AJC: Hawks To Offer Full Max To Joe Johnson

[Admin]

Unless I read wrong, we will be under the luxury tax with 2-3M left to fill out the roster which means that we will have less room to sign FAs if we have a veteran in one of those slots instead of a second round pick (as per my post above). Also, it means the vets we will be signing will be of the ilk that you get when you are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

In making my current posts, I am assuming the ASG are not cheap and are willing to spend up to just below the tax and perhaps spend the tax in future years. In that case, I think it is penny-wise and pound foolish to sell such a good shot at adding a cheap talent with the upside to be a contributing player.

You may be right, I've been reading like crazy trying to catch up on today's posts this afternoon. And I do agree that if we aren't going into the tax this year then selling the 31st pick was probably not the best option.

[AHF]

Paying the luxury tax means losing revenue sharing and paying the dollar for dollar penalty - it is a pretty big step. I don't see it happening but I am happy to be proven wrong.

I have always thought that JJ was likely to return and for me selling the #31 pick didn't make any sense if you were going to be trying to move past the second round of the playoffs with JJ.

[Admin]

Paying the luxury tax means losing revenue sharing and paying the dollar for dollar penalty - it is a pretty big step. I don't see it happening but I am happy to be proven wrong.

I have always thought that JJ was likely to return and for me selling the #31 pick didn't make any sense if you were going to be trying to move past the second round of the playoffs with JJ.

Oh yeah I absolutely agree that it's a big step but I'm hoping this is the year they've decided that they have to either fold or go all in. I also agree that if we don't make any other significant moves that we're not going to get past the 2nd round, unless somehow Woody was the main reason for our failures and simply replacing him with LD will make us significantly better.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Wow . . . I gotta admit that I am shocked that they'd offer him a MAX deal right from the jump. That's a big time move from an ownership group that has ALWAYS been "reactive" instead of "proactive".

The ASG didn't blink when it came to JJ. You gotta love that. Or not . . if you're a JJ or ASG hater.

If the report is true, JJ now knows that he will be a MAX contract player, regardless of where he goes. Maybe with the early commital by ownership, JJ may be inclined to stay. Because now, he's basically saying that 25 - 30 more million doesn't DOES matter to him.

But at the very least, the Hawks have gained some leverage in a possible sign and trade. They can't control where JJ potentially wants to go ( if he wants to lave ATL ), but they now have forced teams to not only deal directly with JJ, but also with them.

I think this move effectively takes the Knicks out of the picture, because other than David Lee or Eddy Curry's expiring contract, I can't see what we'd want from them.

And that's what I want to start hearing in these next few hours . . that teams are pulling out from meeting with JJ. If not, I guess they still believe that he can be swayed fom ATL.

But this is a BIG first move in free agency. A move that should at the very least keep us in the top 4 or 5 in the East, and top 10 in the NBA.

Edited June 30, 2010 by northcyde

[mrhonline]

but since we don't know what (if any) S&T offers we've gotten he may be worth that to us since losing him for nothing would look really bad as far as their public image is concerned and more importantly it would leave us without the ability to replace him due to being over the cap.

S&T offers are in everyone's best interest. See Lewis, Rashard.

And one thing that keeps getting overlooked is that a TPE is HIGHLY valuable to a team over the cap but under the tax (like the Hawks).

[DJlaysitup]

...But then the flip side is how do the Hawks become legit title contenders if they let him walk?

In the past i always had an offseason wish list. Draft this guy, try to sign so and so. Now I am totally in wait and see mode.

I'm with ex on this one. But I will admit it will be more fun waiting and seeing with JJ in the fold.

Granted we don't jump into the top pre-season spot in the EC just by keeping JJ - but I'd rather watch us win 50+ WITH JJ than see us drop down to mid or low 40s without him. Heck, it's fun watching us win games....and who knows...a break here and there and a (real) offensive system and we could be right there at the end.

As far as all the locker room drama goes...maybe that will settle down a bit with LD in charge. (and if not and our guys are fighting each other - well - it won't be boring ....I seriously doubt that will happen though)

[clicklandshopping]

No, I'll be EVEN MORE critical of him now. I didn't think he was worth more than 2/3rds of this deal, if this is true.

Oh, I forgot if it isn't Kobe,Lebron or Wade then they are not max players. Joe Johnson is our max player for the Hawks....Period! Until someone else comes along and takes his title of being that player, we need to support our team and players.

[Packfill]

I'm with ex on this one. But I will admit it will be more fun waiting and seeing with JJ in the fold.

Granted we don't jump into the top pre-season spot in the EC just by keeping JJ - but I'd rather watch us win 50+ WITH JJ than see us drop down to mid or low 40s without him. Heck, it's fun watching us win games....and who knows...a break here and there and a (real) offensive system and we could be right there at the end.

As far as all the locker room drama goes...maybe that will settle down a bit with LD in charge. (and if not and our guys are fighting each other - well - it won't be boring ....I seriously doubt that will happen though)

I agree.

My only concern is that it will be hard to have such incrediblly good fortune as far as having no injuries for a second season in a row. It is pretty amazing how injury free the team was this past season when you think about it.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And people need to keep this in mimd.

We do still have a MAJOR trade chip to use: Jamal Crawford

And he's a trade chip that we don't necessarily have to use this summer. But as long as we use him by the trade deadline, he's a major trade chip.

Add Mo Evans with Jamal, and you now have around a 13 million dollar trade chip to potentially use sometime before next February.

A JJ MAX deal does not "cripple" the franchise by any stretch of the imagination. All we need to do is either get better complimentary players around JJ . . or trade one of our young stars for a veteran star that maybe couldn't get it done somewhere else.

And if sometime in the next 2 - 3 years we say that JJ is on the trading block, watch how may teams go after him. If he's still close to an All-Star caliber player, there will be a big money, championship contending team that will pick him up . . .ala what has happened in recent years with guys like Allen Iverson ( Philly to Denver ), Tracy McGrady ( Orlando to Houston ), Ray Allen ( Seattle to Boston ),Kevin Garnett ( Minnesota to Boston ), Shaq ( Miami to Phoenix ), and Vince Carter ( New Jersey to Orlando )

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And probably the best example in recent years . . . Pau Gasol ( Memphis to LA Lakers )

[gsuteke]

Why would you refuse to really invest financially into your roster for years and completely gut your own team in the Thrashers and then all of a sudden drop 120 million on a non super star player to maintain a team that is completely incapable of making it beyond the second round of the playoffs? It makes no sense. That is even worse than being cheap. Why all of a sudden would you drop 120 million on one player when you have other players to pay, a roster to fill out and still at the end of the day have a roster that is nothing more than a quick second round exit?

Can anyone explain this thinking, seriously?

Bad basketball decision makers and cheap are completely different. You called them cheap.

Resigning jj may actually be a good business decision if attendance climbs versus bottoming out again like it may if the team goes back to 35 wins again.

Good basketball and good business decisions are judged differently imo.

[AtLaS]

I just can't justify giving JJ that much money. We will be handcuffed. I just don't see the reasoning because it's not like we will magically become contenders by retaining him at an astronomical price. He will be one of the most overpaid players in the league.

[Sothron]

Oh, I forgot if it isn't Kobe,Lebron or Wade then they are not max players. Joe Johnson is our max player for the Hawks....Period! Until someone else comes along and takes his title of being that player, we need to support our team and players.

I will chime in and agree with this. I don't like this notion that only a handful of players in the entire NBA are worth a max deal. That is just how the cap works. Frankly the top guys are worth more than any max deal because of the value they bring to their teams. Non super star all -star players are worth max money and that is what JJ is.

[Sothron]

Bad basketball decision makers and cheap are completely different. You called them cheap.

Resigning jj may actually be a good business decision if attendance climbs versus bottoming out again like it may if the team goes back to 35 wins again.

Good basketball and good business decisions are judged differently imo.

I didn't just call them cheap. Their actions with both of the teams they own state quite clearly they are cheap. Deciding at the 11th hour to suddenly spend 120 million on one player to maintain a second round exit team is another thing entirely. I just don't see they ASG could go from "let's keep this payroll as low as possible while being in the playoffs" to "let's blow 120 million on one player and still have to pay Al Horford and still have to pay for an entire roster". THAT makes no sense. That is why I am completely baffled as to how they can switch gears like that. I just don't think it is possible. I'm not bringing cheap into this, I'm bringing what kind of 180 degree thinking could have taken place.

[HawksFan87]

Joe IS NOT worth 120 million dollars, I don't care what anyone says. They are over-paying for a 29 year-old ball hog. Who won't change much under the new coach. and I could careless if the players hang out , outside of playing basketball. As long as they all play hard on the court,whether they are friends , who cares??

[clicklandshopping]

Joe IS NOT worth 120 million dollars, I don't care what anyone says. They are over-paying for a 29 year-old ball hog. Who won't change much under the new coach. and I could careless if the players hang out , outside of playing basketball. As long as they all play hard on the court,whether they are friends , who cares??

So I guess you believe the owners should make all the money and the workers make whatever the boss wants to pay. Kind of like the real world......... Well I've learned to never worry what a man or woman makes and only worry about what I make. Handle your business Joe!!!!!

[DrReality]

Have to say one of the things I love the best about HS is the discussion by the old timers on topics like this. Respect that a lot. Keep on keeping on . . . . .

[GST]

Something to think about. 3 years ago, Orlando gave this kind of deal to Rashard Lewis (6 years/118 Million). Maybe they are thinking that Joe could be moved to a team looking for that final piece, even with an outrageous contract.

[Final_quest]

Unless I read wrong, we will be under the luxury tax with 2-3M left to fill out the roster which means that we will have less room to sign FAs if we have a veteran in one of those slots instead of a second round pick (as per my post above). Also, it means the vets we will be signing will be of the ilk that you get when you are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

In making my current posts, I am assuming the ASG are not cheap and are willing to spend up to just below the tax and perhaps spend the tax in future years. In that case, I think it is penny-wise and pound foolish to sell such a good shot at adding a cheap talent with the upside to be a contributing player.

I understand your position on this, but could we sign an undrafted rookie or 2nd rounder who gets cut for the same price as pick 31? In this scenario we get the $3million from pick 31, and get to choose from all of the unsigned rookies for the same contract price. So we get the money free and clear.

I understand this goes against what Sund said about needing veterans, but still a path we can take having not anticipated how much we end up paying Joe.

[Final_quest]

I didn't just call them cheap. Their actions with both of the teams they own state quite clearly they are cheap. Deciding at the 11th hour to suddenly spend 120 million on one player to maintain a second round exit team is another thing entirely. I just don't see they ASG could go from "let's keep this payroll as low as possible while being in the playoffs" to "let's blow 120 million on one player and still have to pay Al Horford and still have to pay for an entire roster". THAT makes no sense. That is why I am completely baffled as to how they can switch gears like that. I just don't think it is possible. I'm not bringing cheap into this, I'm bringing what kind of 180 degree thinking could have taken place.

There are a lot of mixed messages involved, but I'm gonna wait and see. One way to look at having the lowest payroll in the playoffs is that we are getting a lot for our money. What would be worse is if we had a high payroll with bad results like the JT-SAR-Big dog years.

That said I agree that if we give JJ the 120 million deal you have to question what the heck our owners are thinking. Nothing has been done yet. He could sign for a reasonable deal or get traded. Until the actual result comes in, I'm going to suspend judgement.