Aldridge: Hawks trying to sell Joe on contender status.

[Chinky_eyed_hawk]

We aren't beating Boston, Orlando or wherever Lebron goes in a seven game playoff series. Zero chance. We don't have the talent or the matchups to beat those teams in a seven game playoff series.

Is this due to the fact that our current roster enlist the services of JJ,Horford,Smoove,etc... or is this due to the fact, that in a seven game series we would have been outmatched at the 1/5 and out coached? I think a different coach with our squad from last year would have made at least a game or two diff in both series. I dont like the woodson bash, but at the end of the year, when coaching is more vital from game to game, this was clearly our biggest issue. Then it was the pg play and no interior help. I must be blind or I am one of the few who sees this. Instead of fixing those problems as it has been for the past 8+ yrs, we always want to blow up the roster. I just dont understand it.

[coachx]

I'm also of the opinion that the Hawks are wrong here, too. There really isn't a whole lot of precedent for trading aging guards on that massive a deal.

NBA.com

Allen Iverson was traded at 31

Ray Allen was traded at 32.

Vince Carter was traded at 33.

None of those players were an expiring contract.

Go back a little farther and look at the Steve Smith trade.....ha may have only been 30 but knees were 35.

[HawkItus]

Go back a little farther and look at the Steve Smith trade.....ha may have only been 30 but knees were 35.

And we still got the short of end of the stick with Isiah/Jimmy J

[Joker]

OT:

Chad Ford, ESPN Insider: The Blazers got close to a deal with the Hornets last week that would've sent Andre Miller, Joel Przybilla, Nicolas Batum, Jerryd Bayless and the 22nd pick to NO for Paul before Jeff Bower pulled out of the deal saying that their owner wasn't ready to trade Paul. The trade they made on draft night got them out of the luxury tax, so that's no longer the issue. The issue is whether Paul is no unhappy enough to force a trade. Personally I think the Hornets can do better than that for Paul, but it's a viable deal.

[mrhonline]

Allen Iverson was traded at 31

Ray Allen was traded at 32.

Vince Carter was traded at 33.

None of those players were an expiring contract.

Go back a little farther and look at the Steve Smith trade.....ha may have only been 30 but knees were 35.

Iverson is probably the closest in terms of dollars, but the difference is that he could actually draw fans to the game.

Ray Allen's deal has been discussed already. It wasn't nearly the same trainwreck as Joe's is.

The Nets had to give up Ryan Anderson just to get Orlando to take on his contract...and even so, his contract is much softer than Joe's.

(All three were better players than Joe in their primes, FWIW).

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Kobe had told everyone he was only playing for the Lakers and the Hornets took him anyways to get something for the pick. I remember the draft when they took him and how people were going nuts because the Hornets had dared to do it.

http://blog.nola.com/hornetsbeat/2009/03/former_hornets_gm_bob_bass_liv.html

[coachx]

Worse than Eddy Curry! This is starting to feel like the Twilight Zone.

or S. Marbury, S. Francis, A. Houston, G. Arenas, R. Lewis, Juan Howard, J. O'Niel, Michael Redd, Jalen Rose, Brian Grant, Jayson Williams, Zach Randolph, Elton Brand,

[coachx]

Iverson is probably the closest in terms of dollars, but the difference is that he could actually draw fans to the game.

Ray Allen's deal has been discussed already. It wasn't nearly the same trainwreck as Joe's is.

The Nets had to give up Ryan Anderson just to get Orlando to take on his contract...and even so, his contract is much softer than Joe's.

(All three were better players than Joe in their primes, FWIW).

You said there was no precendent for aging SG to be traded. Other named names like Mitch Richmond, Benard King (more of SF in his 30's), Clyde Drexler, Reggie Theus, Byron Scott, Macadoo, and the list goes on and on.

There is actually a HUGE precedent of this happening.

I simply named a few to show there is precedent.

Who knows how the contract will be structured or what the salary cap will be in 4 or 5 years ?

[Sothron]

http://blog.nola.com/hornetsbeat/2009/03/former_hornets_gm_bob_bass_liv.html

Yes, interesting, that just confirmed everything I said in my post. Kobe didn't work out for the Hornets and told them he wouldn't play there, he only wants to play for the Lakers.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Hickson and Big Z, but all of the team begged management not to do the deal and management finally craved in.

Right.

And JJ Hickson was the real sticking point in the entire deal, believe it or not. They were convinced not to give up Hickson . . lol . . and then Mike Brown barely plays the guy during the playoffs.

[mrhonline]

You said there was no precendent for aging SG to be traded.

Read it again and tell me what clause you left out.

Who knows how the contract will be structured or what the salary cap will be in 4 or 5 years ?

It's a max contract, so we'll know exactly how it'll be structured. As far as the cap, it'd have to grow quickly and drastically to change my opinion of this deal.

Edited July 1, 2010 by mrhonline

[coachx]

Al could make his "demand" either way. Keeping JJ actually makes it harder to bring in a center because of the lack of financial flexibility.

Disagree......we would not have had the money under the cap to sign an upgrade at center any way.

The only way we get an upgrade at center is a salary for salary trade involving Smoove or Crawford's expiring contract.

Edited July 1, 2010 by coachx

[coachx]

Discussion for another time and another board, no?

Either way, I don't expect sudden and dramatic growth.

I don't think so......if you want to talk future salary cap, as it relates to your JJ thread, how do you do so without bringing up the economy ?

[coachx]

Read it again and tell me what clause you left out.

It's a max contract, so we'll know exactly how it'll be structured. As far as the cap, it'd have to grow quickly and drastically to change my opinion of this deal.

Then why are details of the deal being worked out now ?

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2010/07/01/atlanta-hawks-waiting-on-j-j/

(UPDATE: A person with knowledge of the process said the Hawks are to meet with J.J. again

in L.A. with the expectation that the two sides will work out the details of a contract agreement.)

Do the Hawks have no flexibility at all ? Do they have to offer the raises each year ? Can they not front load the contract or make the contract more even so it is not so top heavy in the last 3 years ?

Was Ray Allen not on the max contract at the time he signed it ? Was Allen Iverson not on the max contract for the year he signed it? Was Vince Carter not on max contract for the year he signed it ?

I honestly do not know......I am just assuming that they were.

Edited July 1, 2010 by coachx

[DrReality]

I'm not sold that the ASG really want to pay that much money for him and that makes me think trade. I'd say its 50/50

[Johnnybravo4]

I'm not sold that the ASG really want to pay that much money for him and that makes me think trade. I'd say its 50/50

They'd still have to pay it regardless, whether it was to Joe or to multiple players in a SNT.

[mrhonline]

I don't think so......if you want to talk future salary cap, as it relates to your JJ thread, how do you do so without bringing up the economy ?

I'm trying to avoid the inevitable political discussions the economy brings...

[exodus]

They'd still have to pay it regardless, whether it was to Joe or to multiple players in a SNT.

No they don't, unless all of the players brought back in the trade have 6 year contracts, assuming that is even possible which i doubt.

[BusBoyIsBack]

We are more of a contender than the Knicks with Joe and Amare for sure IMO. Obviously not as big of a contender as say if Joe went to play with LeBron in Chicago or Wade and Bosh in Miami.

But we're definitely a contender right after those two teams.

Problem is there is a huge gap after those two teams more than likely so those two teams will be the ONLY contenders in the East unless teh Celtics have one last run.

Our one hope of being on par with those teams is if Josh Smith and Al Horford live up to their absolute potential. If Horford becomes like a 16/10 guy and Josh Smith a 19/11 guy then we have a chance.

[Crank]

The deal doesn't have to be massive. Boston got Ray Allen for the 5th pick overall. And Allen was what? 34?

I think that we can trade Joe eventually (if need be). I also don't think that we're not contenders. First off, I think we have gotten rid of a coach who couldn't contend. The jury is out on Drew. Secondly, I think that we will wheel and deal some other players.

I wouldnt take that risk Diesel there will be a new CBA after next season and I wouldnt be surprised if the NBA puts the screws to teams that give out those huge contracts to non superstar players .