Josh Smith playing the 3/SF may not be a concern!, with LD as Coach now!

[Diesel]

In this thread, there's a lot of assumptions being made.

First off, this is no longer Woody's teams. It seems to me, that everybody is Judging Smoove based on Woody's gameplan. Sure Smoove may have had some bad moments in Woody's switching defense. We ran that switch most of the time. Teams figured out how to dail up their matchups. Seeing Smoove matchuped with Jameer Nelson or Brandon Jennings is an automatic L. Those guys just blew past him because they are fast, not because of them playing Sf. Moreover, half of our defense seemed loss in the switching defense. I distinctly remember, late in the season, guys having to be prompted as to where to go.

Offensively, nobody knows LD's plan. He has said motion. He has mentioned Guard ran. He has also said that he wants Smoove scoring going to the rim. That to me says that there will be no three pointers for smoove but it also suggests that Smoove could be slashing. Offensively, that would work much better than trying to post Smoove up. Smoove has develop some post up moves, but doesn't (and has never) exhibited the toughness of a PF.

Then there are things that this group haven't considered.

Moving Smoove to Sf, Moves Horf to Pf.

Like it or not, Horf said that he wants to play PF. In an offseason when we seemingly will lose Joe and will build around Horf and Smoove, the first act that you want to make is to tell Horf, "I'm sorry, but you will have to stay at C.". If we decide to keep Smoove at PF, we might as well trade Horf.

LD took over knowing the terroritory. IF he decides to move Smoove to Sf, then I'm sure that he's aware of Smoove's ability at Sf. Offensively, I think Smoove to Sf will happen seemlessly. Defensively, who knows. I don't pretend to know. I don't think anybody here knows either. All we have ever seen of Smoove we have seen in Woody's defense. Embrace that this is a new time for the Hawks. We have a new coach and we will have a new look. If that look means Smoove to Sf, just wait and see instead of claiming it to be dead on arrival with the minimum amount of proof we have.

[Diesel]

One more thing.

I wasn't impress with Smoove's defense at Pf.

Bigger PFs pushed him (like Lewis and Thomas).

Faster PFs used him (like Illyasova).

[AHF]

Yes Josh is better at the basket, but there have been a number of 3's in the league who made their living in the paint.. I never once heard anyone complain about James Worthy not being able to knock down 3-pointers. He could run and slash with the best of them, and play great help defense. Sound familiar?

Worthy did not have the same struggles guarding perimeter players that Josh has and was never the shotblocker that Josh is (and had a much better jump shot even with limited range). If you take Josh and make him like the neutered Andrei Kirilenko we saw a few years ago and you are doing for a non-impact center, you can expect people not to be excited. That said and to your James Worthy comparison, you bring in a 6 time MVP like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to man the middle and no one will complain about moving Josh Smith to the 3.

[Johnnybravo4]

In this thread, there's a lot of assumptions being made.

First off, this is no longer Woody's teams. It seems to me, that everybody is Judging Smoove based on Woody's gameplan. Sure Smoove may have had some bad moments in Woody's switching defense. We ran that switch most of the time. Teams figured out how to dail up their matchups. Seeing Smoove matchuped with Jameer Nelson or Brandon Jennings is an automatic L. Those guys just blew past him because they are fast, not because of them playing Sf. Moreover, half of our defense seemed loss in the switching defense. I distinctly remember, late in the season, guys having to be prompted as to where to go.

Offensively, nobody knows LD's plan. He has said motion. He has mentioned Guard ran. He has also said that he wants Smoove scoring going to the rim. That to me says that there will be no three pointers for smoove but it also suggests that Smoove could be slashing. Offensively, that would work much better than trying to post Smoove up. Smoove has develop some post up moves, but doesn't (and has never) exhibited the toughness of a PF.

Then there are things that this group haven't considered.

Moving Smoove to Sf, Moves Horf to Pf.

Like it or not, Horf said that he wants to play PF. In an offseason when we seemingly will lose Joe and will build around Horf and Smoove, the first act that you want to make is to tell Horf, "I'm sorry, but you will have to stay at C.". If we decide to keep Smoove at PF, we might as well trade Horf.

LD took over knowing the terroritory. IF he decides to move Smoove to Sf, then I'm sure that he's aware of Smoove's ability at Sf. Offensively, I think Smoove to Sf will happen seemlessly. Defensively, who knows. I don't pretend to know. I don't think anybody here knows either. All we have ever seen of Smoove we have seen in Woody's defense. Embrace that this is a new time for the Hawks. We have a new coach and we will have a new look. If that look means Smoove to Sf, just wait and see instead of claiming it to be dead on arrival with the minimum amount of proof we have.

Diesel raises a fundamental question. If you concede that Smoove is better at PF and Horf is better at PF then common sense says that you need to maximize your talents and move one in order to get a better fit at a position of need....i.e. PG or C. We always assume that our only trade piece is smoove but I would say that Horf is just as or more valuable as a trade commodity. He can play 2 positions and has a high basketball I.Q. He probably will come cheaper long term for a team than Smoove would. I think NO would welcome a trade for Paul that would include Horf, Marvin and Bibby. It would allow NO to stay competitive and save money. In terms of our team I'd rather see a CP3/Smoove combo than a CP3/Horf combo. You thought that chandler and Cp3 were exciting just think if he was throwing up Alley oops tho Smoove?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Diesel raises a fundamental question. If you concede that Smoove is better at PF and Horf is better at PF then common sense says that you need to maximize your talents and move one in order to get a better fit at a position of need....i.e. PG or C. We always assume that our only trade piece is smoove but I would say that Horf is just as or more valuable as a trade commodity. He can play 2 positions and has a high basketball I.Q. He probably will come cheaper long term for a team than Smoove would. I think NO would welcome a trade for Paul that would include Horf, Marvin and Bibby. It would allow NO to stay competitive and save money. In terms of our team I'd rather see a CP3/Smoove combo than a CP3/Horf combo. You thought that chandler and Cp3 were exciting just think if he was throwing up Alley oops tho Smoove?

The problem is that Horford is still on his rookie contract. So you would have to trade another player along with Horford ( i.e. - Crawford ) . . instead of a Smoove deal, when you may also have to trade another player, but it could be a Mo Evans, to make a deal work. People keep wanting to trade Marvin and Bibby or even Zaza, but those guys aren't going to become attractive/tradeable contracts until next summer.

I know some people want "excitement", but I'd rather have "wins". So the question to me is . . . which duo would WIN more? CP3 + Smoove . . . or CP3 + Horford?

[BusBoyIsBack]

Diesel raises a fundamental question. If you concede that Smoove is better at PF and Horf is better at PF then common sense says that you need to maximize your talents and move one in order to get a better fit at a position of need....i.e. PG or C. We always assume that our only trade piece is smoove but I would say that Horf is just as or more valuable as a trade commodity. He can play 2 positions and has a high basketball I.Q. He probably will come cheaper long term for a team than Smoove would. I think NO would welcome a trade for Paul that would include Horf, Marvin and Bibby. It would allow NO to stay competitive and save money. In terms of our team I'd rather see a CP3/Smoove combo than a CP3/Horf combo. You thought that chandler and Cp3 were exciting just think if he was throwing up Alley oops tho Smoove?

Here are the options. Either Smoove or Horford come off the bench if we get a legit 5 or we keep them together.

Unless we bring in a center who gives us a better matchup than Horford at the 4 and Smoove at the 5, it doesn't make sense to move them.

Horford is an undersized Center but in the weakest era ever at the center position he's a top 5 Center. And Smoove may not be the greatest lock down on the ball defender at the 4 but he's at least better at that position than he would be trying to defend SFs off the dribble not to mention that again takes him away from contesting and altering shots in the paint as well as rebounding

People are misdiagnosing the problems with this team. It's not the 4/5 spot that's holding us back. We need Teague to develop at the 1. We need him to stop the dribble penetration and be able to get penetration of his own

Edited June 24, 2010 by BusBoyIsBack

[benhillboy]

True, Teague is integral to our progression, but I just don't see him taking great strides. His jumper and finishing ability in traffic are just too horrendous, especially with his ability to penetrate at will. Plus on defense, there's only 2 possibilities: steal or foul, the latter coming much more frequently. Also, the fact that Woody (remember, the guy who always improved over his last season) never listened to Drew just doesn't sit well with me. If I were a fool I might believe that he can be a "new voice."

[Jody23]

But that's only because Maggette was playing the 4 when he came into that game and had to be matched up against Smith. And Maggette had 18 points and 7 rebounds . .in 22 minutes. So isn't that an indictment on Smith's abilities to defend a 3?

And Josh had 29 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists. To me it's an indication that Josh can abuse smaller players. It doesn't matter that Maggette was playing the four. He's still a perimeter player. When matched up against a 3, everyone fears Josh will want to play on the perimeter and shoot jumpers. Instead, he relentlessly attacked the basket and put up some of his best numbers for the season. Why did he not settle for jumpers against Maggette? Because, he knew it was easy to post him up and attack the basket. Imagine what he could do if given that kind of physical advantage every night.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Jody23

[AHF]

And Josh had 29 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists. To me it's an indication that Josh can abuse smaller players. It doesn't matter that Maggette was playing the four. He's still a perimeter player. When matched up against a 3, everyone fears Josh will want to play on the perimeter and shoot jumpers. Instead, he relentlessly attacked the basket and put up some of his best numbers for the season. Why did he not settle for jumpers against Maggette? Because, he knew it was easy to post him up and attack the basket. Imagine what he could do if given that kind of physical advantage every night.

He was playing power forward that game against an undersized opponent. That is great, but it is different from playing on the perimeter. If we picked up this mystery bruiser center and the center and Horford are posting up, do you think spends more time in the paint than in the past?

If we are going to get someone like Mehmet Okur and let them shoot jumpers at the center spot, then my worries about Josh on the perimeter on offense go away and we are just left with concerns about his ability to stay with quicker perimeter players defensively.

For those who like this idea, it may be helpful to identify the mystery center because that shapes everything else offensively and serves as a bit of a reality check on fantasies of significantly improving on last year's All-Star Center, Al Horford.

[exodus]

Smoove at the 3 was never a concern for me. Rodman couldn't shoot much when the Pistons won the championship.

Rodman didn't take jumpers. Smith does. Rodman had the quickness to guard 3s. Smith doesn't. Dumb comparison.

[exodus]

well I cant argue with you being that I have or for some reason dont remember smith even attempting to even play the 3

You have a bad memory. Smith didn't start at the 4 when Harrington was here. he started at the 3 and couldn't stay in front of 3s to at all.