Non-Hawks fans reaction to JJ Max Deal

[WraithSentinel]

We know JJ is overpayed. In our situation we know it had to be done. I do find it funny how you got Knicks and Bulls fans in particular celebrating the non-signing of JJ as a historic moment in their franchise by saying their dodge the big one. The funny part is both teams were willing to offer JJ the 5 year Max which was $100M over 5 years. So we gave him an extra year. That 6th year will be a very valuable expiring contract.

One thing that bugs me is they dog our franchise by usually saying "He doesn't care about winning and only about the money" speeches. Which is why he went back to the Hawks. Somehow we have been a losing franchise recently? I have never seen a 53 win get more disrespected then the Hawks have been this offseason. We are an after thought once again.

Bulls are no close to the championship then we are even with the Boozer addition. Knicks are still a work in progress. Had either team sign him they would be doing cartwheel bragging about signing JJ. In the end they basically offer the same contract we did.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Paladin

[NineOhTheRino]

I was shocked that Joe didn't leave $1 on the table. If I were in Joe's shoes I would have left enough money to sign a quality center. And I would hold ASG's feet to the fire on that. I'm telling them to take about 5 million per off my deal and use it the get this team over the hump. Would have been an excellent gesture from Joe to show fans that he's not the heartless mercenary that he's being portrayed to be in the media.

[clicklandshopping]

We know JJ is overpayed. In our situation we know it had to be done. I do find it funny how you got Knicks and Bulls fans in particular celebrating the non-signing of JJ as a historic moment in their franchise by saying their dodge the big one. The funny part is both teams were willing to offer JJ the 5 year Max which was $100M over 5 years. So we gave him an extra year. That 6th year will be a very valuable expiring contract.

One thing that bugs me is they dog our franchise by usually saying "He doesn't care about winning and only about the money" speeches. Which is why he went back to the Hawks. Somehow we have been a losing franchise recently? I have never seen a 53 win get more disrespected then the Hawks have been this offseason. We are an after thought once again.

Bulls are no close to the championship then we are even with the Boozer addition. Knicks are still a work in progress. Had either team sign him they would be doing cartwheel bragging about signing JJ. In the end they basically offer the same contract we did.

I agree!!!! I think we get disrespected because the Media doesn't like our fanbase and teams are just used to disrespecting our team. We are sorta like the Clipper of the East and fans from other teams expected us to go back to our losing ways. I think Amare will have to prove he can be dominate without Nash in my opinion, and Knick fans should be worrying about his Max contract!!!!! I think if we keep our core players we will be successful for a long time and compete for an NBA championship one day!!!!

[spotatl]

If I were in Joe's shoes I would have left enough money to sign a quality center

Lets say a quality center would cost at least 7 million a year starting out. This wouldn't get you a Brendan Haywood but may be able to get you a decling Shaq. That would mean that Joe would have given up 53 million dollars over the life of his contract to leave enough room for that quality center. I'll just say its a whole lot easier asking someone else to give up money.

If he cared more about winning than he did about the extra guaranteed money then I think its pretty likely he would have just signed with another team.

Edited July 12, 2010 by spotatl

[Buzzard]

I was shocked that Joe didn't leave $1 on the table. If I were in Joe's shoes I would have left enough money to sign a quality center. And I would hold ASG's feet to the fire on that. I'm telling them to take about 5 million per off my deal and use it the get this team over the hump. Would have been an excellent gesture from Joe to show fans that he's not the heartless mercenary that he's being portrayed to be in the media.

You are a generous man. Wish you had five million to throw my way. JJ did nothing wrong here. Who is to say he will not rework his deal later when our management shows him they are serious about putting a winner on the table?

He is the only big time FA/Player our owners have commited to since he has been a Hawk. The Lakers, Mavs, Celtics, and Heat make expensive moves every year. Until our management starts doing similar things, I do not blame him one bit for taking his 1st max contract; and not leaving anything on the table for our owners to simply keep on their books.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Buzzard

[mudderfudder77]

We know JJ is overpayed. In our situation we know it had to be done. I do find it funny how you got Knicks and Bulls fans in particular celebrating the non-signing of JJ as a historic moment in their franchise by saying their dodge the big one. The funny part is both teams were willing to offer JJ the 5 year Max which was $100M over 5 years. So we gave him an extra year. That 6th year will be a very valuable expiring contract.

One thing that bugs me is they dog our franchise by usually saying "He doesn't care about winning and only about the money" speeches. Which is why he went back to the Hawks. Somehow we have been a losing franchise recently? I have never seen a 53 win get more disrespected then the Hawks have been this offseason. We are an after thought once again.

Bulls are no close to the championship then we are even with the Boozer addition. Knicks are still a work in progress. Had either team sign him they would be doing cartwheel bragging about signing JJ. In the end they basically offer the same contract we did.

Reliable sources from inside the Bulls say that they were going to offer 4yrs and 60 million. Most Bulls fans on the board I frequent were very clear before FA started that they did not want to commit money to Joe Johnson - so it isn't like this is sour grapes.

Personally - I would have been fine with paying Joe Johnson 5/100 if we also got Boozer. JJ would have fit perfectly with that team.

I also find it funny that after 10 years of other teams fans telling Bulls fans that 'you need a post presence' - so the Bulls go out and get one of the best - and fans are now saying the move does little to help them.

As far as expiring contracts go - the 2010 FA frenzy has completely over stated the value of expirings.

[AHF]

I don't think this is exactly right. This offseason is really showing that an expiring contract is tied to how much other cap space is out there. Its not necessarily that teams are overvaluing the expiring contact, its that they fail to see/anticipate how much cap space will be available. If there is a lot out there, then acquiring an expiring doesn't have much value. But if there is little cap space available then an expiring is very valuable.

That is my view.

On JJ/CHI, if they were only willing to go 4 years/$60M then they were never a player to begin with. That is like saying you'd like to sign Lebron but you are not willing to pay the max. If you won't give JJ more than that or give Lebron every penny you can, you aren't in the game.

[WraithSentinel]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1034537

[NineOhTheRino]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1034537

The contract is idiotic. If the Hawks offered to trade Johnson to the Bulls for a second-round pick tomorrow, I'd say no. He's going to make close to $24 million when he's 34 years old.

Edited July 12, 2010 by NineOhTheRino

[99PROBL3MS]

Serious question......why on earth have so many Rival fans/media/some hawks fans become so worried how JJ plays 5 seasons from now???? I mean really? For all we no barring injury, JJ should still be a very good player at that age. He won't forget how to handle the ball, shoot, pass, etc. Whose to say he doesn't get traded before then? I just don't get why some are so worried about 4 or 5 seasons from now.

[mudderfudder77]

Serious question......why on earth have so many Rival fans/media/some hawks fans become so worried how JJ plays 5 seasons from now???? I mean really? For all we no barring injury, JJ should still be a very good player at that age. He won't forget how to handle the ball, shoot, pass, etc. Whose to say he doesn't get traded before then? I just don't get why some are so worried about 4 or 5 seasons from now.

Because the shelf life of a 2 guard goes to pot at about 32. I don't have the stats - but someone listed out the stats on some of the NBA's best guards and what they were doing at 34 - it wasn't pretty. With cap space and contract details as important to fans as they are now - alot of fans are much more critical of what players are going to be making when they are losing their production. There have only been 13 total seasons in the history of the NBA where a guard over 32 has avgd 20 points in a season - and 4 of those belong to Jordan.

Its why Luol Deng - a decent player - is absolutely vilified. No way he will be close to worth the 16million he will make in the last year of his deal.

[mudderfudder77]

That is my view.

On JJ/CHI, if they were only willing to go 4 years/$60M then they were never a player to begin with. That is like saying you'd like to sign Lebron but you are not willing to pay the max. If you won't give JJ more than that or give Lebron every penny you can, you aren't in the game.

Maybe - but no one expected him to get the max - and the only other team really talking about JJ were the Knicks - and even the Knicks were only talking about him at a reduced rate.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I was shocked that Joe didn't leave $1 on the table. If I were in Joe's shoes I would have left enough money to sign a quality center. And I would hold ASG's feet to the fire on that. I'm telling them to take about 5 million per off my deal and use it the get this team over the hump. Would have been an excellent gesture from Joe to show fans that he's not the heartless mercenary that he's being portrayed to be in the media.

So let's see. You want him to basically take 30 million less a year, making him sign a 6 yr - 90 or 95 million dollar deal ( 15 - 16 million a year ).

Nine . .. even you wouldn't do that. Especially when one of those desperate teams would've given JJ a 5 year - 100 million deal in a heartbeat ( and possibly frontloaded the contract ).

Fans kill me, acting like the difference in millions of dollars is nothing. I thought the ASG might be able to secure JJ for 6 yrs - 105 to 110 million. But they didn't want to take a chance and not lose him, because they knew they couldn't replace him with a player of his caliber.

And even if JJ gave back 5 million per year on his deal, we're still over the salary cap. If JJ made 11 million per year next year, we'd still be over the cap, and couldn't spend more than the MLE to sign a center.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Serious question......why on earth have so many Rival fans/media/some hawks fans become so worried how JJ plays 5 seasons from now???? I mean really? For all we no barring injury, JJ should still be a very good player at that age. He won't forget how to handle the ball, shoot, pass, etc. Whose to say he doesn't get traded before then? I just don't get why some are so worried about 4 or 5 seasons from now.

Because when fans don't like a player, they need a reason to justify their "hate".

[AHF]

even the Knicks were only talking about him at a reduced rate.

I don't think there was much talk about a reduced rate JJ to the Knicks:

New York Knicks to Offer Joe Johnson Max Contract, ESPN's Chris Broussard Claims

http://ballhype.com/article/new-york-knicks-to-offer-joe-johnson-max-contract-espn/

ESPN reported this morning that the New York Knicks were going to offer Atlanta Hawk's Joe Johnson the NBA's maximum free agent contract.

May 10, 2010 - Atlanta, GEORGIA, UNITED STATES - epa02151806 Orlando Magic center Dwight Howard (L) guards Atlanta Hawks guard Joe Johnson in the second half of Game 4 of their Eastern Conference semifinal round NBA playoff basketball game at Philips Arena in Atlanta, Georgia, USA on 10 May 2010. The Magic defeated the Hawks 98-84 to win the series 4-0.

The maximum contract is worth 96 million over 5 years or potentially up to 125 million if the Hawks opt to do a sign and trade.

http://sports.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978333884

Knicks president Donnie Walsh and coach Mike D'Antoni are finalizing plans to meet with Hawks free agent Joe Johnson in Los Angeles on Wednesday at midnight -- 9 p.m. California time -- when free agency officially begins before flying to Ohio for the LeBron James pow-wow.

The Knicks have long considered Johnson a maximum-contract player and they conceivably could try to get a commitment from him and taking that information to James on Thursday.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/johnson_holds_key_to_knicks_plan_rG8XWBWK7u9kJMZOGkpIXK

etc.

There are also dozens of references to the difference between what JJ was offered by other teams and by Atlanta was the 6th year.

This isn't to say that JJ was absolutely worth it or that a team like the Bulls would have done it, but JJ was getting the max on a 5 or 6 year deal.

Edited July 12, 2010 by AHF

[hawkman]

After all of this nonsense, I really hope JJ has a monster season and Playoffs next season. Maybe then people will leave him and the Hawks alone. There's always negativity surrounding this team and its decisions. It's getting old.

[mudderfudder77]

I don't believe that at all. Its an after the fact type of move to say you wouldn't have offered a Max deal. In fact, leading up to the deal with the Hawks the Bulls and Knicks were long considered suitors for Joe...at the Max. You could probably even say the same for the Heat.

The reports coming out of Chicago about the Bulls not going beyond 4 years and $60 million stem from 1)its after the events happened not before and 2)looking at the kind of deal Pierce got and claiming thats the kind of deal they would offer.

Check the Bulls board on RealGM - we have two guys on that board who have decent inside information - and both were reporting that the Bulls had JJ as their #1 target (other than Wade/Bosh/Lebron) and were looking at a 4yr 60 million dollar deal. Now its entirely possible the Bulls would have upped it to the max once numbers started flying - but going into FA thats what they were proposing/thinking.

[AHF]

Check the Bulls board on RealGM - we have two guys on that board who have decent inside information - and both were reporting that the Bulls had JJ as their #1 target (other than Wade/Bosh/Lebron) and were looking at a 4yr 60 million dollar deal. Now its entirely possible the Bulls would have upped it to the max once numbers started flying - but going into FA thats what they were proposing/thinking.

There seems to be little indication that NY was talking anything other than max for JJ except in the context of talking about trying to sign 3 of the big FAs for less than max money (which was always a pipe dream).

[spotatl]

if the Bulls thought that JJ at 4 years and 60 million was realistic then they shoudl be fired for incompetence.

[niremetal]

Because the shelf life of a 2 guard goes to pot at about 32. I don't have the stats - but someone listed out the stats on some of the NBA's best guards and what they were doing at 34 - it wasn't pretty. With cap space and contract details as important to fans as they are now - alot of fans are much more critical of what players are going to be making when they are losing their production. There have only been 13 total seasons in the history of the NBA where a guard over 32 has avgd 20 points in a season - and 4 of those belong to Jordan.

Its why Luol Deng - a decent player - is absolutely vilified. No way he will be close to worth the 16million he will make in the last year of his deal.

That's because swingmen, more than any other position, tend to rely on their athleticism for their game. JJ does not. In fact, he is among the least athletic 2 guards in the league. His game is based on his shooting ability, great balance, and outstanding upper body strength for a SG/SF (which helps him maintain his balance despite contact on those little in-the-lane floaters). His skills are the type that age gracefully. Mrhonline was pushing the "JJ-is-like-Stackhouse" line for awhile. It was BS then, and it's BS now.

if the Bulls thought that JJ at 4 years and 60 million was realistic then they shoudl be fired for incompetence.

And the fan who claimed to have inside info to that effect should be banned...

Edited July 13, 2010 by niremetal