Why a sign-and-trade is a MUST.

[mrhonline]

Regardless of the team Joe chooses, the Hawks must do what the Sonics did with Rashard Lewis some time back - get a trade exception. They'll do this by using the one ounce of leverage they'll have - Joe's Bird rights.

Having JJ's Bird rights will benefit the team acquiring him as follows:

Let's assume Joe agrees to a five-year, $90M deal with a team under the cap, Team A. If Team A signs Joe to that deal without the Hawks' help, it will look as follows:

Year 1 - $15.5M

Year 2 - $16.8M

Year 3 - $18.0M

Year 4 - $19.2M

Year 5 - $20.5M

If they speak to the Hawks after Joe agrees to sign, they can work out a S&T as follows:

Year 1 - $14.9M

Year 2 - $16.4M

Year 3 - $18.0M

Year 4 - $19.6M

Year 5 - $21.1M

Why does this matter, you ask? Because Team A, like most of the teams under the cap Joe would agree to sign with, will need to preserve as much salary cap space for this season as possible to sign multiple top free agents.

There are additional benefits of a S&T for all parties:

1. It allows teams over the cap to get into the bidding as well. (In this case, the Hawks would have to take back at least 80% of Joe's initial salary. One of the likely "over the cap bidders" is Dallas, who has a terrific trade chip in Dampier's contract. It is fully non-guaranteed, which means that Dallas could send Dampier to the Hawks as part of the S&T without it costing the Hawks any real cap space as soon as Dampier is waived).

2. It allows Joe to get a sixth year if the bidding for him really picks up. IOW, more money long-term.

3. If a team is under the cap, the result will be a trade exception for the Hawks. Depending on the elements of the trade, the Hawks could acquire a trade exception for as much as $15M. Why should you care? Because that trade exception could then be used to acquire a replacement guard/wing making up to the amount of the exception without having to send an salary in return. For example, the Hawks could use their trade exception to take Corey Maggette off the Warrior's hands. In essence, Maggette would be the player the Hawks traded Joe Johnson for. (Acquiring Dampier's contract could work in the same way).

For these reasons, a trade exception is a must.

[Guest]

No, no no. NO!

Don't you remember the last time we had a Traded Player Exception around the Hawksquawk? It was a nightmare, everyday the same question along with other stupid questions. "But can't we package the MLE with the TPE?" "Doesn't the TPE have to be within 120% of the value?" "Can't Al just take the TPE and not have us involved?" "I heard a sports writer for the Pacers say this____ so it must be true!"

Although a TPE would benefit the Hawks, I don't want one. That will spell doom for this message board.

[AtLaS]

I would really rather just let JJ go or trade him to a team with cap space (so we don't have to take a ton of salary back) because if we resign him, than we are just locking ourselves into mediocrity. JJ needs to go, it's obvious that we aren't going to win a championship with this current makeup.

[Swiftkick]

I want Joe to take a hike I want nothing to do with a sign and trade and taking on some avg player with a bad contract ..Start the rebuilding process and THANK the LORD above Joe never put his name on that dotted line.

MAKE CAP SPACE ..KEEP AL HORFORD ...Trade Marvin/Josh Smith for cap relief and a young promising POINT GUARD

[mrhonline]

I want Joe to take a hike I want nothing to do with a sign and trade and taking on some avg player with a bad contract ..Start the rebuilding process and THANK the LORD above Joe never put his name on that dotted line.

If you move him to a team under the cap, you don't have to take back a bad contract. Re-read what I wrote.

[jezmund]

Regardless of the team Joe chooses, the Hawks must do what the Sonics did with Rashard Lewis some time back - get a trade exception. They'll do this by using the one ounce of leverage they'll have - Joe's Bird rights.

Having JJ's Bird rights will benefit the team acquiring him as follows:

Let's assume Joe agrees to a five-year, $90M deal with a team under the cap, Team A. If Team A signs Joe to that deal without the Hawks' help, it will look as follows:

Year 1 - $15.5M

Year 2 - $16.8M

Year 3 - $18.0M

Year 4 - $19.2M

Year 5 - $20.5M

If they speak to the Hawks after Joe agrees to sign, they can work out a S&T as follows:

Year 1 - $14.9M

Year 2 - $16.4M

Year 3 - $18.0M

Year 4 - $19.6M

Year 5 - $21.1M

Why does this matter, you ask? Because Team A, like most of the teams under the cap Joe would agree to sign with, will need to preserve as much salary cap space for this season as possible to sign multiple top free agents.

There are additional benefits of a S&T for all parties:

1. It allows teams over the cap to get into the bidding as well. (In this case, the Hawks would have to take back at least 80% of Joe's initial salary. One of the likely "over the cap bidders" is Dallas, who has a terrific trade chip in Dampier's contract. It is fully non-guaranteed, which means that Dallas could send Dampier to the Hawks as part of the S&T without it costing the Hawks any real cap space as soon as Dampier is waived).

2. It allows Joe to get a sixth year if the bidding for him really picks up. IOW, more money long-term.

3. If a team is under the cap, the result will be a trade exception for the Hawks. Depending on the elements of the trade, the Hawks could acquire a trade exception for as much as $15M. Why should you care? Because that trade exception could then be used to acquire a replacement guard/wing making up to the amount of the exception without having to send an salary in return. For example, the Hawks could use their trade exception to take Corey Maggette off the Warrior's hands. In essence, Maggette would be the player the Hawks traded Joe Johnson for. (Acquiring Dampier's contract could work in the same way).

For these reasons, a trade exception is a must.

I agree 100% that we must find an all-around beneficial sign-and-trade but I don't understand why we would help Dallas out if our plans were to waive Dampier? What do we get out of that? If we were to acquire such a great asset as a TPE then we certainly wouldn't waste it on a mediocre player like Maggette.

Ideal return for JJ would be a TPE, a starter with a small contract and a 2011 1st but ideal usually doesn't occur. Maybe use that TPE to help a top 5 pick team to save some money while picking up their pick.

If I were the GM and believe that JJ is gone then I'd be committed to seeing if I could acquire a top 4 pick in a deal, most likely, including Josh Smith. I think Josh would intrigue Golden St.

[mrhonline]

I agree 100% that we must find an all-around beneficial sign-and-trade but I don't understand why we would help Dallas out if our plans were to waive Dampier? What do we get out of that?

You wouldn't have to waive Dampier unless you couldn't find a suitable trade. He would be the most obvious trading chip in the NBA at that point, so you'd expect Sund to be flooded with offers.

I suggested Maggette because 1.) you're gonna need to replace JJ's scoring if he leaves, and 2.) he's not essential to the W's plans. It was just a suggestion of the kind of value you'd get for Dampier/TPE.

[mrhonline]

Ideal return for JJ would be a TPE, a starter with a small contract and a 2011 1st but ideal usually doesn't occur. Maybe use that TPE to help a top 5 pick team to save some money while picking up their pick.

Going rate appears to be a TPE and a 2nd rounder. That's about it.

If I were the GM and believe that JJ is gone then I'd be committed to seeing if I could acquire a top 4 pick in a deal, most likely, including Josh Smith. I think Josh would intrigue Golden St.

I'm skeptical that Sund would turn over the roster that much, but I'm almost certain that moving Smith would be in a separate trade. His trade kicker complicates things enough to merit a separate trade...

[mrhonline]

No, no no. NO!

Although a TPE would benefit the Hawks, I don't want one. That will spell doom for this message board.

Can't disagree, but we have our obligations to prepare the masses. LOL.

[jezmund]

Going rate appears to be a TPE and a 2nd rounder. That's about it.

I'm skeptical that Sund would turn over the roster that much, but I'm almost certain that moving Smith would be in a separate trade. His trade kicker complicates things enough to merit a separate trade...

You are probably right about Sund which makes me hesitant to believe he is the right man for the job. This roster needs some overhaul. If we aren't going to get much in return for JJ then maybe we can make it a requirement that Bibby is included in the deal. So a TPE, player with similar deal to Bibby and a 2nd. What about JJ/Bibby to Chicago for Hinrich/Gibson/TPE? We improve on perimeter D, get a backup PF and a trade chip in a TPE.

[Guest]

Can't disagree, but we have our obligations to prepare the masses. LOL.

I will help out, but that doesn't mean I have to enjoy it.

I get the feeling that there will be a lot of explaining needed during this off-season.

[Sothron]

If we could swing it, Hinrich would be nice from Chicago or if we could take on Peja's bad contract with the Hornets we could force them to include Collinson to have the PG of the future.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Regardless of the team Joe chooses, the Hawks must do what the Sonics did with Rashard Lewis some time back - get a trade exception. They'll do this by using the one ounce of leverage they'll have - Joe's Bird rights.

Having JJ's Bird rights will benefit the team acquiring him as follows:

Let's assume Joe agrees to a five-year, $90M deal with a team under the cap, Team A. If Team A signs Joe to that deal without the Hawks' help, it will look as follows:

Year 1 - $15.5M

Year 2 - $16.8M

Year 3 - $18.0M

Year 4 - $19.2M

Year 5 - $20.5M

If they speak to the Hawks after Joe agrees to sign, they can work out a S&T as follows:

Year 1 - $14.9M

Year 2 - $16.4M

Year 3 - $18.0M

Year 4 - $19.6M

Year 5 - $21.1M

Why does this matter, you ask? Because Team A, like most of the teams under the cap Joe would agree to sign with, will need to preserve as much salary cap space for this season as possible to sign multiple top free agents.

There are additional benefits of a S&T for all parties:

1. It allows teams over the cap to get into the bidding as well. (In this case, the Hawks would have to take back at least 80% of Joe's initial salary. One of the likely "over the cap bidders" is Dallas, who has a terrific trade chip in Dampier's contract. It is fully non-guaranteed, which means that Dallas could send Dampier to the Hawks as part of the S&T without it costing the Hawks any real cap space as soon as Dampier is waived).

2. It allows Joe to get a sixth year if the bidding for him really picks up. IOW, more money long-term.

3. If a team is under the cap, the result will be a trade exception for the Hawks. Depending on the elements of the trade, the Hawks could acquire a trade exception for as much as $15M. Why should you care? Because that trade exception could then be used to acquire a replacement guard/wing making up to the amount of the exception without having to send an salary in return. For example, the Hawks could use their trade exception to take Corey Maggette off the Warrior's hands. In essence, Maggette would be the player the Hawks traded Joe Johnson for. (Acquiring Dampier's contract could work in the same way).

For these reasons, a trade exception is a must.

Great post.

But this all depends on what is most important to JJ . . . winning? . . . the money? . . . or winning and the money?

I think the team that is going to come full throttle at this dude, is Miami. They have to appease D-Wade somehow, to get him to re-sign. I think Bosh will go to somebody before JJ. Whichever team loses out on Bosh, is going to go hard after JJ. I don't see those lesser teams giving up any talent, in order to add JJ to the roster. Teams like Chicago and Miami are still going to have a ton of cap room to sign JJ, plus add quality dudes to the roster.

God . . . if all we got for JJ, was Dampier's expiring contract ( or any expiring contract ) I will be pizzed. That'll pretty much mean that we are giving up trying to improve for a few years.

Edited May 9, 2010 by northcyde

[mrhonline]

God . . . if all we got for JJ, was Dampier's expiring contract ( or any expiring contract ) I will be pizzed. That'll pretty much mean that we are giving up trying to improve for a few years.

You gotta see Dampier's contract or the TPE as the intermediate step. Sund would then turn around and move the Dampier contract or the TPE for a starter.

[Guest]

God . . . if all we got for JJ, was Dampier's expiring contract ( or any expiring contract ) I will be pizzed. That'll pretty much mean that we are giving up trying to improve for a few years.

We wouldn't let Damp's contract expire. We would trade the contract. His contract is very interesting in that it is fully unguaranteed. A lot of teams would pay a high price for something like that.

[niremetal]

You gotta see Dampier's contract or the TPE as the intermediate step. Sund would then turn around and move the Dampier contract or the TPE for a starter.

It sounds good in theory. But I don't see who we can land with said TPE that would position us to win a title any better than JJ would. I mean, the Nugs aren't giving up Melo, the Hornets will expect way more than cap space for Paul (assuming he's even available - it's pure speculation at this point that he is), etc.

[Kimsey]

Spurs guard Tony Parker, who awaits an MRI on his injured shoulder, might be on the trading block this summer.

ESPN's Marc Stein writes, "[Parker] has only one season left on his contract ($13.5 million) after this season and, according to a recent report in the San Antonio Express-News, has told friends that he's unsure about his future in town after the contract extension recently bestowed upon Ginobili and with second-year guard George Hill capable of playing the same position."

That's a mouthful, and at the very least it sets the stage for an interesting summer."

Tony Parker along with filler(pick possibly) for Joe makes some sense...

[Diesel]

I say we keep Joe at less than the max with a 6 year deal. That's always tradable.

It makes no sense to trade Joe unless he wants to go.

If he wants to go to NY, I want Gallanari and Gallanari alone.

If he wants to go to Chicago, I want Noah.

If he wants to go to New Orleans, I want CP3.

IF he wants to go to Dallas, I want that french PG..

If he wants to go to Houston, I want Lowry and some picks.

If he wants to go to LAL, I want Pau.

If he wants to go to PTL, I would try out Oden (Mr. Glass).

If he wants to go to Miami, I hate Miami's whole team... so I would want draft picks.

If he wants to go to NJ, I want Harris.

If he wants to go to Boston, I want Rondo Or Perk.

[Devon]

send Joe to Memphis (he'd be closer than ever to that $hithole state he's from; Arkansuck) for OJ Mayo and a 1st!!!

Edited May 9, 2010 by Devon

[HAWKSFAN89]

I WANT CB4 here, yeah, I said it.

Bibby

Crawford

Smoove

Horford

Bosh

Beast lineup. K