JTB Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 (edited) I decided to take upon myself and compare EVERY teams big man in size with ours. Reason I am doing this cause many want to give up one of our Bigs, Smith or Horford in a trade or whatever because the fact that YOU think he's too small! So lets find out if you are right about Smith and Horord's size compared to other teams Bigs. To do this I am going to use NBA.com. The reason I am using NBA.com is because I would think that they would have the right size, stats, etc. for every player in the NBA and then it's their own website so I know they stress for it to be very accurate. With that said take a look below: Again info comes straight from NBA.com (Heights and Weights) & remember we are only comparing Bigs who actually matter and play! oh injured are included! According to NBA.com Josh Smith is listed at height 6'9, weight 240lbs/ Al Horford is listed at height 6'10,weight 245lbs TEAMS/PLAYER: (PF,C) power forwards are listed then center Boston Celtics Garnett 6'11/253lbs Perkins 6'10/280lbs New Jersey Nets YI 7'0/250lbs Lopez 7'0/265lbs New York Knicks Harrington 6'9/250lbs Lee 6'9/250lbs Philadelphia 76ers Brand 6'9/254lbs Dalembert 6'11/250lbs Toronto Raptors Bosh 6'10/230 Bargani 7'0/250lbs Chicago Bulls Gibson 6'9/225lbs Miller 7'0/261lbs Noah 6'11/232lbs Cleveland Cavaliers Jamison 6'9/235lbs Hickson 6'9/242lbs Varejo 6'11 260lbs Shaq 7'1 325lbs Detroit Pistons Villenau 6'11/232lbs Wallace 6'9/240lbs Indiana Pacers Murphy 6'11/245lbs Hibbert 7'2/278lbs Milwaukee Bucks Mbah a Moute 6'8/230lbs Thomas 6'9/230lbs Bogut 7'0/260lbs Charlotte Bobcats Diaw 6'8/235lbs Ratliff 6'10/325lbs Mohammed 6'10/250lbs Chandler 7'1/235lbs Miami Heat Beasley 6'10/235lbs Haslem 6'8/235lbs Oneal 6'11/255lbs Orlando Magic Lewis 6'10/230lbs Bass 6'8/250lbs Gortat 6'11/240lbs Howard 6'11/265lbs Washington Wizards Blatche 6'11/248lbs McGee 7'0/252lbs Dallas Mavericks Nowitzki 7'0/245lbs Dampier 6'11/265lbs Haywood 7'0/263lbs Houston Rockets Scola 6'9/245lbs Hayes 6'6/238lbs Yao 7'6/310lbs Memphis Grizzlies Randolph 6'9/260lbs M.Gasol 7'1/265lbs New Orleans Hornets West 6'9/240lbs Okafor 6'10/265lbs San Antonio Spurs Blair 6'7/265lbs Duncan 6'11/260lbs McDyess 6'9/245lbs Golden State Warriors Toliver 6'10/250lbs Turiaf 6'9/243lbs Biedrins 6'11/240lbs Los Angeles Clippers Gooden 6'10/250lbs Jodan 6'11/250lbs Kaman 7'0/265lbs Los Angeles Lakers Odom 6'10/230lbs Gasol 7'0/250lbs Bynum 7'0/285lbs Phoenix Suns Stoudamire 6'10/249lbs Lopez 7'0/255lbs Frye 6'11/245lbs Sacramento Kings Landry 6'9/248lbs Thompson 6'11/250lbs Denver Nuggets Martin 6'9/240lbs Anderson 6'10/228lbs Nene 6'11/250lbs Minnesota Timberwolves Jefferson 6'10/265lbs Love 6'10/260lbs Oklahoma City Thunder Ibaka 6'10/235lbs Green 6'9/235lbs Collison 6'10/255lbs Kristic 7'0/240lbs Thomas 6'10/260lbs Portland Trail Blazers Aldridge 6'11/240lbs Camby 6'11/235lbs Oden 7'0/285lbs Utah Jazz Millsap 6'8/250lbs Boozer 6'9/266lbs Okur 6'11/263lbs Looking at this list I went back and seperated the postions by heights and weights compared and them to smith and horford to see if they were larger or Taller than smith and horford at their positions of course. Check it out: Josh Smith: __15_____ Power forwards were Taller than Smith that were starters. ___17_______Power forwards weighed more than Smith that were starters. ____12_____ of these players were both Taller and Bigger than Smith that were starters at Power forward. At Power Forward the avg. Height looks to be___6'9______ , that's Smith height and the average Weight looks to be ___245lbs______, thats ONLY 5 pounds heavier than Smith. Remember Josh Smith Height is 6'9 and his Weight is 240lbs. If Height and Weight size was your reason for wanting to get rid of Smith thats not a very good reason cause by the looks of it Smith's Height is on avg. for power forwards today and his Weight size is only 5 pounds lighter than the average PF weight. Anyways the point is Smith is NOT undersized at PF to those who think Smith is, he actually fits right in and remember every player that is either taller, bigger, or both than Smith doesn't mean they are better than him! Al Horford: __23_____ Centers were Taller than Horford that were starters but only by a inch most of them. ____24______Centers weighed more than Horford that were starters. ___21______ of these players were both Taller and Bigger than Horford that were starters at Centers. At Centers the avg. Height looks to be___6'11______ ,which is ONLY a inch on Horford against most centers and the average Weight looks to be ___253______. Remember Al Horford Height is 6'10 and his Weight is 245lbs. For those who want to trade Horford cause of Height, you are kidding yourself! Horford is 6'10 and most of the rest of the NBA league avg. center height is 6'11. For those who wanted to trade Horford cause of Weight, you have a great debate here! I mean clearly he is undersized! I mean 24 other starting Centers weigh more than him!, that's damn near the whole NBA Lead! and then 21 starting NBA centers are Bigger and Taller than him! I mean damn man! but hey with all that said to those who want to trade Horford away cause of Size I cant debate with you on that but Im going to leave you with this to think about. Isn't it amazing that Horford damn near the smallest Center in the NBA got to the all-star game and had such a productive season. It makes you wonder......are those guys who are bigger or taller than Horford really that good? I mean we know Howard, Duncan, and Shaq are good but compared to the other average players that played center, their size didn't seem to bother horford cause it's fair to say Horford was going to be undersized against most of his opponents so in reality it's just the elite Big men that Horford hasn't played his best against and all most all of those elite big men are taller and bigger than horford but so is the average center in the lead. I wouldn't give up neither Smith or Horford at this stage unless we get a really good trade. I say we just need a very very decent center sixth man like Haywood and we will be straight!.oh and keep zaza! Edited May 22, 2010 by JTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 (edited) I decided to take upon myself and compare EVERY teams big man in size with ours. Reason I am doing this cause many want to give up one of our Bigs, Smith or Horford in a trade or whatever because the fact that YOU think he's too small! So lets find out if you are right about Smith and Horord's size compared to other teams Bigs. To do this I am going to use NBA.com. The reason I am using NBA.com is because I would think that they would have the right size, stats, etc. for every player in the NBA and then it's their own website so I know they stress for it to be very accurate. With that said take a look below: Again info comes straight from NBA.com (Heights and Weights) & remember we are only comparing Bigs who actually matter and play! oh injured are included! According to NBA.com Josh Smith is listed at height 6'9, weight 240lbs/ Al Horford is listed at height 6'10,weight 245lbs TEAMS/PLAYER: (PF,C) power forwards are listed then center Boston Celtics Garnett 6'11/253lbs Perkins 6'10/280lbs New Jersey Nets YI 7'0/250lbs Lopez 7'0/265lbs New York Knicks Harrington 6'9/250lbs Lee 6'9/250lbs Philadelphia 76ers Brand 6'9/254lbs Dalembert 6'11/250lbs Toronto Raptors Bosh 6'10/230 Bargani 7'0/250lbs Chicago Bulls Gibson 6'9/225lbs Miller 7'0/261lbs Noah 6'11/232lbs Cleveland Cavaliers Jamison 6'9/235lbs Hickson 6'9/242lbs Varejo 6'11 260lbs Shaq 7'1 325lbs Detroit Pistons Villenau 6'11/232lbs Wallace 6'9/240lbs Indiana Pacers Murphy 6'11/245lbs Hibbert 7'2/278lbs Milwaukee Bucks Mbah a Moute 6'8/230lbs Thomas 6'9/230lbs Bogut 7'0/260lbs Charlotte Bobcats Diaw 6'8/235lbs Ratliff 6'10/325lbs Mohammed 6'10/250lbs Chandler 7'1/235lbs Miami Heat Beasley 6'10/235lbs Haslem 6'8/235lbs Oneal 6'11/255lbs Orlando Magic Lewis 6'10/230lbs Bass 6'8/250lbs Gortat 6'11/240lbs Howard 6'11/265lbs Washington Wizards Blatche 6'11/248lbs McGee 7'0/252lbs Dallas Mavericks Nowitzki 7'0/245lbs Dampier 6'11/265lbs Haywood 7'0/263lbs Houston Rockets Scola 6'9/245lbs Hayes 6'6/238lbs Yao 7'6/310lbs Memphis Grizzlies Randolph 6'9/260lbs M.Gasol 7'1/265lbs New Orleans Hornets West 6'9/240lbs Okafor 6'10/265lbs San Antonio Spurs Blair 6'7/265lbs Duncan 6'11/260lbs McDyess 6'9/245lbs Golden State Warriors Toliver 6'10/250lbs Turiaf 6'9/243lbs Biedrins 6'11/240lbs Los Angeles Clippers Gooden 6'10/250lbs Jodan 6'11/250lbs Kaman 7'0/265lbs Los Angeles Lakers Odom 6'10/230lbs Gasol 7'0/250lbs Bynum 7'0/285lbs Phoenix Suns Stoudamire 6'10/249lbs Lopez 7'0/255lbs Frye 6'11/245lbs Sacramento Kings Landry 6'9/248lbs Thompson 6'11/250lbs Denver Nuggets Martin 6'9/240lbs Anderson 6'10/228lbs Nene 6'11/250lbs Minnesota Timberwolves Jefferson 6'10/265lbs Love 6'10/260lbs Oklahoma City Thunder Ibaka 6'10/235lbs Green 6'9/235lbs Collison 6'10/255lbs Kristic 7'0/240lbs Thomas 6'10/260lbs Portland Trail Blazers Aldridge 6'11/240lbs Camby 6'11/235lbs Oden 7'0/285lbs Utah Jazz Millsap 6'8/250lbs Boozer 6'9/266lbs Okur 6'11/263lbs Looking at this list I went back and seperated the postions by heights and weights compared and them to smith and horford to see if they were larger or Taller than smith and horford at their positions of course. Check it out: Josh Smith: __15_____ Power forwards were Taller than Smith that were starters. ___17_______Power forwards weighed more than Smith that were starters. ____12_____ of these players were both Taller and Bigger than Smith that were starters at Power forward. At Power Forward the avg. Height looks to be___6'9______ , that's Smith height and the average Weight looks to be ___245lbs______, thats ONLY 5 pounds heavier than Smith. Remember Josh Smith Height is 6'9 and his Weight is 240lbs. If Height and Weight size was your reason for wanting to get rid of Smith thats not a very good reason cause by the looks of it Smith's Height is on avg. for power forwards today and his Weight size is only 5 pounds lighter than the average PF weight. Anyways the point is Smith is NOT undersized at PF to those who think Smith is, he actually fits right in and remember every player that is either taller, bigger, or both than Smith doesn't mean they are better than him! Al Horford: __23_____ Centers were Taller than Horford that were starters but only by a inch most of them. ____24______Centers weighed more than Horford that were starters. ___21______ of these players were both Taller and Bigger than Horford that were starters at Centers. At Centers the avg. Height looks to be___6'11______ ,which is ONLY a inch on Horford against most centers and the average Weight looks to be ___253______. Remember Al Horford Height is 6'10 and his Weight is 245lbs. For those who want to trade Horford cause of Height, you are kidding yourself! Horford is 6'10 and most of the rest of the NBA league avg. center height is 6'11. For those who wanted to trade Horford cause of Weight, you have a great debate here! I mean clearly he is undersized! I mean 24 other starting Centers weigh more than him!, that's damn near the whole NBA Lead! and then 21 starting NBA centers are Bigger and Taller than him! I mean damn man! but hey with all that said to those who want to trade Horford away cause of Size I cant debate with you on that but Im going to leave you with this to think about. Isn't it amazing that Horford damn near the smallest Center in the NBA got to the all-star game and had such a productive season. It makes you wonder......are those guys who are bigger or taller than Horford really that good? I mean we know Howard, Duncan, and Shaq are good but compared to the other average players that played center, their size didn't seem to bother horford cause it's fair to say Horford was going to be undersized against most of his opponents so in reality it's just the elite Big men that Horford hasn't played his best against and all most all of those elite big men are taller and bigger than horford but so is the average center in the lead. I wouldn't give up neither Smith or Horford at this stage unless we get a really good trade. I say we just need a very very decent center sixth man like Haywood and we will be straight!.oh and keep zaza! Height and Weight aren't everything. It's also about standing reach, body proportion, etc. Where we have an advantage is our athletic ability is the highest for a front court in the league. The disadvantage is B. Lopez, Howard, Shaq, and Bynum. We can't contain them. I too believe we should keep them unless we find something we can't pass on. Talent wise, Horford is better than all centers other than Howard(Not the position but in terms of overall ability). At PF, he's better than everyone except for Dirk and Gasol. Yes, I am saying he's better than Bosh and Amare. Edited May 22, 2010 by nbasuperstar40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Jody23 Posted May 22, 2010 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 (edited) Horford isn't 6'10. I do agree that he would be one of the best power forwards easily in this league. Also, when he played against Bosh this year, Bosh wasn't strong enough to keep Al from getting right to the front of the rim. I don't think many 4s in the league can keep him from doing that. That's what I like about Al at the 4, not only can he face up, but he can back guys down for high percentage shots consistently (bully ball if you want to call it that). Edited May 22, 2010 by Jody23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunt91 Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Horford isn't 6'10. I do agree that he would be one of the best power forwards easily in this league. Also, when he played against Bosh this year, Bosh wasn't strong enough to keep Al from getting right to the front of the rim. I don't think many 4s in the league can keep him from doing that. That's what I like about Al at the 4, not only can he face up, but he can back guys down for high percentage shots consistently (bully ball if you want to call it that). The problem with Smoove at the 4 is he isn't "physical" enough to play defense at that position. I kind of question his upperbody strength to some extent as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsuteke Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 I appreciate you taking the time to put together these stats but I believe you need to make the distinction between "average" and "elite.". The elite teams in the league have a clear size advantage over the hawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrReality Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Think the size difference can better be to our advantage on offense where their quickness can be used but on defense they tend to over power us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Think the size difference can better be to our advantage on offense where their quickness can be used but on defense they tend to over power us. I think are skill is our biggest strength. Smith is a skilled offensive player, and Horford is a very skilled offensive player. No team has better talent combination in the front court than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted May 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 I appreciate you taking the time to put together these stats but I believe you need to make the distinction between "average" and "elite.". The elite teams in the league have a clear size advantage over the hawks. I agree but if you look at it every team's center is bigger than horford yet horford dominates alot of these guys so really i dont want to blame it on size but the talent of the centers on the elite teams are the problem. cause im confused that horford would make a comment about us needing another center if he's talking size cause like i said horford is smaller than most centers in weight and shorter or at the same height of many centers but he doesn't get destroyed by all these centers! Look at it this way zaza is 6'11/275lbs according to nba.com so he's bigger than howard as far as weight goes but yet we all know howard would destroy him, so besides size we also just need a flat out talented center, size wont get it! we need a skilled player with atleast the average size at center who's willing to come off our bench! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachx Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 I wouldn't give up neither Smith or Horford at this stage unless we get a really good trade. I say we just need a very very decent center sixth man like Haywood and we will be straight!.oh and keep zaza! I think 99% of the board is in agreement with that. Only pronlem is 12 team will be offering Heywood the MLE and at least 1 of the 6 teams under the salary cap will offer him more then the MLE. Point being.........the Hawks have an very slim chance at Heywood. No need holding your breat hfor him. Heywood is 10 / 10 / 2 center. Those ghuys don't grow on trees. Saying "we just need" a guy like him makes it sound like that is an easy fix but its not. The only reasons people consider trading Smith has nothing to do with his physical attributes. Its his mental attributes, or lack there of, that drive us all nuts ! I personaly can't stand to watch him act like a 12 year old spoiled brat crying to referees and refusing to run the court to play defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted May 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 Think the size difference can better be to our advantage on offense where their quickness can be used but on defense they tend to over power us. I agree with this as well but it shouldnt be alot of pf's over powering smith cause he's damn near the same size of most of them and then some of the better pf's arent even bigger than smith! like jamison,d.west,rashard lewis they are about the same size of smith! now horford on the other hand yeah many will over power him at center but with the stats horford puts up it seems like it not even obvious until he plays a elite center like howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted May 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 I think 99% of the board is in agreement with that. Only pronlem is 12 team will be offering Heywood the MLE and at least 1 of the 6 teams under the salary cap will offer him more then the MLE. Point being.........the Hawks have an very slim chance at Heywood. No need holding your breat hfor him. Heywood is 10 / 10 / 2 center. Those ghuys don't grow on trees. Saying "we just need" a guy like him makes it sound like that is an easy fix but its not. The only reasons people consider trading Smith has nothing to do with his physical attributes. Its his mental attributes, or lack there of, that drive us all nuts ! I personaly can't stand to watch him act like a 12 year old spoiled brat crying to referees and refusing to run the court to play defense. that will change with a good coach hopefully. i think avery can change this team alot. an i pretty much figured heywood would be hard for us to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 You say "on average looks to be" so in other words you are guessing at what the average is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 JTB . . . exactly. Just adding a big man to the mix isn't enough to trade either Horford or Smith. It has to be a guy with talent, if he's going to be a starter. If not, then you keep both Horford and Smith, and see if you can find a guy who can play at least 20 minutes a night. And if it helps balance out the team, then start him, but let the Smith - Horford combo finish games. Teams like San Antonio ( Nesterovic ), Minnesota ( Ervin "not Magic" Johnson ), and even the current LA Lakers ( Bynum ) all used big centers that they initially started in games, only to bring a more talented PF off the bench to play alongisde their other talented power forward. But the size issue IS an issue. A major issue. Like gsuteke said, the elite teams all have size and bulk on their frontlines. And most of those guys are better than your average "stiff" center. And the problem with our frontline is that they have to play tough every game. Horford plays tough, but is still overmatched at center vs the better centers in the league. Smoove plays tough when he wants, but he doesn't like to mix it up at times. For the Horford - Smoove combo to reach maximum potential, they have to play bigger and tougher. If they don't, then they'll only be a good duo instead of a great one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted May 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 You say "on average looks to be" so in other words you are guessing at what the average is? yeah that was my averages when i was looking through all the players, i could be wrong but im very sure that im close to accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosgrim Posted May 22, 2010 Report Share Posted May 22, 2010 yeah that was my averages when i was looking through all the players, i could be wrong but im very sure that im close to accurate. I did a similar analysis to this at the beginning of the season for the Hawks main competition going into the season, but I did it looking across all starters' heights/weights and then for all F-Cs. Data was taken from NBA.com (if I remember correctly): Atlanta 1. Avg. Starters height = 78.6" 2. Avg. Starters weight= 224 3. F-C Avg. height = 82" 4. F-C Avg. weight = 250 Miami 1. = 77.6" 2. = 220.6 3. = 78.9" 4. = 241.1 Indy 1. = 77.7" 2. = 221.8 3. = 78.6" 4. = 244.8 DC 1.= 78.6" 2.= 217 3.= 81.3" 4.= 238.5 Philly 1.= 78.2" 2.= 220.4 3.= 80" 4.= 242.3 Boston 1.=78.4 2.=220.6 3.=81.8 4.=248.4 Looks like I didn't bother with Cleveland because they were so much bigger and better. I think this was in response to a post that said Atlanta had the smallest starters in the NBA, or in the East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 I did a similar analysis to this at the beginning of the season for the Hawks main competition going into the season, but I did it looking across all starters' heights/weights and then for all F-Cs. Data was taken from NBA.com (if I remember correctly): Atlanta 1. Avg. Starters height = 78.6" 2. Avg. Starters weight= 224 3. F-C Avg. height = 82" 4. F-C Avg. weight = 250 Miami 1. = 77.6" 2. = 220.6 3. = 78.9" 4. = 241.1 Indy 1. = 77.7" 2. = 221.8 3. = 78.6" 4. = 244.8 DC 1.= 78.6" 2.= 217 3.= 81.3" 4.= 238.5 Philly 1.= 78.2" 2.= 220.4 3.= 80" 4.= 242.3 Boston 1.=78.4 2.=220.6 3.=81.8 4.=248.4 Looks like I didn't bother with Cleveland because they were so much bigger and better. I think this was in response to a post that said Atlanta had the smallest starters in the NBA, or in the East. Marivn and JJ are big for their position. I think when ppl say we are small, they are talking about the front court. When ppl say the back court is small, they say that team has small guards like GS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosgrim Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 Marivn and JJ are big for their position. I think when ppl say we are small, they are talking about the front court. When ppl say the back court is small, they say that team has small guards like GS. Agree. JJ and Marvin make up the difference in average sizes for the team. The reality is that the Hawks a somewhat height challenged but do OK in weight. I think the analysis in the original post does show that Horford is probably too light to survive at center. In all the Hawks just need a guy to be the guy on this team. This doesn't just mean being the main scorer, but also the guy that everyone on the team respects and plays hard for. Coaches can make you play hard for a while, but it is going to be your teammates that ultimately make the difference. Jordan, Bird, Magic, and now Kobe and Wade seem to be those types of guys. JJ isn't that sort of guy for the Hawks. I don't think Horford has the talent to be that sort of guy. Josh could be if he gets rid of sour beer face Josh and plays mature, fundamental basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted May 23, 2010 Report Share Posted May 23, 2010 I appreciate you taking the time to put together these stats but I believe you need to make the distinction between "average" and "elite.". The elite teams in the league have a clear size advantage over the hawks. Bingo! If all we want to be is average then mission accomplished! We have to excel at a minimum of three positions to even get close to elite. So far we only excel at SG. Horf appears to be on the verge of getting there.......but Josh just kills us with his all or nothing effort. Marvin kills us because he disappeared. PG kills us because we did not have one in play this season. Craw helps but he is truly a tweener and scorer only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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