Hawks MANAGMENT Grabd your ***** and pull the offer

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I don't think this is a knee jerk reaction. Negotiation is a delicate process. If the owners told him he has a standing offer, and gave him freedom to consider other offers, that is their business. A lot of deals you get an offer for a short window, and you have to complete the deal or else risk renegotiation.

I'm hoping the ASG have some sort of balls like Sarver and the Suns did with Amare. They didn't want to tie their franchise to him for the max price over 5 years. We should at least tell Joe sign now or else. The reason is if he comes crawling back now you know that he took a glance at the other options and walked away. That should give us some power to potentially change the deal.

These other teams may blink at giving Joe $100 million if the big names are already taken. Right now they feel that getting Joe on board gives them a chance at Wade or Lebron. Lebron and JJ together are worth the price, but take Lebron out of the equation and they may reconsider.

Sarver's "cheapness" has directly led to the Suns not reaching the NBA Finals. He'd rather lock up role players for mid-sized deals ( Diaw, Barbosa, now Hakim Warrick ), than to pay the stars that got them to this point. If Steve Nash was the engine that ran the Phoenix attack, Shawn Marion was the turbocharger that made it run even faster. But Shawn got scapegoated by the fans because he wasn't a "go-to type scorer". So they trade him for Shaq, in an experiment that failed miserably.

The Suns lost Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and now Amare Stoudamire . . the 3 guys that got the ball back rolling in Phoenix in 2003-04 ( before Nash come on the scene and made them much better ). But Barbosa is still there?

You pay your stars . . . not your fringe players.

You DO NOT win in this league without star players. The Suns think that the loss of Amare won't affect them much, because they have a very good bench. But they'll quickly find out just how important Amare was, when guys like Steve Nash start getting doubled all over the place, forcing those shooters to beat them. With Amare there, you couldn't do that, because Amare would kill you too.

That team just lost their leading scorer and rebounder, and replaced him with Hakim Warrick? What? Is Robin Lopez going to all of a sudden become a 10 rebound a night guy? Grant Hill was the 2nd leading rebounder on the Suns. Old man Grant Hill.

Edited July 3, 2010 by northcyde

[GST]

If you leave the contract on the table, Joe is going to treat it as his fallback plan. If he signs with us because nothing else worked out for him, just see how long it takes him to start demanding a trade. Do you really want a maxed-out, uncommitted Joe on the team?

[Diesel]

so guess that didnt work out for the Spurs getting Duncan..

Its also not a good look for the Thunder right now with there 3 Durant, Green, Westbrook..there future aint bright :rolleyes:

This team we have now is not going anywhere past the 2nd round so why continue to go on..DESTROY AND REBUILD THE FRANCHISE the right way

if you care about being relevant so be it..I CARE ABOUT SEEING THE HAWKS WIN A RING...

If the Hawks made better decisions drafting wise we would be in a much better place that is for sure then what we are in now

Oh, i gave the spurs their due. But as you and I both know, the only reason they got Duncan was so that Pitino wouldn't. The Spurs had like 7% of a chance to get Duncan.

[Diesel]

If you leave the contract on the table, Joe is going to treat it as his fallback plan. If he signs with us because nothing else worked out for him, just see how long it takes him to start demanding a trade. Do you really want a maxed-out, uncommitted Joe on the team?

So freaking what. If it's a fallback, it's a fallback. We have no other real option to obtain a star player right now but to be his fallback. You act like star players are dying to come to Atlanta and play for Larry Drew? You act as though we will be winners without Joe? You act as though we have a city that will support this team no matter what?? I don't give a damn if accepting our deal is the last damn thing on Joe's list after begging Cleveland to give him a max 5 year deal. If we lose Joe because of our own ineptitude then we deserve the 5-10 years of sorriness we will get.

[Swiftkick]

So freaking what. If it's a fallback, it's a fallback. We have no other real option to obtain a star player right now but to be his fallback. You act like star players are dying to come to Atlanta and play for Larry Drew? You act as though we will be winners without Joe? You act as though we have a city that will support this team no matter what?? I don't give a damn if accepting our deal is the last damn thing on Joe's list after begging Cleveland to give him a max 5 year deal. If we lose Joe because of our own ineptitude then we deserve the 5-10 years of sorriness we will get.

Id rather build the team the right way then stay relevant ..I dont think we will be *ss for the next 5 years without Joe ..Your going overboard..Id rather destroy and rebuild this franchise and draft right..My opinion this team in place is not going past the 2nd round ..so with that being said why bother spending all this kind of money if its truly not a championship team

Destroy and REBUILD

Let Joe Johnson walk or sign and trade with the Knicks.. bring on Chandler/Eddy Curry get contract off books

If New Orleans doesnt want to come off Paul thats fine...how about Collison ? you offer them Josh Smith./Marvin.we take Collison/Peja (whose contract comes off table next season )

PG Collison

SG Jordan Crawford

SF

PF Al Horford

C

I dont care if the HAWKS WIN 20 games next year as long as they try hard and build team right way with young players and give the young players to develop and you NEVER know if we get in the lottery a nice stud might fall into our laps

Then we can become players in the 2011 free agency .with Curry/Peja contract coming off table

Lets say we make a run at Melo and Marc Gasol...we would have the cap to do so..

Melo has his business here ..his wife is friends with alot of people in the area

2011 Atlanta Hawks roster

PG Collison

SG Crawford

SF Melo

PF Horford

C Marc Gasol

you know what thats a pretty legit team that could battle in the EAST and be a legit contender..

Edited July 3, 2010 by Swiftkick

[Final_quest]

I agree with Swift, but really people are making this into an argument of if Joe is worth the max or not. I clearly say no, not for six years. We can have that argument in another thread, though.

None of us know what the conversation was between Joe and the ASG. In business sometimes you make an offer that is a standing offer for the other party to accept anytime they want, but other times you give a short window to accept the offer. To me the whole point of coming at JJ with a max offer was so that he wouldn't go window shopping. If it was Wade or Lebron you are making the max offer regardless and they know that the franchise will not make a lower offer under any circumstances. JJ is not in that category however. He needs to know that if he wants to look elsewhere that our incredibly sweet offer is subject to change. That's my opinion, but there may have been a conversation with ASG where Joe was really up front and gracious to them saying that he really would appreciate the opportunity to meet with the other teams. I don't know how it went down. To me the conversation details are important in deciding if this is a major snub by JJ or not.

Going back the Mr. H's hypothesis, what if this is all a sham and the intention all along was to get the most for JJ out of a sign and trade? Now every team knows that they have to offer the max for JJ, and may even match the ASG offer.

[Swiftkick]

None of us know what the conversation was between Joe and the ASG. In business sometimes you make an offer that is a standing offer for the other party to accept anytime they want, but other times you give a short window to accept the offer. To me the whole point of coming at JJ with a max offer was so that he wouldn't go window shopping. If it was Wade or Lebron you are making the max offer regardless and they know that the franchise will not make a lower offer under any circumstances. JJ is not in that category however. He needs to know that if he wants to look elsewhere that our incredibly sweet offer is subject to change. That's my opinion, but there may have been a conversation with ASG where Joe was really up front and gracious to them saying that he really would appreciate the opportunity to meet with the other teams. I don't know how it went down. To me the conversation details are important in deciding if this is a major snub by JJ or not.

nailed it

very well put..

[Sothron]

Sarver's "cheapness" has directly led to the Suns not reaching the NBA Finals. He'd rather lock up role players for mid-sized deals ( Diaw, Barbosa, now Hakim Warrick ), than to pay the stars that got them to this point. If Steve Nash was the engine that ran the Phoenix attack, Shawn Marion was the turbocharger that made it run even faster. But Shawn got scapegoated by the fans because he wasn't a "go-to type scorer". So they trade him for Shaq, in an experiment that failed miserably.

The Suns lost Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and now Amare Stoudamire . . the 3 guys that got the ball back rolling in Phoenix in 2003-04 ( before Nash come on the scene and made them much better ). But Barbosa is still there?

You pay your stars . . . not your fringe players.

You DO NOT win in this league without star players. The Suns think that the loss of Amare won't affect them much, because they have a very good bench. But they'll quickly find out just how important Amare was, when guys like Steve Nash start getting doubled all over the place, forcing those shooters to beat them. With Amare there, you couldn't do that, because Amare would kill you too.

That team just lost their leading scorer and rebounder, and replaced him with Hakim Warrick? What? Is Robin Lopez going to all of a sudden become a 10 rebound a night guy? Grant Hill was the 2nd leading rebounder on the Suns. Old man Grant Hill.

+1. agree with everything you said. The NBA is the only superstar league in the playoffs where you won't ever, ever, ever make it out of the second round let alone win a title unless you have real stars not just average starters.

[sturt]

I agree with Swift, but really people are making this into an argument of if Joe is worth the max or not. I clearly say no, not for six years. We can have that argument in another thread, though.

None of us know what the conversation was between Joe and the ASG. In business sometimes you make an offer that is a standing offer for the other party to accept anytime they want, but other times you give a short window to accept the offer. To me the whole point of coming at JJ with a max offer was so that he wouldn't go window shopping. If it was Wade or Lebron you are making the max offer regardless and they know that the franchise will not make a lower offer under any circumstances. JJ is not in that category however. He needs to know that if he wants to look elsewhere that our incredibly sweet offer is subject to change. That's my opinion, but there may have been a conversation with ASG where Joe was really up front and gracious to them saying that he really would appreciate the opportunity to meet with the other teams. I don't know how it went down. To me the conversation details are important in deciding if this is a major snub by JJ or not.

Going back the Mr. H's hypothesis, what if this is all a sham and the intention all along was to get the most for JJ out of a sign and trade? Now every team knows that they have to offer the max for JJ, and may even match the ASG offer.

1) And when you give a short window, it's because you have a second option you can consummate that is more attractive than the first option. That doesn't apply here.

2) Why do we care if he goes window shopping? What, like we aren't also window shopping as well?

3) Can't help but observe that the "he needs to know" statement sounds like a parent lecturing their adolescent trying to regain control over a situation.

[Swiftkick]

1) And when you give a short window, it's because you have a second option you can consummate that is more attractive than the first option. That doesn't apply here.

2) Why do we care if he goes window shopping? What, like we aren't also window shopping as well?

3) Can't help but observe that the "he needs to know" statement sounds like a parent lecturing their adolescent trying to regain control over a situation.

we do have other options..just cause we strapped in Free agency doesnt mean we cant make moves

Paul or Collison out there

and even Melo

why cant we make a run for either and go in that direction

2)If you were presented a Ferrari /lambo/bentley whatever your dream car is while you might not be in the city you want to drive that dream car of yours you are happy that you got that dream car WOULD YOU WINDOW SHOP ??

3)Joe does NEED to know..that we have BEEN very generous with that offer and if he wants to window shop for a better town and better situation so be it

do it with our offer the table

[oldorder]

What in the world gives you the idea that Collison, Gasol, or Melo even want to play in Atlanta? I have hear not a peep out of Melo's situatuion. New Orleans isnt giving up a potential starter in Collision for cheap. Hell, even Gasol is likely to stay with the Grizzlies. So what makes you so confident that you can put this team together, when you would have a tough time pulling those kind of signings in NBA 2k10?

[sturt]

we do have other options..just cause we strapped in Free agency doesnt mean we cant make moves

Paul or Collison out there

and even Melo

why cant we make a run for either and go in that direction

You can make a trade with or without Joe Johnson.

Maybe I'm giving a GM who has been in this business for 30 years too much credit, but I'm lock certain that that fact has not evaded Rick Sund.

2)If you were presented a Ferrari /lambo/bentley whatever your dream car is while you might not be in the city you want to drive that dream car of yours you are happy that you got that dream car WOULD YOU WINDOW SHOP ??

I'll not bother with the analogy because this isn't exactly a complex issue that none of us understand, nor is it one that gets simplified by talking about dream cars.

So, you genuinely don't think Sund is on the phone exploring his other options (i.e., window shopping)? If Sund is evaluating his other options, it's fairly asinine to be criticizing Joe for evaluating his.

3)Joe does NEED to know..that we have BEEN very generous with that offer and if he wants to window shop for a better town and better situation so be it

do it with our offer the table

If you only knew how whiny that sounds.

[exodus]

This thread is lame. None of the top free agents have committed anywhere. they are just doing their due diligence, seeing what everyone has to offer. They cant sign until friday so they have no reason to rush. Free agency just started two days ago for crying out loud. Get a grip.

[ATLBob]

Wow.

Rebuild?

Draft right?

LMAO, with what? Picks 14-20?

Even without MAX Joe, we won't fall off that badly.

We'll be a borderline playoff team with zero chance of sniffing the second round again any time soon, but we won't be getting any stars through the draft either.

Sorry MAX Joe is hurting your feelings by not sending flowers.

[lethalweapon3]

All this "No shot at ever winning a title" stuff tickles me.

People looked at this team:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2006.html

and lamented that such a team with ballhog multi-millionaire Iso-Kobe would never be capable of winning a title. Oh, what a difference (less than) six years make.

Ya gotta feel for Joe a bit. Snatch the max contract off the table right away, and he's pilloried as the money-mooching player happy to settle in basketball-boring Atlanta for perennial coaching selections at the All-Star Game, and presumably no shot ever-ever-ever of winning a title. Take a week or two to look at options to compete for championships elsewhere, and he's the guy who "could care less" about Atlanta.

Stay here, and you're pilloried for a half-dozen years over your salary since you can't possibly be "The Man." Go somewhere else, and they'll gripe about your money since you're obviously not "The Man" they were hoping for; you're the max-money booby-prize. Go join "The Man" somewhere else at his behest, and if your team fails to win the title right away, YOU get run out of town on a rail for being incapable of helping "The Man" despite all that money you're making.

When your kids express lofty dreams of being an NBA All-Star, show them Joe Johnson as Exhibit A, and then have him/her explore the wonders of jai-alai. I'd much rather make my $121 million off of scratch-off lotto tickets than take the beating he's getting from all sides.

Forget being "at the top," like the ringless highlight film named LeBron. It's really lonely when you're near the top...

~lw3

[Swiftkick]

What in the world gives you the idea that Collison, Gasol, or Melo even want to play in Atlanta? I have hear not a peep out of Melo's situatuion. New Orleans isnt giving up a potential starter in Collision for cheap. Hell, even Gasol is likely to stay with the Grizzlies. So what makes you so confident that you can put this team together, when you would have a tough time pulling those kind of signings in NBA 2k10?

Collison/Peja would come here for Josh Smith & Marvin Williams... New Orleans would love to pair Josh with Paul and see how that works..they could then look to move West for depth

why would Gasol come here $$$$ if we come to him next off season with a big time offer why wouldnt he..

We would then have 3 nice young pieces in play .(Collison,Jordan Crawford, Al Horford)

Those are all 3 young pieces..we go hard at Gasol get that big men to pair with Horford

Then make that run AT CARMELO

Carmelo has his record label in the city of ATLANTA

His wife LALA is good friends with alot of people in the area ...plus have 3 young players with ton of potential and a LEGIT big man in Gasol

PG Collison

SG Jordan Crawford

SF Carmelo

PF Al Horford

C Gasol

That is a legit contender that has inside scoring a superstar in Melo a young stud at SG and a PG that can score and create for himself in Collison

PROBLEM SOLVED

[99PROBL3MS]

All this "No shot at ever winning a title" stuff tickles me.

People looked at this team:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2006.html

and lamented that such a team with ballhog multi-millionaire Iso-Kobe would never be capable of winning a title. Oh, what a difference (less than) six years make.

Ya gotta feel for Joe a bit. Snatch the max contract off the table right away, and he's pilloried as the money-mooching player happy to settle in basketball-boring Atlanta for perennial coaching selections at the All-Star Game, and presumably no shot ever-ever-ever of winning a title. Take a week or two to look at options to compete for championships elsewhere, and he's the guy who "could care less" about Atlanta.

Stay here, and you're pilloried for a half-dozen years over your salary since you can't possibly be "The Man." Go somewhere else, and they'll gripe about your money since you're obviously not "The Man" they were hoping for; you're the max-money booby-prize. Go join "The Man" somewhere else at his behest, and if your team fails to win the title right away, YOU get run out of town on a rail for being incapable of helping "The Man" despite all that money you're making.

When your kids express lofty dreams of being an NBA All-Star, show them Joe Johnson as Exhibit A, and then have him/her explore the wonders of jai-alai. I'd much rather make my $121 million off of scratch-off lotto tickets than take the beating he's getting from all sides.

Forget being "at the top," like the ringless highlight film named LeBron. It's really lonely when you're near the top...

~lw3

Good post. Woody ran Joe into the ground. He played far too many minutes and had to endure far too many responsibilities due to the makeup of the roster and Woody's offensive ineptitude. He reaggravated the sprained thumb on his shooting hand during the Bucks series and shot bad from there. People saying he doesn't show up for the playoffs seem to forget Game 7 vs Miami last season when JJ put on a show. He held Wade to 10-25 shooting and also came up with 27pts 5rebs 5asst and 5stls. No one ever mentions games like that. He has earned the right to make this decision when he so chooses. As it has been pointed out, It has been TWO days. TWO!!!! Is it that big of a deal after TWO days? I also can't see Melo coming here to play without JJ here. Melo is surrounded by plenty of talent out there in Denver and has only been past the first round of the playoffs once. They would make a great 1/2 punch but replacing JJ with Melo would yield identical results in terms of win/loss record.

Edited July 3, 2010 by 99PROBL3MS

[mrhonline]

People looked at this team:

http://www.basketbal...s/LAL/2006.html

and lamented that such a team with ballhog multi-millionaire Iso-Kobe would never be capable of winning a title. Oh, what a difference being giftwrapped one of the best big men in the NBA and having wealthy owners make.

FYP

[lethalweapon3]

People looked at this team:

http://www.basketbal...s/LAL/2006.html

and lamented that such a team with ballhog multi-millionaire Iso-Kobe would never be capable of winning a title. Oh, what a difference being giftwrapped one of the best big men in the NBA and having wealthy owners make.

FYP

And we have six years to collect gifts (drafts, trades, and free agents) and watch A$G sell this team (very much a possibility) to true wealthy owners. Again, it's premature to say Joe signing this contract, alone, dooms this franchise to sustained mediocrity.

~lw3

[Plainview1981]

All this "No shot at ever winning a title" stuff tickles me.

People looked at this team:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2006.html

and lamented that such a team with ballhog multi-millionaire Iso-Kobe would never be capable of winning a title. Oh, what a difference (less than) six years make.

Ya gotta feel for Joe a bit. Snatch the max contract off the table right away, and he's pilloried as the money-mooching player happy to settle in basketball-boring Atlanta for perennial coaching selections at the All-Star Game, and presumably no shot ever-ever-ever of winning a title. Take a week or two to look at options to compete for championships elsewhere, and he's the guy who "could care less" about Atlanta.

Stay here, and you're pilloried for a half-dozen years over your salary since you can't possibly be "The Man." Go somewhere else, and they'll gripe about your money since you're obviously not "The Man" they were hoping for; you're the max-money booby-prize. Go join "The Man" somewhere else at his behest, and if your team fails to win the title right away, YOU get run out of town on a rail for being incapable of helping "The Man" despite all that money you're making.

When your kids express lofty dreams of being an NBA All-Star, show them Joe Johnson as Exhibit A, and then have him/her explore the wonders of jai-alai. I'd much rather make my $121 million off of scratch-off lotto tickets than take the beating he's getting from all sides.

Forget being "at the top," like the ringless highlight film named LeBron. It's really lonely when you're near the top...

~lw3

The Lakers have also had the luck and intelligence to build championship and really good teams for decades. When have the Hawks showed or had either one?

Pretty rarely.

Comparing the Lakers to the Hawks makes me want to give a big lol.

The fans here are unsure because the franchise has made several blunders and luck has rarely went the Hawks way.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Hotlanta1981