA. It's a shame he's a first option in Atlanta.

[AHawks89]

Did yall notice when Joe fouled out the Bucks bench went crazy. All of them were jumping off the bench pointing at Joe cheering. Everyone knows how valuable Joe is to our team. (well, not everyone knows..)

[Diesel]

Joe is one of the best 2nd options in the NBA. It's a shame he's a first option in Atlanta.

He's a 2nd option on a team filled with 4th and 5th options.

IN the land of the blind, the 1 eyed man is King.

So here's the problem H. We have no other way of getting a 1st option player. Moreover,

1. Joe is better than guys that we can proposed trading him for.
   
2. Joe's position is outright here in Atlanta.
   
3. Joe has been our bread and butter down the stretch.
   

Atlanta fans are silly enough to bash the one guy that is making the most difference on this team???

[mrhonline]

So here's the problem H. We have no other way of getting a 1st option player.

Untrue. Trading one of Smith or Horford could land you a 1st option, or at least another 2nd option whose forte is scoring inside. If that's what you want, at least have the courage to name which of the two you want to move.

Atlanta fans are silly enough to bash the one guy that is making the most difference on this team???

47.3% TS

43% eFG

31% 3FG

3.7 ASTS

1.3 A:TO

0.7 STLS

0.0 BLKS

^^^Are we supposed to ignore the fact that Joe has NOT been making the most difference on the road in the playoffs?

[Joker]

He's a 2nd option on a team filled with 4th and 5th options.

IN the land of the blind, the 1 eyed man is King.

So here's the problem H. We have no other way of getting a 1st option player. Moreover,

1. 
   
   
2. Joe is better than guys that we can proposed trading him for.
   
3. Joe's position is outright here in Atlanta.
   
4. Joe has been our bread and butter down the stretch.
   

Atlanta fans are silly enough to bash the one guy that is making the most difference on this team???

I haven't heard you say jack about Marvin. You were on a roll after Game 4. What happen?

Joe is one of the best 2nd options in the NBA. It's a shame he's a first option in Atlanta.

+1

Edited April 29, 2010 by nbasuperstar40

[Diesel]

Untrue. Trading one of Smith or Horford could land you a 1st option, or at least another 2nd option whose forte is scoring inside. If that's what you want, at least have the courage to name which of the two you want to move.

47.3% TS

43% eFG

31% 3FG

3.7 ASTS

1.3 A:TO

0.7 STLS

0.0 BLKS

^^^Are we supposed to ignore the fact that Joe has NOT been making the most difference on the road in the playoffs?

I've noticed that in this stat you're parading that you're failing to show his PPG and his real FG%.

I have also noticed, that you failed to compare that to what Joe does in our playoff Wins?

Why is that?

I'll tell you why... Because in your negativity, you don't want to see the positive contribution that Joe has made for this team in it's playoffs.

Let's help you:

Link 2

Link 3

You probably don't get this but in every arena we step in, Joe Johnson is the marked man. He's the player that they are trying to stop. He's not a 1 man gang, but I hae remember life before Joe Johnson. To me, it's down right silly to bash your best player.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Untrue. Trading one of Smith or Horford could land you a 1st option, or at least another 2nd option whose forte is scoring inside. If that's what you want, at least have the courage to name which of the two you want to move.

47.3% TS

43% eFG

31% 3FG

3.7 ASTS

1.3 A:TO

0.7 STLS

0.0 BLKS

^^^Are we supposed to ignore the fact that Joe has NOT been making the most difference on the road in the playoffs?

WHAT????

Up until last night . . . Joe Johnson has been PHENOMENAL in these playoffs . . . even on the road.

It's the other guys that didn't show up on the road. Horford was the whipping boy up until last night.

The only reason I went off on JJ last night, is because he HAS to get up those shots. If we're running ISO, he can't turn the ball over like that. He has to at least give the team a chance of him making a tough shot, or getting an offensive rebound. But JJ has bee FABULOUS in these playoffs.

Last night, even though he was struggling, he has to trust his jumper or make crisper passes so that people can get open shots. The decisions he made on both ends of the floor, especially with the fouling, was mind-boggling last night.

Having said that, this team is DEAD IN THE FRIGGIN WATER without JJ, no matter what coach you bring in here, unless you can replace him with a guy who can consistently score the basketball from the perimeter. Like I pointed out to you in that other thread, the main problem with this team, is that it is out of balance. And it's out of balance because we have 2 PFs playing on our frontline. And if those 2 guys don't play with desire and toughness every night, we're going to have problems.

And the PG situation doesn't help things one bit either.

Unlike the other JJ bashers, I fully expect this dude to atone for that performance in Milwaukee. I just hope the other guys are mentally ready for what they're about to encounter on Friday night. If they survive the initial wave, they should win the game. If not, they might get blown out the building. And that will be sad to see.

People are so in love with Josh Smith around here, that they can't see that he represents everything GREAT and BAD about the Hawks at the same time.

I'll be SHOCKED if JJ doesn't step it up big time in Milwaukee.

[mrhonline]

I've noticed that in this stat you're parading that you're failing to show his PPG and his real FG%.

Seriously? TS and eFG are real FG%. PPG is a useless stat if you don't take efficiency into consideration.

I have also noticed, that you failed to compare that to what Joe does in our playoff Wins?

Because the road losses have been the problem. Why is that a difficult concept?

You probably don't get this but in every arena we step in, Joe Johnson is the marked man. He's the player that they are trying to stop. He's not a 1 man gang, but I hae remember life before Joe Johnson.

As a fan, I want an NBA championship for the Hawks. I'm not content with 1st/2nd round exits.

Joe Johnson is a good NBA player who can contribute to a championship team. He cannot do that on this Atlanta Hawks team because he's expected to carry the team. Simple as that.

Edited April 29, 2010 by mrhonline

[mrhonline]

WHAT????

Up until last night . . . Joe Johnson has been PHENOMENAL in these playoffs . . . even on the road.

Those are his cumulative road stats in the playoffs since coming to Atlanta, north. No spin, no desperate hoping, no agenda. Just the unvarnished, ugly results.

Having said that, this team is DEAD IN THE FRIGGIN WATER without JJ

They're DEAD IN THE FRIGGIN WATER with JJ.

[AHF]

They're DEAD IN THE FRIGGIN WATER with Woodson.

If Skiles or Adelman or a number of other coaches we have passed on going after the past few years is our coach, we are getting ready to face off against Orlando right now and feeling pretty good about ourselves.

[Joker]

If Skiles or Adelman or a number of other coaches we have passed on going after the past few years is our coach, we are getting ready to face off against Orlando right now and feeling pretty good about ourselves.

And then we will lose to Orlando, we play for titles, not for (beep)ing respect.

[AHF]

And then we will lose to Orlando, we play for titles, not for (beep)ing respect.

I am not certain we lose to Orlando with a better coach.

But if you feel like you do, you can advocate that Utah, Dallas, Atlanta, Portland, Denver, and a bunch of other teams ditch their players, tank the season, and pray they get the next NBA superstar because you are never going to compete for a title in the NBA without either a good chance of losing to the best teams in the league - ala the Detroit Pistons squads who pulled one out while facing off against the top squads with the real superstars - or a true absolutely dominant star ala Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Wade, etc.

I'd rather see what we can do with a superior coach and see if we can achieve the best result in Atlanta Hawk basketball history by making the ECF, NBA finals, or winning it all.

Just because Nique never got out of the second round doesn't mean they should have dumped him to go for the very low % chance they get a star who wins titles.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I do agree that you change coaches, before you blow up the squad. But we know where the problems with this team lies.

- point guard

- defense at the point guard position

- defensive rebounding

- offensive execution

- an out of balance roster

Change coaches . . . but those other issues better be addressed as well. As you know, this is not as simple as changing a coach. The Hawks are not that talented as to assume that a mere coaching change will vault us to "elite" status.

[mrhonline]

I do agree that you change coaches, before you blow up the squad. But we know where the problems with this team lies.

- point guard

- defense at the point guard position

- defensive rebounding

- offensive execution

- an out of balance roster

Change coaches . . . but those other issues better be addressed as well. As you know, this is not as simple as changing a coach. The Hawks are not that talented as to assume that a mere coaching change will vault us to "elite" status.

Thank you, North, for finding common ground. ^^^This I can agree with.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Those are his cumulative road stats in the playoffs since coming to Atlanta, north. No spin, no desperate hoping, no agenda. Just the unvarnished, ugly results.

They're DEAD IN THE FRIGGIN WATER with JJ.

No doubt. Up until this year, JJ hasn't been able to get it done on the road. I'll give you that.

[Joker]

I am not certain we lose to Orlando with a better coach.

But if you feel like you do, you can advocate that Utah, Dallas, Atlanta, Portland, Denver, and a bunch of other teams ditch their players, tank the season, and pray they get the next NBA superstar because you are never going to compete for a title in the NBA without either a good chance of losing to the best teams in the league - ala the Detroit Pistons squads who pulled one out while facing off against the top squads with the real superstars - or a true absolutely dominant star ala Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Wade, etc.

I'd rather see what we can do with a superior coach and see if we can achieve the best result in Atlanta Hawk basketball history by making the ECF, NBA finals, or winning it all.

Just because Nique never got out of the second round doesn't mean they should have dumped him to go for the very low % chance they get a star who wins titles.

What better coach are you talking about? I want to know who this miracle worker is. The only reason I think the Hawks could upset Orlando is because they play up their opponents. Otherwise, we do not stand a chance. You can bring in Phil Jackson, Rich Adelman, both Van Gundy's. It doesn't mean a thing. They have a superstar Center who probably has the most impact in this league barring Lebron. It would take a lot to beat them and they have the overall mismatch advantage. We do not have a Center on this roster outside of Zaza. We don't stand a chance v. Dwight. If we contain him, we have to worry about J.J., Anderson, and of course the Hawk killer himself 'Vince Carter' . I don't like our chances but we do have a chance. I don't see any coach improving that for us.

Edited April 29, 2010 by nbasuperstar40

[HawkItus]

I disagree Joe is second option. He is a first option and delivers at an all-star level as a first option. The problem is Joe can't defend the post or block out centers. Joe can't call the plays or control practice. Joe does what he asked to do. If you don't like that take it up with the coach and management.

[AHF]

What better coach are you talking about? I want to know who this miracle worker is. The only reason I think the Hawks could upset Orlando is because they play up their opponents. Otherwise, we do not stand a chance. You can bring in Phil Jackson, Rich Adelman, both Van Gundy's. It doesn't mean a thing. They have a superstar Center who probably has the most impact in this league barring Lebron. It would take a lot to beat them and they have the overall mismatch advantage. We do not have a Center on this roster outside of Zaza. We don't stand a chance v. Dwight. If we contain him, we have to worry about J.J., Anderson, and of course the Hawk killer himself 'Vince Carter' . I don't like our chances but we do have a chance. I don't see any coach improving that for us.

So you are in favor of what? Tank next season and try to get the top pick or let JJ go and look at a run for either the 8th playoff spot or a late lottery pick?