In The End- Mike Woodson Not Given A Fair Deal

[BusBoyIsBack]

I know this front office was really patient with Woody sticking it out during those rebuilding years, but in the end they overreacted to the emotions of the sweep.

We literally set an NBA record for consecutive years of improving our win percentage. Obviously there is nowhere to go but up when you win 13 games but we also increased our seed in the playoffs the past 3 seasons as well. In fact this year to our detirment because Orlando was the worst possible matchup in the entire NBA for us.

People are complaining that we were not competitive in that series. Have people forgotten what that Orlando team did to the 66 win Cavs last year? And this team looks even more formidable than that one.

We simply do not have the bonafide superstar player that it takes to win a championship so we should accept the fact that we are a playoff team and not a championship caliber team . And that's not the worst thing in the world either. Only half a dozen teams have won a title in the past 3 decades.

[mrhonline]

And the revisionism begins...

[OldTimeHawk]

lots of teams dont match up well in series , but good coaches get their players ready to play . If Woody had of had his teams ready to compete, and lost , we wouldnt be having this discussion.

[lethalweapon3]

Even though the public statements are playoff-centric, I trust that Sund and the management team looked well beyond just the sour cherry (the Magic series) to view the whole crap sundae that the full season's worth of coaching produced. The Golden State and Knicks debacles, the blown 4th quarter leads, getting outfoxed not by a fellow coach but by Jason Kidd, etc. There were plenty of good moments too, but just not enough to mask the horrific ones.

Now everyone recognizes that Woody got some bad groceries to cook with (Marvin, Shelden, Acie...) and that he was simply (and successfully) installing systems that compensated for the lack of a reliable PG and SF and a modestly sized frontcourt rotation. How he managed to get 53 wins out of 3 decent starters is what will ensure him another job in the near future. But given a limited ability to make roster moves, Sund, like many of us here, saw no reason to believe Woody and his staff have a plan that can spin any more gold out of all this straw.

The blown lotto picks were not Sund's fault, but with bringing back guys like Marvin and Bibby, Sund must have been convinced by Woody that he and his assistants could install something that would make this team championship-caliber (or, at least, capable of playing within ten points of the defending Eastern Conference title holders, both before and during the playoffs) without a whole lot of new pieces. Beyond his disappointment in this area, he must have been unnerved to see Marvin version 2010 look not much better than Marvin circa 2008, or to see Jeff Teague in April look a lot like Jeff Teague in September. So the team's two youngest players were not developing, and the oldest, Sund's free agent pickup Joe Smith, had no clear contributing role all season long. Not good factors heading into the playoffs when depth at critical positions is needed.

Lacking the ability to make adjustments to his ****-works switching defense and his devil-may-care isolation offense, particularly when the **** doesn't work, the playoffs only served to illustrate that Woody had no more tricks up his sleeve, even with his job on the line. A historically bad playoff performance was a stunning outcome to many, but not so much to those who have watched Woodyball unfold all season long.

~lw3

[NJHAWK]

Exactamundo. I want to see if Rick Sund, well in reality Mike Gearon hold these players accountable. The ones who were walking up and down the court and going through the motions during the playoffs. Mike Woodson should still be coaching the Hawks. He is a scapegoat.

[lethalweapon3]

I shouldn't be piling on but the other factors:

* Clock management at the ends of games. If you could give life to the seconds wasted in the closing minutes with the team behind, your toddler would be learning how to walk by now.

* Time outs. Specifically, employing them either at odd, Hawk-momentum-killing times, or about three plays too late to undo the damage from an opposing's team run.

* First plays coming out of time outs and haltimes. During his tenure, how many times did we scream, "We called a timeout for this?!?" It only became more glaring during the playoffs because now we had a national audience asking the same question.

~lw3

[High5]

How did Woodson not get a fair deal? I don't know of anyone who asked him to turn the Hawks into NBA Champions. I don't even know of anyone who asked him to get the Hawks out of the 2nd round. He never had to players to have those expectations. He was given six years to turn the Hawks into a fundamentally sound and hardworking basketball team. Six years later we're still the same lazy team playing the same ineffective street ball and the ultimate result was one of the most embarrassing playoff performances in NBA history. People can put all of the blame on the players (who deserve plenty), but if the coach can't get his players to play hard and play smart, what good is he?

You can harp on his regular season improvements all you want, but did his teams ever finish higher than they should have? Look at everyone the Hawks have beaten out for playoffs spots these last 3 years and find a team they didn't have plenty more talent then. The only team is Boston, but they coasted through the season and basically forfeited the end of the year to get healthy. I pray our next coach isn't a bum for all the obvious reasons, but I also don't want to hear how Woodson would have taken us to the promised land if he was given a chance. Stop making excuses and let him go.

[Hoopsterino]

According to most analysts in the know the Hawks don't have a single A+ "Game Changer" player, but do have several B "Very good regular season" players.

No dominant point guard or center.

Woodson was a very average, learning on the job, defensive minded coach. Weak on offense. Mediocre motivator. Below average in making adjustments, in game....................when needed.

You add all that up and what you get is a team that plays well in the comforts of home during the regular season, mediocre on the road, and below mediocre against a real contender in the playoffs.

Adios Woody.

[Plainview1981]

How did Woodson not get a fair deal? I don't know of anyone who asked him to turn the Hawks into NBA Champions. I don't even know of anyone who asked him to get the Hawks out of the 2nd round. He never had to players to have those expectations. He was given six years to turn the Hawks into a fundamentally sound and hardworking basketball team. Six years later we're still the same lazy team playing the same ineffective street ball and the ultimate result was one of the most embarrassing playoff performances in NBA history. People can put all of the blame on the players (who deserve plenty), but if the coach can't get his players to play hard and play smart, what good is he?

You can harp on his regular season improvements all you want, but did his teams ever finish higher than they should have? Look at everyone the Hawks have beaten out for playoffs spots these last 3 years and find a team they didn't have plenty more talent then. The only team is Boston, but they coasted through the season and basically forfeited the end of the year to get healthy. I pray our next coach isn't a bum for all the obvious reasons, but I also don't want to hear how Woodson would have taken us to the promised land if he was given a chance. Stop making excuses and let him go.

The results in the post season show what kind of team you have. NOT the regular season. This damn team almost lost to a mediocre Bucks team that didn't have their two best players. During the Hawks "playoff run" the 53 win season looked fairly irrelevant.

[dakast]

I know this front office was really patient with Woody sticking it out during those rebuilding years, but in the end they overreacted to the emotions of the sweep.

We literally set an NBA record for consecutive years of improving our win percentage. Obviously there is nowhere to go but up when you win 13 games but we also increased our seed in the playoffs the past 3 seasons as well. In fact this year to our detirment because Orlando was the worst possible matchup in the entire NBA for us.

People are complaining that we were not competitive in that series. Have people forgotten what that Orlando team did to the 66 win Cavs last year? And this team looks even more formidable than that one.

We simply do not have the bonafide superstar player that it takes to win a championship so we should accept the fact that we are a playoff team and not a championship caliber team . And that's not the worst thing in the world either. Only half a dozen teams have won a title in the past 3 decades.

:huh:

[Hoopsterino]

The results in the post season show what kind of team you have. NOT the regular season. This damn team almost lost to a mediocre Bucks team that didn't have their two best players. During the Hawks "playoff run" the 53 win season looked fairly irrelevant.

Amen.

[Diesel]

Woody never held these players accountable for anything. He refused to adjust. He had taken the team as far as he could.

When you are the coach of the most lopsided series in basketball history after being swept in the second round the year before, you might be replaced.

For Wood's defense, I say.. at least he wasn't fired when BK wanted to fire him.

Woody got a great chance to prove himself and he did. He'll probably land in Philly or LAC.

[bumpyphish1]

BusBoy, you're still a hack.

It's Billy Knight that wasn't given a fair deal. Woody is a bum. Pure and simple.

[Vol4ever]

Exactamundo. I want to see if Rick Sund, well in reality Mike Gearon hold these players accountable. The ones who were walking up and down the court and going through the motions during the playoffs. Mike Woodson should still be coaching the Hawks. He is a scapegoat.

I agree. Lets watch the complaining this time next year when they realize Woody done a pretty damn good job!

[Dexmethylphenidate]

I agree. Lets watch the complaining this time next year when they realize Woody done a pretty damn good job!

Complaining about what? that we should've fired him 2 years ago?

If they keep the core together, meaning resigning JJ... there's no question that they will be more competitive team in the east than this year. The team is still young, the natural maturation plus a coach that can manage the game well will push the Hawks to another level. I'm willing to put 20 bucks on the line for HS.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I know this front office was really patient with Woody sticking it out during those rebuilding years, but in the end they overreacted to the emotions of the sweep.

We literally set an NBA record for consecutive years of improving our win percentage. Obviously there is nowhere to go but up when you win 13 games but we also increased our seed in the playoffs the past 3 seasons as well. In fact this year to our detirment because Orlando was the worst possible matchup in the entire NBA for us.

People are complaining that we were not competitive in that series. Have people forgotten what that Orlando team did to the 66 win Cavs last year? And this team looks even more formidable than that one.

We simply do not have the bonafide superstar player that it takes to win a championship so we should accept the fact that we are a playoff team and not a championship caliber team . And that's not the worst thing in the world either. Only half a dozen teams have won a title in the past 3 decades.

Bus, we definitely should've been more competitive in the Orlando series. But I do agree with you.

This was a Marty Schottenheimer type firing, in which Marty would have a real good regular season team, but they never could win the big playoff game. So ownership fires Marty, thinking that a "different voice" ( whether it's a current assistant coach or a coach from somewhere else ), can get the team over the hump and to a championship. Ask Norv Turner how that's turned out the last 3 or 4 years.

The easiest thing to do is to make a coaching change before blowing up a squad or trading a piece or two off. So this is typical of what an owner/GM will do, to see if the coach is the main problem . . or if it's the personnel that's the problem.

Here's what to look for though. If JJ is re-signed, let's see what the expectations will be going into next season. The core of the squad will virtually be unchanged. Will the new coach get a little leeway to implement his system, forgiving a few early season losses . .or will the fans expect the team to win right away? And what will be an acceptable regular season win total and playoff expectations, with the new coach?

[tbhawksfan]

Woodson sailed on the wings of a bunch of lottery picks. We had to endure years of rebuilding; the players came through, we have a talented squad, the coach just kept sailing. I hear though, that he wasn't able to bring out his trump card during the ORL game four though because of the first half result.

He had planned to show his full body depilatory but he lost confidense and decided against it at halftime. It's a given that you can't blame Woodson when he wasn't provided the opportunity to play his coaching trump card.

[Dsinner]

Exactamundo. I want to see if Rick Sund, well in reality Mike Gearon hold these players accountable. The ones who were walking up and down the court and going through the motions during the playoffs. Mike Woodson should still be coaching the Hawks. He is a scapegoat.

You mean the players that did this and Woody didn't pull!?!?! You guys are beyond blind. A real HC wouldn't allow this ^^^^ to happen twice. Once it's the players fault, 3 plays in a row it's the coaches. How is that not simple enough to understand?

[lethalweapon3]

Piling on again. I should only get one crack at this:

Just being playoff-centric, the last three seasons produced:

* Uneven home-road performances against the eventual champs, with losing margins in Beantown (23, 19, 25, and 34) that only got closer thanks to garbage time.

* The most unwatchable 7-game basketball series anyone can remember, with losing margins of 15, 29, and 26, against a team guided by a rookie 37-year old coach.

* A greatly unneccessary Game 7, after a team with four All/Almost-Stars is pushed to the brink by a team forced to dole out heavy minutes to Luc Mbah A Moute, Carlos Delfino, Kurt Thomas, and Ersan Ilyasova.

Never mind the white-flag performances against the Cavs and Magic.

I still doubt that this was all about the playoffs, but if forced to look at the playoff performances and results alone, it's difficult to argue that the team was just going through growing pains and learning experiences. The team apparently was not doing enough growing or learning. The repercussions for that fall with the coaching staff first, and the players later.

~lw3

[WraithSentinel]

Woodson would have been let go after his first or 2nd season anywhere else. ASG stuck by him for whatever reason this long. He took the team as far as he could. Time for a new voice. Thanks to ASG sticking by him this long. Woodson landing another HC job seem a lot more realistic now then it would have been if he got fired after his 1st or 2nd season.