What's Joe's Motivation for Sign-and-Trade?

[lethalweapon3]

Does Sign-and-Trade allow for Joe to have a sixth year in his contract with another team? Outside of that, I can't think of a practical reason, after his last Sign-and-Trade odyssey provoked bitterness and turmoil among two franchises, for Joe to take that route, this time as an unrestricted free agent. I also doubt he'd want to strengthen the Hawks roster in any way if he leans toward going to an Eastern Conference contender, unless the Hawks were willing to relieve the other team of some garbage contracts.

~lw3

[MaceCase]

6th year and or higher pay raises really, nothing else. The perfect synthesis of their team's needs, the player's needs, and our team's needs. Of course all that get's eliminated if team X says we will only sign you outright for 5 years, then Joe and us are SOL if his intentions are to leave and get those benefits. Then again every free agent knows this as the reality of the market so they can't get all that mad at not having the extra benefits.

Too many are arguing that the Hawks are in the driver's seat because Joe is older than the other FAs and will be above all else looking for that 6th year, to them I say look no further than Baron and Elton. Both were just as old if not older than Joe is now and are perfectly happy with their 5 year deals with no extended pay raises.

[gsuteke]

10% more money per bird rights. If he leaves its because he wanted to leave or they weren't willing to pay X dollar amount. Like Lebron if Joe wants to leave it will be for less money if the Hawks refuse to trade him.

[99PROBL3MS]

If the Hawks prove they want to improve the team, I could certainly see him coming back. If they bring the team back as is, I would leab towards him leaving.

[Diesel]

Does Sign-and-Trade allow for Joe to have a sixth year in his contract with another team? Outside of that, I can't think of a practical reason, after his last Sign-and-Trade odyssey provoked bitterness and turmoil among two franchises, for Joe to take that route, this time as an unrestricted free agent. I also doubt he'd want to strengthen the Hawks roster in any way if he leans toward going to an Eastern Conference contender, unless the Hawks were willing to relieve the other team of some garbage contracts.

~lw3

Joe has big motivation to do a SNT.

He needs that six year. He is just about 30. This is his last big contract. Lebron can take a 3 year deal and still get another. Not Joe. Joe is almost 30, in 5 years, he'll be almost 35. Nobody is paying SGs big money at almost 35. Therefore, Joe's money motivation is get a SNT so that he can have a 6th year. Not to mention the raises. We're talking 10s of Millions of dollars.

[DrReality]

Seems to me it comes down to JJ's aspirations of winning a title vs getting the money. Hard one to figure but that has to be on his mind but I'd say that also will fuel his intention to get a S and T so he can get the money and have a chance at the title.

[D.R.P.]

If Joe wants a s-n-t to the Cavs; then it ain't happening. The Cavs have no player of interest for the Hawks. No thanks too; Mo Dodo, Delonte Crazy, and JJ Hickson.

[thecampster]

Does Sign-and-Trade allow for Joe to have a sixth year in his contract with another team? Outside of that, I can't think of a practical reason, after his last Sign-and-Trade odyssey provoked bitterness and turmoil among two franchises, for Joe to take that route, this time as an unrestricted free agent. I also doubt he'd want to strengthen the Hawks roster in any way if he leans toward going to an Eastern Conference contender, unless the Hawks were willing to relieve the other team of some garbage contracts.

~lw3

There are 2 motivations to consider. Joe's motivation in a sign and trade and the other team's. To make this easy to grasp, let's pretend players are ranked 1-10 and Joe Johnson is a 9 at his position.

The team he is going to has a player that would qualify as a 7 but is making a Crawfordesk 10 million a year. Neither Joe Johnson, nor that player would want that player disgruntled playing behind him.

Pretend Joe goes to a team that will have 10 million in cap space left when he signs and has a starting small forward/shooting guard that would qualify as a 7 and makes 9 million a season and is playing the small forward for that team. By using the sign and trade rules to move that player to us, they now have 19 million to spend on Lebron to take the small forward slot for that team. Without the sign and trade, they wouldn't have the money to bring in a player the team and Joe would like to play with.

The team he is going to has enough room for 2 marquee free agents (say Joe and Bosh) plus about 2 million, by using the sign and trade rules they could offload a contract or two to us for bench players that won't get enough play and create enough room to get a good role player.

Or, the team he's going to covets another one of our talents. By using the sign and trade rules, we could accept something more back than trading that one player would net (say bringing back a 12 million contract for Marvin's 7.5 mil or a 10 million for Bibby's 5.6 million). This give Joe and that team the ability to mold their roster into the type of team they are looking for.

The bottom line is an NBA team is 9 players and 3-6 practice players that rarely see the floor. Sometimes, when building a team you get spare parts that are too expensive for what they do for you to be in that 3-6 group. Both Joe and the signing team know this. What may not be needed in their rotation, would be needed in ours and we would value more. It's a win, win situation, even for Joe. Joe wants to win to validate himself. The only way to do that is to surround himself with the best 8 other guys possible. The best way to do that is help his new team offload unneeded players much the same way we did when Josh Smith improved and Al Harrington became a luxury and not a necessity.

[lethalweapon3]

Thanks campster for that assessment. Looking at it from that angle (SG or SF "luxury players", among teams sufficiently under the cap) instead of the "garbage contract" scenario, I found a handful of players that might qualify:

* Luol Deng (Bulls, $11.35 million) and Andres Nocioni (Kings, $6.85 million) -- Somehow, I imagine that these two players would not be disgruntled, and would prefer to play behind Joe and earn Crawford-esque money competing for Crawford-esque awards. Deng much moreso than Nocioni, who just desperately wants out of Sactown and could be paired with another contract (Beno Udrih or Francisco Garcia) to make the scenario work.

* Gil Arenas (Wizards, $17.73 million) - Gil won't get stuck behind Wall and Joe (unless they slide Joe to SF ahead of Al Thornton). I'm not a big Gil fan, but he'd have as good a shot at career redemption here as he would anywhere else. Josh Howard (Wizards, $11.84 million) is a "team-option" contract that I don't think the Wizards would pick up unless it could be used for the multi-player Sign-and-Trade scenario (i.e., involving Marvin/Bibby).

~lw3

[thecampster]

Thanks campster for that assessment. Looking at it from that angle (SG or SF "luxury players", among teams sufficiently under the cap) instead of the "garbage contract" scenario, I found a handful of players that might qualify:

* Luol Deng (Bulls, $11.35 million) and Andres Nocioni (Kings, $6.85 million) -- Somehow, I imagine that these two players would not be disgruntled, and would prefer to play behind Joe and earn Crawford-esque money competing for Crawford-esque awards. Deng much moreso than Nocioni, who just desperately wants out of Sactown and could be paired with another contract (Beno Udrih or Francisco Garcia) to make the scenario work.

* Gil Arenas (Wizards, $17.73 million) - Gil won't get stuck behind Wall and Joe (unless they slide Joe to SF ahead of Al Thornton). I'm not a big Gil fan, but he'd have as good a shot at career redemption here as he would anywhere else. Josh Howard (Wizards, $11.84 million) is a "team-option" contract that I don't think the Wizards would pick up unless it could be used for the multi-player Sign-and-Trade scenario (i.e., involving Marvin/Bibby).

~lw3

The only issue you might have here is that the places you mention, also have to be places Joe wants to go. Joe is a southern boy. My guess is he wants to play close to home. That leaves the area from Texas to the Carolinas.

[coachx]

Joe has big motivation to do a SNT.

He needs that six year. He is just about 30. This is his last big contract. Lebron can take a 3 year deal and still get another. Not Joe. Joe is almost 30, in 5 years, he'll be almost 35. Nobody is paying SGs big money at almost 35. Therefore, Joe's money motivation is get a SNT so that he can have a 6th year. Not to mention the raises. We're talking 10s of Millions of dollars.

Just for accuracy's sake it should be pointed out that JJ is 28 and is about to turn 29 on June 26.

In 5 years Joe will not be "almost 35." In 5 years Joe will be finishing up a season at 33 years old. It will be tough getting a good contract when he turns 34 right after a 5 year contract would end. Of course we all get your point that JJ would prefer a 6th year where he makes big money in year 6 of a new deal at 34 years of age.

Edited June 7, 2010 by coachx