I get the feeling that we won't be back in the playoffs for some time.

[Diesel]

Let's face the facts. Fans have probably run Joe out of town.

What's left on this roster.

We will have a bunch of Jokers who can't create for themself.

Hawks fans will get a chance to see ONCE AGAIN. The mistake that is Marvin Williams. I think some of you believe that Marvin is Woody's fault or is Joe's fault. Well, he will be put in the spotlight one more time and prove that he's just sorry.

Bibby is done.

Teague is not ready.

Josh will be complaining.

Horf will be looking for a way out.

The owners will wonder what happened to all that TV time and the Extra BRI Money.

We are going to be like the Clipps. No players will want to play here because of the two faced fans.. and the players that we have will develop a gotta get mine attitude.

This is where I say thanks Hawks.

It's like every 10 years, we build a team that can make the playoffs, then right in the middle, we dismantle it and go back to ground zero.

History repeats itself in Atlanta.

I can only hope that we get a Mutombo for this team.

[HawkFoLife]

Calm down son, it's not really going to get that bad. :slap1:

[dakast]

Let's face the facts. Fans have probably run Joe out of town.

What's left on this roster.

We will have a bunch of Jokers who can't create for themself.

Hawks fans will get a chance to see ONCE AGAIN. The mistake that is Marvin Williams. I think some of you believe that Marvin is Woody's fault or is Joe's fault. Well, he will be put in the spotlight one more time and prove that he's just sorry.

Bibby is done.

Teague is not ready.

Josh will be complaining.

Horf will be looking for a way out.

The owners will wonder what happened to all that TV time and the Extra BRI Money.

We are going to be like the Clipps. No players will want to play here because of the two faced fans.. and the players that we have will develop a gotta get mine attitude.

This is where I say thanks Hawks.

It's like every 10 years, we build a team that can make the playoffs, then right in the middle, we dismantle it and go back to ground zero.

History repeats itself in Atlanta.

I can only hope that we get a Mutombo for this team.

So if the fans demand more effort from their team that makes them two faced? :questions:

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Calm down son, it's not really going to get that bad. :slap1:

1999 - The #4 seeded Hawks stagnate in the playoffs, getting swept by the #8 seeded Knicks in the 2nd round. ( that Knick team went on to win the Eastern Conf Finals.) They decide to get rid of Mookie Blaylock and Steve Smith partially due to their poor playoff performances. Smitty averaged 17 ppg in the playoffs, but shot 35% FG. He goes 6 - 17 FG, 2 - 16 FG. 7 - 21 FG,and 5 - 20 FG in the New York series. He shot 20 - 74 or 27% FG . . . ( sound familiar? )

Mookie averaged 12 pts and a whopping 4 assists, while shooting only 33% FG. Mookie had shooting games of 6 - 16 FG, 7 - 20 FG, 5 - 15 FG, and 3 - 15 FG. For the series, he shot 21 - 66 FG or 32% . . . ( sound familiar also? )

Atlanta, deciding that Mookie and Smitty had taken us as far as we could go, trade the duo. Smitty goes to Portland. Mookie goes to Golden St.

In turn, the Hawks go out and bring in a young athletic playerr in Isaiah ( J.R. ) Rider. They also bring in Jim Jackson and Bimbo Coles, along with 1st round draft pick Jason Terry. They will be added to compliment the frontcort "core" of Mutumbo, Alan Henderson, and Laphonzo Ellis.

1999 team went 31 - 19 with a .620 winning percentage

2000 team went 28 - 54 with a .342 winning percentage

Diesel is afraid that history is about to repeat itself. The Hawks had a good season that year, but failed big time in the playoffs. Instead of tweaking the roster and keeping the veteran guards for a little longer, they decide to get rid of the 2 cornerstones of the team, who set the pace offensively and defensively.

Rider and Jackson weren't all bad. They were talented offensive players, although a bit streaky. Defensively though, they were HORRIBLE. The Hawks changed from a defensive oriented team, to a team that couldn't play a lick of defense. Hawks went from the 2nd rated defense in the league . . . to 25th.

JJ is so much a part of the framework of the team, that if we don't bring in the right guy ( or group of guys ), this thing could turn south in a hurry without him . . like it did in 2000 for us.

While people want the team to revolve around Smoove and Horford, the fact is that they NEED a capable PG to run the show, so that he can get them easier shots, instead of them trying to create their own offense ( which they aren't real good at right now ).

The fact is that it's not going to be Smoove and Horford that the team revolves around. It's going to be Jamal Crawford, because as of right now, he's the only guy who can create his own shot. And he will take all of the shots that JJ took . . . out of necessity. Then the question will be . . . who will assume Jamal's current spot? Or better yet, can Horford or Smoove be efficient in an increased offensive role?

Gotta get a PG . . a good PG that can make Smoove and Horford better than what they are right now.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So if the fans demand more effort from their team that makes them two faced? :questions:

No . . . what makes the fans 2-faced, is that they "all of a sudden" act like the really, really care about the Hawks now.

These are the same fans that act like getting to a 7 PM start during the week, is an impossible task . . so some don't even show up. The same fans that when Lebron comes to town, 35% of the crowd is cheering for Lebron, and not the Hawks. The same fans that when a lowly team like Indiana comes to town, they don't show up because it's not a "marquee enough game".

That's what makes them 2-faced.

JJ made that comment about the fans, and it hurt. It hurt because everyone knows that he was telling the truth. It was a stupid, ill-timed comment, especially with the way he played during that series. But it stung because he was telling the truth . . and everybody knew it. They just got mad at him for saying it, after his pizz poor performance.

Edited May 11, 2010 by northcyde

[Plainview1981]

1999 - The #4 seeded Hawks stagnate in the playoffs, getting swept by the #8 seeded Knicks in the 2nd round. ( that Knick team went on to win the Eastern Conf Finals.) They decide to get rid of Mookie Blaylock and Steve Smith partially due to their poor playoff performances. Smitty averaged 17 ppg in the playoffs, but shot 35% FG. He goes 6 - 17 FG, 2 - 16 FG. 7 - 21 FG,and 5 - 20 FG in the New York series. He shot 20 - 74 or 27% FG . . . ( sound familiar? )

Mookie averaged 12 pts and a whopping 4 assists, while shooting only 33% FG. Mookie had shooting games of 6 - 16 FG, 7 - 20 FG, 5 - 15 FG, and 3 - 15 FG. For the series, he shot 21 - 66 FG or 32% . . . ( sound familiar also? )

Atlanta, deciding that Mookie and Smitty had taken us as far as we could go, trade the duo. Smitty goes to Portland. Mookie goes to Golden St.

In turn, the Hawks go out and bring in a young athletic playerr in Isaiah ( J.R. ) Rider. They also bring in Jim Jackson and Bimbo Coles, along with 1st round draft pick Jason Terry. They will be added to compliment the frontcort "core" of Mutumbo, Alan Henderson, and Laphonzo Ellis.

1999 team went 31 - 19 with a .620 winning percentage

2000 team went 28 - 54 with a .342 winning percentage

Diesel is afraid that history is about to repeat itself. The Hawks had a good season that year, but failed big time in the playoffs. Instead of tweaking the roster and keeping the veteran guards for a little longer, they decide to get rid of the 2 cornerstones of the team, who set the pace offensively and defensively.

Rider and Jackson weren't all bad. They were talented offensive players, although a bit streaky. Defensively though, they were HORRIBLE. The Hawks changed from a defensive oriented team, to a team that couldn't play a lick of defense. Hawks went from the 2nd rated defense in the league . . . to 25th.

JJ is so much a part of the framework of the team, that if we don't bring in the right guy ( or group of guys ), this thing could turn south in a hurry without him . . like it did in 2000 for us.

While people want the team to revolve around Smoove and Horford, the fact is that they NEED a capable PG to run the show, so that he can get them easier shots, instead of them trying to create their own offense ( which they aren't real good at right now ).

The fact is that it's not going to be Smoove and Horford that the team revolves around. It's going to be Jamal Crawford, because as of right now, he's the only guy who can create his own shot. And he will take all of the shots that JJ took . . . out of necessity. Then the question will be . . . who will assume Jamal's current spot? Or better yet, can Horford or Smoove be efficient in an increased offensive role?

Gotta get a PG . . a good PG that can make Smoove and Horford better than what they are right now.

Mookie played well for like one more season and Smitty's production took a big drop after that season. That last year they had a TERRIBLE offense. The team averaged like 86PPG or something and Smitty shot 40.9%. His days as a number one guy were over. I think he also had lots of problems with his knee's that season from what I remember. That backcourt was finished. That team got too old.

[OldTimeHawk]

No . . . what makes the fans 2-faced, is that they "all of a sudden" act like the really, really care about the Hawks now.

These are the same fans that act like getting to a 7 PM start during the week, is an impossible task . . so some don't even show up. The same fans that when Lebron comes to town, 35% of the crowd is cheering for Lebron, and not the Hawks. The same fans that when a lowly team like Indiana comes to town, they don't show up because it's not a "marquee enough game".

That's what makes them 2-faced.

JJ made that comment about the fans, and it hurt. It hurt because everyone knows that he was telling the truth. It was a stupid, ill-timed comment, especially with the way he played during that series. But it stung because he was telling the truth . . and everybody knew it. They just got mad at him for saying it, after his pizz poor performance.

Truth or not , if they fans showing up on time affected him that bad ( crunch time ) , thats major sad and a weak @ssed excuse. Maybe Joe should have continued to be the " quiet leader" because blaming the fans for your failures aint gonna make you number one on the fans christmas list.

[NineOhTheRino]

1999 - The #4 seeded Hawks stagnate in the playoffs, getting swept by the #8 seeded Knicks in the 2nd round. ( that Knick team went on to win the Eastern Conf Finals.) They decide to get rid of Mookie Blaylock and Steve Smith partially due to their poor playoff performances. Smitty averaged 17 ppg in the playoffs, but shot 35% FG. He goes 6 - 17 FG, 2 - 16 FG. 7 - 21 FG,and 5 - 20 FG in the New York series. He shot 20 - 74 or 27% FG . . . ( sound familiar? )

Mookie averaged 12 pts and a whopping 4 assists, while shooting only 33% FG. Mookie had shooting games of 6 - 16 FG, 7 - 20 FG, 5 - 15 FG, and 3 - 15 FG. For the series, he shot 21 - 66 FG or 32% . . . ( sound familiar also? )

Atlanta, deciding that Mookie and Smitty had taken us as far as we could go, trade the duo. Smitty goes to Portland. Mookie goes to Golden St.

In turn, the Hawks go out and bring in a young athletic playerr in Isaiah ( J.R. ) Rider. They also bring in Jim Jackson and Bimbo Coles, along with 1st round draft pick Jason Terry. They will be added to compliment the frontcort "core" of Mutumbo, Alan Henderson, and Laphonzo Ellis.

1999 team went 31 - 19 with a .620 winning percentage

2000 team went 28 - 54 with a .342 winning percentage

Diesel is afraid that history is about to repeat itself. The Hawks had a good season that year, but failed big time in the playoffs. Instead of tweaking the roster and keeping the veteran guards for a little longer, they decide to get rid of the 2 cornerstones of the team, who set the pace offensively and defensively.

Rider and Jackson weren't all bad. They were talented offensive players, although a bit streaky. Defensively though, they were HORRIBLE. The Hawks changed from a defensive oriented team, to a team that couldn't play a lick of defense. Hawks went from the 2nd rated defense in the league . . . to 25th.

JJ is so much a part of the framework of the team, that if we don't bring in the right guy ( or group of guys ), this thing could turn south in a hurry without him . . like it did in 2000 for us.

While people want the team to revolve around Smoove and Horford, the fact is that they NEED a capable PG to run the show, so that he can get them easier shots, instead of them trying to create their own offense ( which they aren't real good at right now ).

The fact is that it's not going to be Smoove and Horford that the team revolves around. It's going to be Jamal Crawford, because as of right now, he's the only guy who can create his own shot. And he will take all of the shots that JJ took . . . out of necessity. Then the question will be . . . who will assume Jamal's current spot? Or better yet, can Horford or Smoove be efficient in an increased offensive role?

Gotta get a PG . . a good PG that can make Smoove and Horford better than what they are right now.

This post should be framed. Good stuff.

[macdaddy]

No . . . what makes the fans 2-faced, is that they "all of a sudden" act like the really, really care about the Hawks now.

These are the same fans that act like getting to a 7 PM start during the week, is an impossible task . . so some don't even show up. The same fans that when Lebron comes to town, 35% of the crowd is cheering for Lebron, and not the Hawks. The same fans that when a lowly team like Indiana comes to town, they don't show up because it's not a "marquee enough game".

That's what makes them 2-faced.

JJ made that comment about the fans, and it hurt. It hurt because everyone knows that he was telling the truth. It was a stupid, ill-timed comment, especially with the way he played during that series. But it stung because he was telling the truth . . and everybody knew it. They just got mad at him for saying it, after his pizz poor performance.

What truth was he telling? He said he could care less if the fans show up. So you're saying that he could really care less if the fans show up? Ok fine. If he's telling the truth then he's an idiot because he doesn't understand where his paycheck comes from. I guess you are reading into that that he is saying the fans in Atlanta aren't all that great because they haven't been showing up?

The truth is that there are a lot of diehard fans in Atlanta who don't need to be lumped in with the casual fans everytime a delicate player gets his feelings hurt. The other truth is there are a lot of knowledgable fans in Atlanta who can tell the difference between a contender and a pretender. With the Braves was it coincidental that playoff games stopped selling out at the same time the Braves stopped winning in the playoffs?

We're all diehards here (on this board) and are much too emotionally wrapped up to see what the casual Atlanta fan has been seeing. A team without a larger than life star, a team that often folds on national tv against the Cavs, Lakers, Magic. If you're a casual fan do you notice 53 wins or do you notice a thanksgiving day debacle? How many times have these guys failed on the big stage and then after failing again in historic fashion you're going to tell your fans you don't care about them. That'll put butts in the seats.

[hawkman]

1999 - The #4 seeded Hawks stagnate in the playoffs, getting swept by the #8 seeded Knicks in the 2nd round. ( that Knick team went on to win the Eastern Conf Finals.) They decide to get rid of Mookie Blaylock and Steve Smith partially due to their poor playoff performances. Smitty averaged 17 ppg in the playoffs, but shot 35% FG. He goes 6 - 17 FG, 2 - 16 FG. 7 - 21 FG,and 5 - 20 FG in the New York series. He shot 20 - 74 or 27% FG . . . ( sound familiar? )

Mookie averaged 12 pts and a whopping 4 assists, while shooting only 33% FG. Mookie had shooting games of 6 - 16 FG, 7 - 20 FG, 5 - 15 FG, and 3 - 15 FG. For the series, he shot 21 - 66 FG or 32% . . . ( sound familiar also? )

Atlanta, deciding that Mookie and Smitty had taken us as far as we could go, trade the duo. Smitty goes to Portland. Mookie goes to Golden St.

In turn, the Hawks go out and bring in a young athletic playerr in Isaiah ( J.R. ) Rider. They also bring in Jim Jackson and Bimbo Coles, along with 1st round draft pick Jason Terry. They will be added to compliment the frontcort "core" of Mutumbo, Alan Henderson, and Laphonzo Ellis.

1999 team went 31 - 19 with a .620 winning percentage

2000 team went 28 - 54 with a .342 winning percentage

Diesel is afraid that history is about to repeat itself. The Hawks had a good season that year, but failed big time in the playoffs. Instead of tweaking the roster and keeping the veteran guards for a little longer, they decide to get rid of the 2 cornerstones of the team, who set the pace offensively and defensively.

Rider and Jackson weren't all bad. They were talented offensive players, although a bit streaky. Defensively though, they were HORRIBLE. The Hawks changed from a defensive oriented team, to a team that couldn't play a lick of defense. Hawks went from the 2nd rated defense in the league . . . to 25th.

JJ is so much a part of the framework of the team, that if we don't bring in the right guy ( or group of guys ), this thing could turn south in a hurry without him . . like it did in 2000 for us.

While people want the team to revolve around Smoove and Horford, the fact is that they NEED a capable PG to run the show, so that he can get them easier shots, instead of them trying to create their own offense ( which they aren't real good at right now ).

The fact is that it's not going to be Smoove and Horford that the team revolves around. It's going to be Jamal Crawford, because as of right now, he's the only guy who can create his own shot. And he will take all of the shots that JJ took . . . out of necessity. Then the question will be . . . who will assume Jamal's current spot? Or better yet, can Horford or Smoove be efficient in an increased offensive role?

Gotta get a PG . . a good PG that can make Smoove and Horford better than what they are right now.

I was around when this actually happened. I DO NOT want history to repeat itself. Keep the team together and get a new head coach. The difference between this team and the Mookie/Smitty team is that this team is not that old. There's still room to grow. A little tweak here and there and we will be ECF contenders.

[AHF]

To Diesel's post, I agree that this team peaked for the immediate future this season and that this peak was utterly wasted by the focus on regular season success at the expense of developing the tools we needed to compete in the playoffs.

Without JJ this team is not as good. No question about it. Whether Woodson returns or -- much more likely -- a new coach steps in, this team minus JJ won't be at the same level and won't win as many games. I do think, however, that with a good coach this team can be competitive in a hurry and be able to be in the playoffs this year or next at the latest.

If JJ returns, I don't see any reason to expect a big falloff. If our All-Star does a S&T that nets us some real value, we should be back this year. If JJ just walks, then we will have a challenge on our hands.

[coachx]

Horf will be looking for a way out.

Al will be a resticted free agent in 2011-12. Hawks are matching any offer to keep him as along as the salary cap is not wrecked first.

Crawford will aslo be an expiring contract.

Edited May 11, 2010 by coachx

[Diesel]

Calm down son, it's not really going to get that bad. :slap1:

So a slapping icon is your only retort?

What have I said that is untrue?

Let's get some meat to your argument.

I mean, anybody can put up icon... watch... :zipper: :shock11: :sobbing: :kickcan:

[Diesel]

So if the fans demand more effort from their team that makes them two faced? :questions:

Dakast, when have the "fans" of Atlanta ever been solidly behind the Hawks?

Why is it that for the longest....

When Jordan comes to town, When Lebron Comes to town, When Shaq comes to town, When Howard comes to town, when AI comes to town... When Kobe comes to town... that they have more people cheering for them than the Hawks do??

I have been following the Hawks a long time... and these are some two faced fans. I was there when Indiana filled the Omni with their fanbase. It felt like a Pacer home game for the playoffs. Last night was just ridiculous, how do you boo your own players during introduction... when they take a shoot, when they have the ball...

Yeah... That's TWOFACED.

[Diesel]

Mookie played well for like one more season and Smitty's production took a big drop after that season. That last year they had a TERRIBLE offense. The team averaged like 86PPG or something and Smitty shot 40.9%. His days as a number one guy were over. I think he also had lots of problems with his knee's that season from what I remember. That backcourt was finished. That team got too old.

Mookie went to a lottery team who was in the midst of an identity crisis. Smitty went to a PTL team that had 30,000 star players. Still, for PTL Smitty was one of their top guys. Then after that (4 yrs later), he helped Duncan win a ring.

[Buzzard]

I have been following the Hawks a long time... and these are some two faced fans. I was there when Indiana filled the Omni with their fanbase. It felt like a Pacer home game for the playoffs. Last night was just ridiculous, how do you boo your own players during introduction... when they take a shoot, when they have the ball...

Yeah... That's TWOFACED.

Come on Diesel lets be resonable here. When a player who makes 12 million a year because of the fans, says he could careless about them, the boo birds come out in full force. If your wife said she could careless about you, would you go out and buy her a new diamond necklace?

JJ is the two faced one; taking his big money and not giving a rats *ss about the people who are responsible for that pay check.

Edited May 11, 2010 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

Come on Diesel lets be resonable here. When a player who makes 12 million a year because of the fans, says he could careless about them, the boo birds come out in full force. If your wife said she could careless about you, would you go out and buy her a new diamond necklace?

JJ is the two faced one; taking his big money and not giving a rats *ss about the people who are responsible for that pay check.

First off, JJ didn't have to come here in the first place. We would have been a nothing doing going back to the lottery getting another Sf team had he not come.

Buzz.

Once you get married, you will find that sometimes, you say things in the heat of the moment.... and yes, you still love them. You still support them. You still would buy them a diamond necklace. Because it's not about the heat of that moment, but it's about everything.

I think that while he was here, JJ put it all on the court. He played hard. He came to us when we were a 13 win team.. and he weathered the Esteban Batistas, Anthony Grundy's, the John Edwards and the Salim Stoudamires. Do you know how many of the guys that have been Hawks during the time we had Joe are no longer in the league now?? This is what Joe played with. He asked for help, we got him Bibby. We kept babies around him and he never complained. Even this year, when we could have picked up some meaningful FAs like Stackhouse, what did we do? Nothing. So yea, Joe is due one heat of the moment exchange after being booed by a crowd that certainly wasn't around when he was building this team with little help...

[coachx]

Come on Diesel lets be resonable here. When a player who makes 12 million 15 million a year because of the fans, says he could careless about them, the boo birds come out in full force.

Fixed

[Buzzard]

First off, JJ didn't have to come here in the first place. We would have been a nothing doing going back to the lottery getting another Sf team had he not come.

Buzz.

Once you get married, you will find that sometimes, you say things in the heat of the moment.... and yes, you still love them. You still support them. You still would buy them a diamond necklace. Because it's not about the heat of that moment, but it's about everything.

I think that while he was here, JJ put it all on the court. He played hard. He came to us when we were a 13 win team.. and he weathered the Esteban Batistas, Anthony Grundy's, the John Edwards and the Salim Stoudamires. Do you know how many of the guys that have been Hawks during the time we had Joe are no longer in the league now?? This is what Joe played with. He asked for help, we got him Bibby. We kept babies around him and he never complained. Even this year, when we could have picked up some meaningful FAs like Stackhouse, what did we do? Nothing. So yea, Joe is due one heat of the moment exchange after being booed by a crowd that certainly wasn't around when he was building this team with little help...

A NBA player does not say that Diesel and expect the fans to give him a standing ovation. JJ came here because he had a chance to make big money and become a lead dog. Atl is a great city to live in as well. He was not loyal to the Suns fans and he showed his true colors with that statement. The man cares about his living conditions which is understandable but he has no heart what so ever for the fans IMO.

He wants his and he will get his. But a lead(er) dog he is not....

[Atlantaholic]

It's crazy to assume any other fan base would react differently. JJ pulls this on ANY NBA team and see how the fans react to it. Let him go to Philly, New York, Chicago and if he shoots 30% in conference semis AND disses the fans... Well, he will be lucky to make it out of the arena in one piece.

I love JJ, he is a great player. But he has never really seemed to care all that much about the team or the fans. If you expect to get the fans to love you you need more than just consistently good play. You need to inspire them, get them to believe you are a leader and a champion. JJ was never, ever that guy.