I'm still pissed about the Pape Sy pick.

[mrhonline]

The Hawks liked him better than Robinson for a reason.

The Hawks encouraged him to not talk to other teams for a reason.

Based on what evidence should we trust the Hawks' scouts?

If he had been outperformed by Robinson, the Hawks would have selected Robinson and not made promises to Sy (after Sy originally had to pay his own way to come to the workouts.)

You make it sound like those were the only two possible uses of the pick.

Once again, it was a poor use of assets. At least the Hawks saved money with their other moves. There is no justification for using the #53 on Sy. He easily could've been signed to the summer league roster.

The concern that he might be stolen from them could've been squelched by a cursory review of draft websites - no one on the planet was touting him publicly as an NBA-caliber player.

[coachx]

First, Zaza wasn't signed in the last 4 years so there is no reason he should be on my list of all free agents we signed the last 4 years.

Second, Zaza was signed and resigned both times for more than $3M so he can't be a comparison if you are talking about a $3M/year free agent. I am skeptical we get anyone worthwhile as a FA but if you list who you think are FAs that will get $3M/yr and would be willing to sign with the Hawks that might help.

ZaZa's 1st deal was $4 mill per year for 4 years right ? That is pretty darn close.

Here is a list a FA that will be probably be $3 mill or cheaper per year. Many of these guys will be LLE players. I am bolding the players who will likely get more then the LLE in my mind but not over $3 mill.

Tony Allen

Marquis Daniels

Larry Hughes

Theo Ratliff

Brad Miller - could play for the LLE on a contender. Good fit off the bench for teams running a triangle offense.

Flip Murray

Big Z

Johan Petro

Tim Thomas

Ben Wallace

CJ Watson

Kyle Lowry

Earl Watson

Steve Blake

Brian Skinner

Drew Gooden - $3 mill is possible and would be a steal

Craig Smith

Shannon Brown

Joel Anthony

Rafer Aslton

Luke Ridnour

Kurt Thomas

Darko Milic

Damien Wilkens

Matt Barnes

Chris Duhon

Eddie House

Matt Barnes

Adone Foyle

Channy Frye

Louise Amundson

Randy Foye

Matt Bonner

Kyle Korver

Roger Mason

Amir Johnson

Rasho Nesterovic

Edited June 29, 2010 by coachx

[spotatl]

you think that Ilgauskaus would sign with the hawks for less than 3 million? You don't think Matt Barnes would sign with the hawks for less than 3 million? Seriously? I think you are going to be grossly disappointed with who the Hawks actually sign this summer.

Edited June 29, 2010 by spotatl

[AHF]

It sounds like your point, mrh, is not that Sy can't be a player but that he could have been had risk free without using our draft pick since we could have signed him to a contract within an hour of the draft if we really believed in him.

[mrhonline]

It sounds like your point, mrh, is not that Sy can't be a player but that he could have been had risk free without using our draft pick since we could have signed him to a contract within an hour of the draft if we really believed in him.

Yep. The Hawks could've had TWO assets, not one. (It's worth mentioning that they could've used the Houston pick to move up if there was someone they targeted in the 40's).

With that said, I think there's about a 1% chance Sy is any good.

[coachx]

you don't think that Ilgauskaus will get more than 3 million? You don't think Matt Barnes is going to get more than 3 million? Seriously?

Are you talking to me ? You have been around a while. You should know what who knows what around here.

If you are replying to me, Matt Barnes name is bolded as a guy who will get more then LLE. He has the potential to get a full MLE deal but I in my opintion he will have to wait a long time. I see a $3 mill or $4 mill per deal getting it done. If he wants to play for a championship contender he may have to settle for the LLE. He was only paid $1.9 mill by the Magic last year and is. He is 30 years old and wings are a dime a dozen. I'd just assume have Damien Wilkens for the LLE then I would M. Barnes for $3 mill per.

No I do not think Big Z will get more then the LLE. He is not playing for money any more. If he plays at all it will be for the LLE for either the Cavs or a legit championship contender.Just my opinion.

Edited June 29, 2010 by coachx

[HawkItus]

If woody was still coaching I might agree whole-heartily with you. But, LD seems like he is willing to give young guys a chance. And he genuinely seems to like the Pope. So I'm taking the wait and see stance.

[spotatl]

If either Barnes or Illgauskaus signs for less than 3 million it will be with a contender- that has nothing to do with what the Hawks can get for their 3 million. I edited my post but you saw an older version of it. That would be a case of them signing for below market value because they want to win a championship more. Though I seriously doubt that barnes will sign for less to play for a contender consiering how little he has made in his career.

Edited June 29, 2010 by spotatl

[coachx]

you think that Ilgauskaus would sign with the hawks for less than 3 million? You don't think Matt Barnes would sign with the hawks for less than 3 million? Seriously? I think you are going to be grossly disappointed with who the Hawks actually sign this summer.

Matt Barnes is a 30 year old wing who made $1.9 mill last year. Ya, I think he would jump at a 2 or 3 year deal at $3 mill per. I would rather have Damien Wilkens for the LLE though.

Guys who would make me happy for the LLE:

Joel Anthony

Craig Smith

Damien Wilkens

Flip Murray

Theo Ratliff

If they choose to use the MLE its icing on the cake in my mind.

Edited June 29, 2010 by coachx

[AHF]

My thoughts on some of the free agents who won't play for us at a $3M/year level are listed below and I'll admit I can certainly be proven wrong but I don't see many of these guys as viable options to sign with the Hawks for $3M/year or less:

ZaZa's 1st deal was $4 mill per year for 4 years right ? That is pretty darn close.

Here is a list a FA that will be probably be $3 mill or cheaper per year. Many of these guys will be LLE players. I am bolding the players who will likely get more then the LLE in my mind but not over $3 mill.

Tony Allen

Marquis Daniels

Larry Hughes Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Theo Ratliff

Brad Miller - could play for the LLE on a contender. Good fit off the bench for teams running a triangle offense. -- Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Flip Murray

Big Z -- Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Johan Petro

Tim Thomas

Ben Wallace Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

CJ Watson Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Kyle Lowry

Earl Watson

Steve Blake

Brian Skinner

Drew Gooden - $3 mill is possible and would be a steal Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Craig Smith

Shannon Brown

Joel Anthony

Rafer Aslton

Luke Ridnour

Kurt Thomas Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Darko Milic Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Damien Wilkens

Matt Barnes Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Chris Duhon

Eddie House

Matt Barnes Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Adone Foyle

Channy Frye Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Louise Amundson

Randy Foye Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Matt Bonner

Kyle Korver Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Roger Mason

Amir Johnson Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Rasho Nesterovic

I fear us going out and buying a couple of players like Theo Ratliff that will end up costing more than a 31st pick and will just take up space on the bench.

[coachx]

If either Barnes or Illgauskaus signs for less than 3 million it will be with a contender- that has nothing to do with what the Hawks can get for their 3 million. I edited my post but you saw an older version of it. That would be a case of them signing for below market value because they want to win a championship more. Though I seriously doubt that barnes will sign for less to play for a contender consiering how little he has made in his career.

The dust must settle before we know who the contenders are. If JJ resigns with us then I believe we are on of those contending teams. Not top 4 but top 6 or 7....right up there with the likes of the Spurs.

[Buzzard]

Matt Barnes is a 30 year old wing who made $1.9 mill last year. Ya, I think he would jump at a 2 or 3 year deal at $3 mill per. I would rather have Damien Wilkens for the LLE though.

Guys who would make me happy for the LLE:

Joel Anthony

Craig Smith

Damien Wilkens

Flip Murray

Theo Ratliff

If they choose to use the MLE its icing on the cake in my mind.

From this list or the bigger one you made we get our center that Horf and the whole board is crying about, barring a SNT of JJ. Scratch the 26 million in contracts for Paul/Okafor; and add 3 to 5 million in a short term contract to Smoove and Horfs combined contracts. That will be our PF/C rotation along with the rest of our sub par bigs that line our bench. You say you will be happy. Then be happy.

Edited June 29, 2010 by Buzzard

[coachx]

From this list or the bigger one you made we get our center that Horf and the whole board is crying about, barring a SNT of JJ. Scratch the 26 million in contracts for Paul/Okafor; and add 3 to 5 million in a short term contract to Smoove and Horfs combined contracts. That will be our PF/C rotation along with the rest of our sub par bigs that line our bench. You say you will be happy. Then be happy.

Hey man....of course I prefer getting Paul / Okefor for Smoove / Crawford but to expect that is a little insane. That is a major Hawks fleecing in a blockbuster deal. However, I would not bet on that deal happening.

If JJ is resigned then all we have is the MLE and LLE's to sign FAs.This is what I expect as reaslitic with a resigned JJ.

Teague / Bibby

JJ / Crawford / Crawford

Marvin / Wilkens / Evans

Smoove / C. Smith

Horford / J. Anthony / ZaZa

Craig Smith > Joe Smith

Joel Anthony > ZaZa

Damien Wilkens > Mo Evans

Take out 1 of the LLE guys (Anthony, Smith or Wilkens) and sub in a MLE guy(like Gooden or Haslem perhaps) and its all gravey as far as realistic expectations.

If we resign Chillz then scratch D. Wilkens off the list.

Sign and trade Chillz is gravey too.

Edited June 29, 2010 by coachx

[Buzzard]

Hey man....of course I prefer getting Paul / Okefor for Smoove / Crawford but to expect that is a little insane. That is a major Hawks fleecing in a blockbuster deal. However, I would not bet on that deal happening.

If JJ is resigned then all we have is the MLE and LLE's to sign FAs.This is what I expect as reaslitic with a resigned JJ.

Teague / Bibby

JJ / Crawford / Crawford

Marvin / Wilkens / Evans

Smoove / C. Smith

Horford / J. Anthony / ZaZa

Craig Smith > Joe Smith

Joel Anthony > ZaZa

Damien Wilkens > Mo Evans

Take out 1 of the LLE guys (Anthony, Smith or Wilkens) and sub in a MLE guy(like Gooden or Haslem perhaps) and its all gravey as far as realistic expectations.

If we resign Chillz then scratch D. Wilkens off the list.

Sign and trade Chillz is gravey too.

More realistic for sure but thats a lot of work for our owners; and a more than the singular "veteran FA" they used. We will see how it shakes out.

[Guest]

Not "embarrassed" about taking Pepsi at 53, more regretful that we didn't take someone who will help our bench right away (when there were clearly such players available, a rarity at this point in the draft). Until he proves otherwise he's another Othello Hunter.

~lw3

More proof that the ASG is awful. Don't they know this is a Coke town? Unbelievable.

Seriously though, that was a good comment I'm surprised no one else mentioned anything about it.

[YP2K]

You make it sound like those were the only two possible uses of the pick.

I was responding to those who said that Robinson should have been the pick . . .

[YP2K]

Yep. The Hawks could've had TWO assets, not one. (It's worth mentioning that they could've used the Houston pick to move up if there was someone they targeted in the 40's).

With that said, I think there's about a 1% chance Sy is any good.

If the Hawks really liked the guy, why should they take that much of a risk that nobody else was in on their secret?

If he was better than the other guys around that part of the draft (obviously he was in their opinion), then they should have selected who they thought the best player available was, and not ran their draft on some hope that you can sneak and sign him after the draft . . .

[lethalweapon3]

More proof that the ASG is awful. Don't they know this is a Coke town? Unbelievable.

Seriously though, that was a good comment I'm surprised no one else mentioned anything about it.

He wasn't exactly The Choice of a New Generation of draft experts... OK, I'll stop there! :-)

Although if he sucks, as all indications are so far, I wouldn't mind carrying a sign to the arena with Pape Sy's & Ray Charles's faces on it saying, "Hey Sund! You Got The Wrong One Baby! Uh-Huh!"

~lw3

[AHF]

ZaZa's 1st deal was $4 mill per year for 4 years right ? That is pretty darn close.

Here is a list a FA that will be probably be $3 mill or cheaper per year. Many of these guys will be LLE players. I am bolding the players who will likely get more then the LLE in my mind but not over $3 mill.

Tony Allen

Marquis Daniels

Larry Hughes Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Theo Ratliff

Brad Miller - could play for the LLE on a contender. Good fit off the bench for teams running a triangle offense. -- Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Flip Murray

Big Z -- Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Johan Petro

Tim Thomas

Ben Wallace Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

CJ Watson Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Kyle Lowry

Earl Watson

Steve Blake

Brian Skinner

Drew Gooden - $3 mill is possible and would be a steal Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Craig Smith

Shannon Brown

Joel Anthony

Rafer Aslton

Luke Ridnour

Kurt Thomas Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Darko Milic Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Damien Wilkens

Matt Barnes Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Chris Duhon

Eddie House

Matt Barnes Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Adone Foyle

Channy Frye Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Louise Amundson

Randy Foye Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Matt Bonner

Kyle Korver Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Roger Mason

Amir Johnson Will not play for the Hawks for $3M/year

Rasho Nesterovic

Gooden down for $6M/year

Darko down for $5M/year

Edited July 1, 2010 by AHF

[coachx]

Gooden down for $6M/year

Darko down for $5M/year

I bet over half the list signs for $3 mill or less.

Edited July 1, 2010 by coachx