News said JJ will be offered 90 Million

[coachx]

Yes. Crawford is more valuable than Harris.

Harris is a 27% shooter from three. He was the PG of a team that won what... 10 games? I like Harris don't get me wrong. I just don't think we should trade Craw for him.

He is not a 3 point shooter.........he is like Tony Parker but hass better court vision and is a better passer then Parker.

He was the PG on many 50 win Dallas teams and became the stating PG for them in the playoffs of 2006 when they happened to make it to the NBA Finals.

Harris has All NBA Defensive skills. Crawford's defense is average at best and is below average vs. PGs where the Hawks mostly played him.

[Sothron]

Can I add Collison.......Calderon....Tyreke Evans..... and Brandon Jennings to that list before Harris?

I like Harris, but coaches don't keep him on the floor because he shoots 27% from 3 and can't spread the defense.

Collison is good but only has one year behind him, Evans is a shooting guard, Jennings was HORRIBLE during the regular season with his shooting. Harris isn't a three point guy but he's a lightning quick slasher who penetrates and is a good perimeter defender.

[Diesel]

Collison is good but only has one year behind him, Evans is a shooting guard, Jennings was HORRIBLE during the regular season with his shooting. Harris isn't a three point guy but he's a lightning quick slasher who penetrates and is a good perimeter defender.

You've described Nate Robinson without the shooting.

[coachx]

Harris isn't a three point guy but he's a lightning quick slasher who penetrates and is a good perimeter defender.

Niether are Rondo, Tony Parker, or our own Jeff Teague. Harris is a guy you have to surround with shooters. He would be great with JJ........Marvin would either need to improve is shooting to what it was in 2009 or we would need a wing who could shoot the lights out.

Harris's ability to break down defenders and create off the dribble is elite. His perimeter defense is elite. Both of those skills are proven commodities. When you have other elite skills its OK to have a weakness if you play for a team with players that fit your strength and weaknesses. Look at Rondo.

This is a PG heavy league now. We need a PG who can defend the position. I hope that guy is Teague too but that is no sure thing.

Edited May 12, 2010 by coachx

[Diesel]

Collison is good but only has one year behind him, Evans is a shooting guard, Jennings was HORRIBLE during the regular season with his shooting. Harris isn't a three point guy but he's a lightning quick slasher who penetrates and is a good perimeter defender.

The myth is that Harris is a good defender.

There's also more showing CP3 and other elites just abusing Harris.

Take this quote to heart...

"This subject has been talked about ever since Devin Harris arrived in New Jersey. In Dallas, Harris was considered a pretty good defender, but since becoming a Net, that reputation has taken a complete 180. It isn’t because he doesn’t have the skillset to be a good defender, far from it. Devin has great footspeed and an ability to stay in front of his man, but for whatever reason (poor technique, not wanting too, fatigue), he just doesn’t get it done."

And this:

"April 27th, 2010 at 1:53 PM

DH is definetly the biggest disapointment of 2010.

Remember how he complained that he should have won MIP last year?

DH is a diva.

DH might not be a top 20 pg right now.

DH was burned by every rookie pg this year.

DH was not in shape for training camp.

Groin problems in the beginning of the season mean you haven’t been working out.

Remember when LFrank benched VC and DH in the Boston game in 2008? DH took it personal and probably never recovered.

DH was supposed to learn how to be a leader from VC… he only learned how to say the right things….

DH needs to be traded, even if the Nets don’t get Wall. TWill proved he can be a real PG.

There are a few teams that could use a young PG

Lakers, Clippers, DC, MIA, Philly

Send DH and Yi to the Lakers for Odom

Or

DH to Philly for Dalembert"

[Sothron]

The myth is that Harris is a good defender.

There's also more showing CP3 and other elites just abusing Harris.

Take this quote to heart...

"This subject has been talked about ever since Devin Harris arrived in New Jersey. In Dallas, Harris was considered a pretty good defender, but since becoming a Net, that reputation has taken a complete 180. It isn’t because he doesn’t have the skillset to be a good defender, far from it. Devin has great footspeed and an ability to stay in front of his man, but for whatever reason (poor technique, not wanting too, fatigue), he just doesn’t get it done."

And this:

"April 27th, 2010 at 1:53 PM

DH is definetly the biggest disapointment of 2010.

Remember how he complained that he should have won MIP last year?

DH is a diva.

DH might not be a top 20 pg right now.

DH was burned by every rookie pg this year.

DH was not in shape for training camp.

Groin problems in the beginning of the season mean you haven’t been working out.

Remember when LFrank benched VC and DH in the Boston game in 2008? DH took it personal and probably never recovered.

DH was supposed to learn how to be a leader from VC… he only learned how to say the right things….

DH needs to be traded, even if the Nets don’t get Wall. TWill proved he can be a real PG.

There are a few teams that could use a young PG

Lakers, Clippers, DC, MIA, Philly

Send DH and Yi to the Lakers for Odom

Or

DH to Philly for Dalembert"

Harris was injured last year. Every player has bad games so I'm not sure what the criticism is coming from. We all know Harris isn't a shooter but that's not what you ask him to do. He needs to penetrate and get people involved on offense and hold his own on defense. He does all of those things. I'm not suggesting we are going to get the guy in a trade but if we are debating the player just as the player then I don't see how you can criticize him for anything other than his shooting and possibly his ability to stay healthy.

[Diesel]

Harris was injured last year. Every player has bad games so I'm not sure what the criticism is coming from. We all know Harris isn't a shooter but that's not what you ask him to do. He needs to penetrate and get people involved on offense and hold his own on defense. He does all of those things. I'm not suggesting we are going to get the guy in a trade but if we are debating the player just as the player then I don't see how you can criticize him for anything other than his shooting and possibly his ability to stay healthy.

I've been reading up on Harris. Since going to NJ, his "great defense" or "elite defense' has become less than average defense. If you went to the link, you saw Arroyo just blow by him defensively. That was 2010. I can find you some Youtube footage with every other rookie blowing past him if you like. Then there's 2009, 2008 when CP3 made him his own personal b0tch. And so did most elite PGs.

The real defender in NJ right now is Keyon Dooling. Dooling shut down most of the guys he played... He's a man on defender that Harris wishes he could be like. (Harris said that).

Dooling should be available this year. We can get him with our 2 M exemption if we decide to go with Teague as starter.

[Buzzard]

Niether are Rondo, Tony Parker, or our own Jeff Teague. Harris is a guy you have to surround with shooters. He would be great with JJ........Marvin would either need to improve is shooting to what it was in 2009 or we would need a wing who could shoot the lights out.

Harris's ability to break down defenders and create off the dribble is elite. His perimeter defense is elite. Both of those skills are proven commodities. When you have other elite skills its OK to have a weakness if you play for a team with players that fit your strength and weaknesses. Look at Rondo.

This is a PG heavy league now. We need a PG who can defend the position. I hope that guy is Teague too but that is no sure thing.

I agree 100% coach. Devin would be a great fit. I do not understand why anyone would consider Crawford a better fit for us than Harris. The guy is a top 10 PG in assist per game and is 21st in Efficiency against all guards in the league. Almost everyone on the board agrees we need that in the worse way; yet some think he is not good enough to give up Craw for.

Links:

APG

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Assists.jsp?league=00&season=22009&conf=OVERALL&position=5&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Efficiency

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=22009&conf=OVERALL&position=5&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but IMO, Harris is a can't miss starter for us.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

I agree 100% coach. Devin would be a great fit. I do not understand why anyone would consider Crawford a better fit for us than Harris. The guy is a top 10 PG in assist per game and is 21st in Efficiency ranking against all guards in the league. Almost everyone on the board agrees we need that in the worse way; yet some think he is not good enough to give up Craw for.

Links:

APG

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Assists.jsp?league=00&season=22009&conf=OVERALL&position=5&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Efficiency

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp?league=00&season=22009&conf=OVERALL&position=5&splitType=9&splitScope=GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but IMO, Harris is a can't miss starter for us.

You got to look at it from a perspective that most statheads fail to..

Bench.

I think it was you who said in another post that the starting 5 wins championships.

That sounds really catchy... but it's not true at all.

You can't point to a championship team that didn't have a bench.

Now that we have established Craw off the bench, you have to notice that it's an incredible weapon when you have a guy who can come off the bench with a green light and who puts up 18 ppg. It is what kills defenses to have to figure out how they will guard that dude coming off the bench.

I agree that we have to fix the SF and PG spots on our team, but I would hate to have a great 5 and nothing on the bench.... that's a recipe for losing.

[AHF]

Can I add Collison.......Calderon....Tyreke Evans..... and Brandon Jennings to that list before Harris?

I like Harris, but coaches don't keep him on the floor because he shoots 27% from 3 and can't spread the defense.

Not Calderon for sure. Evans is a PG in the way that JJ is a PG. I am not yet sold on Collison.

For me, Harris > Crawford but he isn't a true "All-Star" PG. He is a borderline All-Star in his best years.

[Sothron]

You've described Nate Robinson without the shooting.

I can't believe you actually said that. :cant believe: That's like comparing Ray Allen to Wesley Person.

Harris's numbers from last season:

* Ranks #8 in the NBA in Assists Per Game (6.6)

* Ranks #38 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game (34.7)

* Ranks #1 in the NBA in Free Throws (308)

* Ranks #1 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts (386)

* Ranks #1 in the NBA in Assists (423)

* Ranks #14 in the NBA in Assists Per Turnover (2.34)

* Ranks #24 in the NBA in Field-Goal Attempts Per 48 Minutes (19.11)

* Ranks #18 in the NBA in Free Throws Per 48 Minutes (6.66)

* Ranks #22 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts Per 48 Minutes (8.34)

* Ranks #4 in the NBA in Assists Per 48 Minutes (9.1)

* Ranks #32 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes (1.71)

* Ranks #33 in the NBA in Points Per 48 Minutes (23.3)

* Ranks #1 in the NBA in Total Turnovers (181)

* Ranks #16 in the NBA in Turnovers Per 48 Minutes (3.91)

I'll take a wild stab and say we could use a point guard that led the entire NBA in free throws and attempts and also has a great assist/to ratio. He's a good defender as well, I don't care about youtube videos. Deron Williams routinely makes Chris Paul his b*tch as you put it, does that mean Paul is crap?

All of this being said I think we're just talking to talk. I don't think we're getting Harris.

[coachx]

You got to look at it from a perspective that most statheads fail to..

Bench.

I think it was you who said in another post that the starting 5 wins championships.

That sounds really catchy... but it's not true at all.

You can't point to a championship team that didn't have a bench.

Now that we have established Craw off the bench, you have to notice that it's an incredible weapon when you have a guy who can come off the bench with a green light and who puts up 18 ppg. It is what kills defenses to have to figure out how they will guard that dude coming off the bench.

I agree that we have to fix the SF and PG spots on our team, but I would hate to have a great 5 and nothing on the bench.... that's a recipe for losing.

So where do you stand ?

Would Crawford or Harris help this team the most ?

Which role is easier to fill ,a 30 year old elite scorer off the bench or a 27 year old top 10 starting PG ? We could sign Flip for $2 mill or, as Diesel says, K. Dooling for $2 mill. Which one of those guys best fills the hole left by the other ?

I'd love to sit on Teague and hope he turns into the next Harris / Parker type of PG and keep Crawford....................I just can't bet the farm that it happens.

Edited May 12, 2010 by coachx

[coachx]

* Ranks #1 in the NBA in Free Throws (308)

* Ranks #1 in the NBA in Free Throw Attempts (386)

* Ranks #1 in the NBA in Assists (423)

We could really use that during our scoring droughts. A guy who can get to the line and create easier shots for others.

[DeacKillsaDevil]

As Hubie Brown mentioned, be careful bringing in players from bad teams who had no pressure to a team expecting to win and go to the playoffs. Not to say it couldn't work but be careful.

A perfect example, although it's a non-basketball one, is Dan Kolb. That guy was AWFUL as soon as he got to the Braves and had to close games that mattered.

Edited May 12, 2010 by DeacKillsaDevil

[GameTime]

I'd love to sit on Teague and hope he turns into the next Harris / Parker type of PG and keep Crawford....................I just can't bet the farm that it happens.

If we have to, Harris and Teague can be our CP3/Collison (TP9/George Hill). Nothing wrong with that for now.

Harris gets to the line more than any other PG.

Edited May 12, 2010 by GameTime

[coachx]

As Hubie Brown mentioned, be careful bringing in players from bad teams who had no pressure to a team expecting to win and go to the playoffs. Not to say it couldn't work but be careful.

A perfect example, although it's a non-basketball one, is Dan Kolb. That guy was AWFUL as soon as he got to the Braves and had to close games that mattered.

This is so different............................you do realize Harris spent the majority of his career as the starting PG for the Dallas Mavericks as they racked up several 50 + win seasons. He became their starting PG during the playoffs of his 2nd season, under Avery Johnson, when the Mavs went to the NBA Finals.

Its not like he has not played for a winner as recently as 2009, when he was traded from the Mavs to the putrid Nets.

Edited May 12, 2010 by coachx

[Guest]

I'd rather do a 4 or 5 year deal with JJ at 15 mill per. But if 6 is what it takes then I guess I'm on board with it.

[Guest]

If all they reported was $90 mill............then we all hope its spread over 6 years and not 5 years.

Oh geez, I didn't even think of that. 18 mill vs 15 mill. I hope it's 6 then. I mean can't JJ give us a hometown discount for his second round performance. :conversation:

[Crank]

This is so different............................you do realize Harris spent the majority of his career as the starting PG for the Dallas Mavericks as they racked up several 50 + win seasons. He became their starting PG during the playoffs of his 2nd season, under Avery Johnson, when the Mavs went to the NBA Finals.

Its not like he has not played for a winner as recently as 2009, when he was traded from the Mavs to the putrid Nets.

Hes never started a full year in the nba in fact hes never played a full season .

He split minutes at point guard his first year starting averaged 10 ppg and 3 apg and then the next season they moved him for kidd midway through .

You are hyping him not on what he did with the Mavs because with the Mavs he was really a player who split minutes with Barea,Lue,anthony Johnson and the one year he actually cracked 30 mpg they traded him .

you are hyping him off of what he did with the Nets because he didnt no anything with the Mavs which is why they traded him for Kidd .

Im not gonna say he sucks but suddenly youve hyped his game to ridiculous proportions .

My link

[Diesel]

We could really use that during our scoring droughts. A guy who can get to the line and create easier shots for others.

Somebody has been misleading...

Here are the NBA Gaurds FTA sort...

1

Dwyane Wade , MIA

76 26.5 7.0 9.1 529 695 .761

2

Kobe Bryant , LAL

73 27.0 6.0 7.4 439 541 .811

3

Chauncey Billups , DEN

73 19.5 6.4 7.0 466 512 .910

4

* Tyreke Evans , SAC

72 20.1 4.8 6.5 348 465 .748

5

Brandon Roy , POR

65 21.5 5.3 6.8 343 440 .780

6

Stephen Jackson , CHA-GSW

81 20.6 4.2 5.4 338 434 .779

7

Russell Westbrook , OKC

82 16.1 4.0 5.1 329 422 .780

8

Deron Williams , UTA

76 18.7 4.4 5.5 335 418 .801

9

Andre Miller , POR

82 14.0 3.9 4.8 322 392 .821

10

Monta Ellis , GSW

64 25.5 4.6 6.1 292 388 .753

11

Devin Harris , NJN

64 16.9 4.8 6.0 308 386 .798

Somebody is making up stats and this is just the guards... I haven't even done it for all the players in the nba.

He's 29th if we add all the players in the NBA.