Atlanta Spirit Group prove they cannot afford team, sell best pick in 2nd round

[AHF]

Apparently we got close to $3 million in return for Pleiss, not bad if you ask me for a project center that won't see the NBA for a while

Trust me. We won't regret passing up on getting our chance of any player in the 2nd round for a price less than a veteran minimum contract. We'll look back on dealing the most value non-guaranteed pick i the draft with fondness.

[Yeti]

You are completely right. They need to sell the team. I can't support an organization that doesn't even TRY to win. Just watch Joe and others bail now - they aren't going to get a championship team here. The owners just want the TV money and don't give a cr@p about the fans.

[Sothron]

Apparently we got close to $3 million in return for Pleiss, not bad if you ask me for a project center that won't see the NBA for a while

So like I said in the draft thread weeks back the Hawks sold a pick to get the money back to pay Drew's contract. Amazing. These ASG turkeys just can not fail in failing.

[bird_dirt]

Apparently we got close to $3 million in return for Pleiss, not bad if you ask me for a project center that won't see the NBA for a while

that should cover their dry cleaning for the season

[sturt]

I really dunno, guys. $3 mil? Again, no debate, these guys appear to be strapped for cash, but that sounds like money that makes it more feasible to re-sign Joe.

[Joker]

I really dunno, guys. $3 mil? Again, no debate, these guys appear to be strapped for cash, but that sounds like money that makes it more feasible to re-sign Joe.

Joe not coming back, it's a nice thought but even the players know Joe is out and that's old news. The problem is Atlanta is setting themselves up for BS. They need to do whatever it takes to land CP3 or it's 25-35 win per season for us. Crawford canceled his workout with us because he knew the news. This franchise is s***. They haven't even make it out of the 2nd round since St. Louis.

Edited June 25, 2010 by nbasuperstar40

[AHF]

I really dunno, guys. $3 mil? Again, no debate, these guys appear to be strapped for cash, but that sounds like money that makes it more feasible to re-sign Joe.

Dejuan Blair > Joe Smith + $2M

[Johnnybravo4]

Honestly if that 3mil is the difference on whether we can sign Joe or not then we are truly fukked as a franchise.

[sturt]

Dejuan Blair > Joe Smith + $2M

I call cherry picking.

Very few Blairs in any given year's 2nd round. Someone offers you (a) a chance to pick this year's Blair, and (b) a sure $3 million?

Really?

You can rationally say you'd rather have the chance?

No. You just can't.

But I guess draft night is just an emotional night, and even the normally-level-headed AHF, it appears, has been smitten by a touch of romanticization.

[Johnnybravo4]

I call cherry picking.

Very few Blairs in any given year's 2nd round. Someone offers you (a) a chance to pick this year's Blair, and (b) a sure $3 million?

Really?

You can rationally say you'd rather have the chance?

No. You just can't.

But I guess draft night is just an emotional night, and even the normally-level-headed AHF, it appears, has been smitten by a touch of romanticization.

Don't forget Big Baby and Gilbert Arenas. If you are a GM and you make millions of bucks per year, then you should be able to make these picks. I can get any lawyer or accountant to be a transactional GM.

[Admin]

I call cherry picking.

Very few Blairs in any given year's 2nd round. Someone offers you (a) a chance to pick this year's Blair, and (b) a sure $3 million?

Really?

You can rationally say you'd rather have the chance?

No. You just can't.

But I guess draft night is just an emotional night, and even the normally-level-headed AHF, it appears, has been smitten by a touch of romanticization.

Let me ask you this Sturt. You've got a car that you're looking to trade in at the dealership. The dealership has given x amount of money for the same car to other people who have traded one in but they've also gotten a nice rebate on a new car or some other type of incentive. Do you just take the money and not ask for the rebate on the new car? Would you feel satisfied with that? Or would you look back on that moment down the line as you're making payments on the car and think "damn I wish I had gotten a rebate on this car so that my payments would be lower"?

[AHF]

I call cherry picking.

Very few Blairs in any given year's 2nd round. Someone offers you (a) a chance to pick this year's Blair, and (b) a sure $3 million?

Really?

You can rationally say you'd rather have the chance?

No. You just can't.

But I guess draft night is just an emotional night, and even the normally-level-headed AHF, it appears, has been smitten by a touch of romanticization.

Why don't we just sell our #27 pick then? That is a low % pick.

Hell, half of the #2 picks in the draft for the past decade have severely underachieved. Thabeet, Beasley, Darko, Jay Williams, Chandler, etc. Why not just sell that off, too?

The #31 pick is a GOOD chance at a young player with the added advantage of not being a mandated guaranteed contract.

Through pick 35 of the second round over the last ten years we have seen:

Marko Jaric

Trenton Hassell

Gilbert Arenas

Carlos Boozer

Dan Gadzuric

Jason Kapono

Luke Walton

Andresen Varajao

Brandon Bass

CJ Miles

Carl Landry

Big Baby

Mario Chalmers

DeAndre Jordan

That doesn't include guys like Michael Redd, Monta Ellis, Andray Blatche, and many other success stories. You notice that picking this early in the second round, however, is not such a long-shot hypothetical. There are valuable players around this spot in the draft more years than not - and there are ALWAYS valuable players available. We just either don't think we can ID those players or are unwilling to pay for them.

This is a very bad sign for how this team plans to spend its money. Very bad.

[sturt]

Let me ask you this Sturt. You've got a car that you're looking to trade in at the dealership. The dealership has given x amount of money for the same car to other people who have traded one in but they've also gotten a nice rebate on a new car or some other type of incentive. Do you just take the money and not ask for the rebate on the new car? Would you feel satisfied with that? Or would you look back on that moment down the line as you're making payments on the car and think "damn I wish I had gotten a rebate on this car so that my payments would be lower"?

First, you assume that OKC would have put more on the table if we'd held out for that. Unless you have some hidden cameras or you can make some historical case out of previous 2nd round trades, I'm just not so confident that you have foundation to be quite so sure of yourself.

But too, I don't think we actually have to launch into car-buying analogies to see this for what it is. They are short on resources, this adds to their resources at least in the short-term, and maybe makes it a little more feasible for them to pursue re-signing Joe. If I'm one of them and just saw the team have success on the floor, yet not nearly enough box office and concessions, I know I sure as heck don't want to see my best player walk away.

[Admin]

First, you assume that OKC would have put more on the table if we'd held out for that. Unless you have some hidden cameras or you can make some historical case out of previous 2nd round trades, I'm just not so confident that you have foundation to be quite so sure of yourself.

But too, I don't think we actually have to launch into car-buying analogies to see this for what it is. They are short on resources, this adds to their resources at least in the short-term, and maybe makes it a little more feasible for them to pursue re-signing Joe. If I'm one of them and just saw the team have success on the floor, yet not nearly enough box office and concessions, I know I sure as heck don't want to see my best player walk away.

Sorry I should have been more clear, what I'm referring to is that history shows that you can get a future 1st, or at the very least a future 2nd, for the most valuable pick in the 2nd round. That's the extra incentive that I'm referring to that we didn't get and should have. If OKC weren't willing to give up that extra pick then I'm sure there would have been another team that would have.

This is how I see the transaction:

Good: Getting money and future 1st

Decent: Getting future 1st or getting money and future 2nd

Poor: Getting money or future 2nd

I absolutely have no problem with them getting the cash and I pray that helps us to keep Joe or make the moves we need to make this offseason but it worries me that we need that money and it bothers me that we didn't get an accompanying pick along with the money.

[AHF]

Let me elaborate on why this is a big deal.

We are a team that won't use the MLE because we don't want to spend the money. We are a team with a nice foundation of youth and upside potential whether JJ stays or goes.

If JJ goes, we will be like the Pacers in terms of being borderline to make the playoffs and not good enough to get a high % draft pick. At that stage in the game, you need to hit on someone like a Tony Parker to elevate your team or you will otherwise tread water until the bottom falls out and you are back among the dregs of the league. The middle of the pack is the worst place to be in the NBA.

Since we won't have any high lottery picks for the foreseeable future, it becomes absolutely critical to capitalize on our draft potential. That is the only realistic way this team is going to continue to improve - if they get an influx of new talent and that is especially true for positions of scarcity. Guys like Marcin Gortat are way too valuable for a team that wants to win to let go so you aren't getting decent centers from the FA pool.

So since none of your picks are going to be high % plays for starting level players, you need to work the system by picking as often as possible in a range that might get you a player like Anderson Varajao or DaJuan Blair or Carlos Boozer.

When you then turn around and give away those lottery tickets for a guaranteed low $$ payout, you are giving up a great chance to meaningfully advance the team's talent base and when you are going to be playing some lower odds going forward like the Hawks are, you can't squander those chances to "hit" and get a contributing player. Guys in their 30's that other teams don't want to resign are rarely going to cut it. If you want to talk about a bad % play, playing the low $$ veteran FA market is a bad % play.

[thescout]

Let me elaborate on why this is a big deal.

We are a team that won't use the MLE because we don't want to spend the money. We are a team with a nice foundation of youth and upside potential whether JJ stays or goes.

If JJ goes, we will be like the Pacers in terms of being borderline to make the playoffs and not good enough to get a high % draft pick. At that stage in the game, you need to hit on someone like a Tony Parker to elevate your team or you will otherwise tread water until the bottom falls out and you are back among the dregs of the league. The middle of the pack is the worst place to be in the NBA.

Since we won't have any high lottery picks for the foreseeable future, it becomes absolutely critical to capitalize on our draft potential. That is the only realistic way this team is going to continue to improve - if they get an influx of new talent and that is especially true for positions of scarcity. Guys like Marcin Gortat are way too valuable for a team that wants to win to let go so you aren't getting decent centers from the FA pool.

So since none of your picks are going to be high % plays for starting level players, you need to work the system by picking as often as possible in a range that might get you a player like Anderson Varajao or DaJuan Blair or Carlos Boozer.

When you then turn around and give away those lottery tickets for a guaranteed low $$ payout, you are giving up a great chance to meaningfully advance the team's talent base and when you are going to be playing some lower odds going forward like the Hawks are, you can't squander those chances to "hit" and get a contributing player. Guys in their 30's that other teams don't want to resign are rarely going to cut it. If you want to talk about a bad % play, playing the low $$ veteran FA market is a bad % play.

Agreed AHF with your post. Sometimes you don't need that star player to make your team better. Look at the Celtic's they have a trio of bigs in the middle to give Howard enough problems that it put the Celtics over the top. Little things add up and it's funny teams like the Celtics,Lakers do what it takes to win signing their own players and adding to the talent. The Hawks don't seem to get it or just are to poor to do it. Sell the team if you can't afford to put a team that has a chance to win a championship its not rocket science, Right now the Hawks will have to do everything to just resign JJ and I believe Crawford. If both players come back then how have we added to the talent base when you know the Hawks won't make any more moves in the off season.

They can talk how Drew is going to do this and that but the fact the Hawks still have an undersized team to face the elite teams it's going to be the same thing next year getting beat on the boards ,relying on jump shots and not winning in the paint means knocked out of the playoffs 1st or 2nd round.

[sturt]

Why don't we just sell our #27 pick then? That is a low % pick.

Evidently, they talked about doing just that.

But, I guess ultimately they thought Crawford might actually find a role for this season.

Hell, half of the #2 picks in the draft for the past decade have severely underachieved. Thabeet, Beasley, Darko, Jay Williams, Chandler, etc. Why not just sell that off, too?

What does that question have to do with anything? It's like asking, "Why not just sell off Al Horford, Josh Smith, and the whole lot of them, then?"

It's, after all, the same answer... not everything is worth $3 million, and the #2 pick of an entire draft represents greater value than $3 million. It's a business decision. The question is no more relevant than to suggest that the last pick of the draft is worth $3 million.

The #31 pick is a GOOD chance at a young player with the added advantage of not being a mandated guaranteed contract.

Through pick 35 of the second round over the last ten years we have seen:

Marko Jaric

Trenton Hassell

Gilbert Arenas

Carlos Boozer

Dan Gadzuric

Jason Kapono

Luke Walton

Andresen Varajao

Brandon Bass

CJ Miles

Carl Landry

Big Baby

Mario Chalmers

DeAndre Jordan

That doesn't include guys like Michael Redd, Monta Ellis, Andray Blatche, and many other success stories. You notice that picking this early in the second round, however, is not such a long-shot hypothetical.

How do you even say that?

10 years, 30 players in the round, equals 300 players.

Even if we just say the upper half of the round, that's 150 players over 10 years.

Your list above... about 15 players or so... is 10% of that.

This is a very bad sign for how this team plans to spend its money. Very bad.

There are legitimate concerns. Turning a second-round pick into cash in an off-season where, by most accounts, the most critical moves the team will make will be in free agency???.... that's not one of them.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Sturt . . I agree with you in that the fans are kind of overreacting over this, seeing that this was kind of a sorry draft full of "prospects". Even the guy that I liked ( Varnado ), is viewed as a "project".

But I have to agree with them that it does show a pattern of "cheapness". LOL @ selling a 2nd round pick for cash. Come on now. if anything, it was a horrible public relations move, even if it did make the owners quick money.

My thing is this. Why even make the trade with Jersey to get their 2 picks, if you're not even going to use both of them? The fans aren't even reacting like this, if they know that all we have to work with was the #24 and #53 picks. But when they made that trade and got #27 and #31, the fans gave Sund props, hoping he'd snag 2 players, instead of just having that one pick.

The cap hold for the 24th pick is $963,600. The cap hold for the 27th pick is $868,600. So they saved $95,000 by trading down AND acquired the #31 pick ( a 2nd RD pick in which doesn't have a cap hold until you sign them ). That was a good business move.

We were in position to take the best player available AND take whatever big man they felt had the most potential to help us. I mean, they could've taken just about ANY GUY that was a PF or a C that they worked out for the past 2 weeks at #31, and the fans wouldn't have been too upset about it.

But they blew it by not only giving up the pick, the gave it up for money.

Once again, from a business aspect, it was a good move. But it does nothing to improve the apathy that exist between the fans and the owners whom they perceive as "cheap . . . very cheap". If that money that we made by selling the pick, is used in free agency, then we'll see what type of vet we can bring in here.

I kind of seen this coming though, and I think it will get worse when JJ is either not re-signed, or given a low ball offer by the ASG ( 5 yrs - 75 mill ). Those owners are probably struggling with their own business ventures, and the revenue coming into Philips Arena isn't all that great either ( which I've written about for about 2 months now ). So while they've made moves to improve the team, they'll never go ALL OUT like some of the fans want them to. And while I've gotten onto the fans about "doing more" by going to the games, management can't afford to make public relations gaffes like this.

LOL .. I mean dang. Take one of the "project centers". Take a PF like Lawal or Varnado or anybody. Hell, even take a flyer on Da'sean Butler ( even though he's hurt ), stash him, and see if he can help us in a year or two. But don't sell the pick. That's the worst possible move they could've done.

Look at what Miami done with their 2nd round picks:

Dexter Pittman

Jarvais Varnado

Da'sean Butler ( who is hurt, but was a projected 1st round pick )

Latavious Williams

They basically gutted their entire team, so that they can be a major player in free agency. But they've now stockpiled their team with guys in the 2nd round that will have a chance to help them. And NONE OF THEM count against the cap, as long as they aren't signed.

Miami is 43 million under the cap right now, and can add 2 MAX players or 3 near max players, if they want to. If just 2 of those 2nd round picks turn into decent players that you can put into the rotation, the Heat will be elated.

Meanwhile, the Hawks make a move to act like they wanted to add multiple players, but end up selling the last pick to line their pockets.

I don't think this is a reason not to support the Hawks ( like some fans are talking about ), but I do understand why they are mad.

[thecampster]

Oh this whining about the 31st pick is making my head ache. Here's the skinny. Without Joe and assuming Chilldress signs with another team and we don't have his cap hold, we only have about 8 million to spend without going over the cap. If Joe does sign, we're over the cap....period. So we have only 2 choices, unsigned rookies, or vets at the minimum (except for the exception). We currently have 8 players under contract and 8 million to spend. Add Joe and the 2 rookies and you are way over the cap, approaching the luxury tax and still only have 11 players. You still need to sign one more player bare minimum and probably 3. Even if you sign and trade chillz, you are over the cap if you sign JJ. That money to sign a vet big was way more important than developing a prospect center who had health issues at his physical.

Expect Chilldress to be gone to clear his cap hold and for us to take back the bare minimum back in salary. Expect Joe to be gone and us to take back an underutilized or undercoached veteran.

[DrReality]

When it is all said and done we'll have to see if they pick up a FA with the 3 million before we can judge the move.