Does spending the MLE make us a championship contender?

[Admin]

I'd like to know what you guys think about that because to me that's what the ASG have to be considering. If I answer that question for them the answer is probably no and I've got a good feeling that's the answer that they get as well and they might figure that if we can't make the team a championship contender then they shouldn't go out and spend that extra money to bump them up to and over the luxury tax if they spend the whole MLE. I know that nobody wants to hear that the ownership has to make a consideration like that but the reality of the situation is that the economy sucks and even with a 53 win team our attendance sucked so they've got to look at the situation and consider whether spending that extra 5 million is going to change the attendance problem and I'd bet that outside of Shaq there is no way for them to do that and apparently Shaq won't take the MLE so why should they spend it?

[Sothron]

If we can trade for a star like Paul then yes, I'd definitely use the MLE because it would in fact make us a title contender immediately.

[AHF]

If that is the only move management makes, then I doubt it. Once you are over the cap, more quality players under contract give you more assets to go get something done and more depth to absorb roster changes so it could lead to ultimately making us a championship contender if wisely used. The level of player available to us or otherwhere signing a MLE deal, doesn't seem like the player who takes us from the worst 2nd round loss in NBA history to the cusp of the NBA finals.

In a similar light, none of the individual moves that Boston made to take on money put them in a championship mode:

Buying Rajon Rondo

Acquiring KG

Acquiring Allen

Signing select role players like Posey, Rasheed, etc.

In combination, those moves took Boston to two finals appearances (and counting) but you probably needed to make every move involved to get there. Without Rondo, without KG, without Allen, without the quality role players, etc. I seriously doubt Boston makes the jump.

[GameTime]

I'd like to know what you guys think about that because to me that's what the ASG have to be considering. If I answer that question for them the answer is probably no and I've got a good feeling that's the answer that they get as well and they might figure that if we can't make the team a championship contender then they shouldn't go out and spend that extra money to bump them up to and over the luxury tax if they spend the whole MLE.

By all means is that how the ASG feels then they shouldn't of re-signed Joe.

[coachx]

It depends on who we make the MLE offer to. Shaq yes........Miller no.

Plus its hard to know what will happen between now and April. Its not if and injury happens but who and when it happens too. Even the great Michael Jordan tore his knee up and missed a year. Domninque tore his achilles and missed a year. David Robinsons missed a year which allowed them to draft Tim Duncan), Bird had back issues. Injuries reduced plenty of superstar on up coming teams to fall off the contender map (McGrady / Houston, Hardaway / Magic, Ewing & Houston/ Knicks.

The same could happen to a superstar this year.

Back to your point. I would say that the additions of a big center and the expected improvement of our offense should make us very competitive in a series vs. Orlando and serious contenders to make the EAstern Confernece Finals. Once you make it their I would call that a serious contender for the NBA Title.

I think Boston is falling off and I cannot say that Boston will be better then the Atlanta next year. I expect Boston to really struggle getting through the rigorous 82 game season with back to back games all the time.

I think Altanta is still the 3rd best team in the East. With a big like Shaq (playing the proper role off the bench), while not losing any other assetts, could very well make us Eastern Conference Championship contenders. If we get out of the East, at least with Shaq, we have the size to match up with the Lakers. Who has the best chance of staying healthy throught the playoffs between Shaq and Bynum ? Think about it.

[Admin]

If that is the only move management makes, then I doubt it. Once you are over the cap, more quality players under contract give you more assets to go get something done and more depth to absorb roster changes so it could lead to ultimately making us a championship contender if wisely used. The level of player available to us or otherwhere signing a MLE deal, doesn't seem like the player who takes us from the worst 2nd round loss in NBA history to the cusp of the NBA finals.

In a similar light, none of the individual moves that Boston made to take on money put them in a championship mode:

Buying Rajon Rondo

Acquiring KG

Acquiring Allen

Signing select role players like Posey, Rasheed, etc.

In combination, those moves took Boston to two finals appearances (and counting) but you probably needed to make every move involved to get there. Without Rondo, without KG, without Allen, without the quality role players, etc. I seriously doubt Boston makes the jump.

I agree that a combination of moves is what is needed but they also had the benefit of having an ownership with much larger financial resources and fans that actually come out during the regular season to see the Celtics play, regardless of opponent. And that's my point is that its going to cost them heavily to make MLE type of moves for a couple/few years to build up the backend of the team and during that time will the fans start supporting the team by selling out the arena for most games? I highly doubt that they will and that's got to be something that they are considering.

[Admin]

By all means is that how the ASG feels then they shouldn't of re-signed Joe.

If they didn't re-sign Joe the team would have been far worse and the arena would have been even less filled with fans because they would have still only had the MLE and LLE to spend. Seems to make more sense to me to try and keep the 53 win team together and hope that individual improvement and coaching improvement could get them to the next level as opposed to losing the best player and only being able to try and replace him with scrubs.

[DrReality]

I think the only way it makes a big difference is find a key role player that does the little things that need to happen within the new offense. That includes someone who contributes to solid team chemistry, not detracts from it. Chances of that happening are slim but there have been several post about Barnes. He might be that type of player.

[HawkItus]

Here's what I think would be my frame of mind. Why make a move now? You've got time. You have a new coach and system. You still have a 53 win roster with no major subtractions. Maybe we get off to a hot start again? Ride it out and see what we have. With the new defensive protocols maybe Smoove is able to assist Al down low more since we won't have Al guarding PG's 15 feet from the basket? Maybe with the better offensive philosophy the team avoids those lulls and everybody keeps their head in the game. Who knows? But, there is no reason to rush it now. I'd like to see what we have.

[khaos7]

The truth be told (and not too many people want to hear this) but the Hawks are in a tight position. It's easy to say the ASG won't spend the money. However, giving JJ a max deal says otherwise. $120 million is nothing to sniff at.

There are a number of issues that are preventing us from being a true championship contender in my opinion, and spending/not spending the MLE isn't at the core.

1) The lack of season ticket sales/low attendance. It's hard to commit luxury tax dollars when you don't have a strong paying fanbase.

2) Incorrect moves on draft day. Not to beat a dead horse, but you have to pick the write players during draft night. Suppose San Antonio missed out on Tim Duncan? LA didn't trade Vlade for Kobe? Obviously, many will suggest Paul/Deron should have been or Tim/Kobe. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule like Boston. However, they used their draft asset (Al Jefferson) and flipped it in the form of Kevin Garnett. We still have this option at our disposal because of the talent we've stockpiled (Josh Smith, Al Horford, Marvin Williams, possible Jeff Teague and Jordan Crawford)

3) Making wise moves in free agency. We can dispute the JJ max deal all day. But, with the team we put out on the floor last year, we were a 3rd seed. Why risk taking a step backwards? You think Philips is empty now...

That said, the deals Bibby and Marvin received are questionable. Without them, we'd have more cap flexiblity to get bigger named players. Which leads to my final point

4) Attractability Many have argued that while Atlanta is a place stars what to live, they don't want to play here. You never hear the Hawks named as an organization that does what it takes to win. Even if that is not true, if that is the way we're perceived, that's a whammy against us.

So, spending the MLE doesn't promise us anything. I think another poster put it best; it doesn't help unless it is coupled with other moves.

That said, bring Shaq here may help issue #1). He's in decline. However, he's still a spectacle. I don't know if he's worth the possible locker room division he could bring. That said, dollars would follow through jersey sales and increased attendance. The Hawks have problems attracting the non-basketball aficionado like my wife. She knows very few Hawks players. That said, the idea of Shaq coming to the A intrigues her.

Edited July 15, 2010 by khaos7

[Wurider05]

Here's what I think would be my frame of mind. Why make a move now? You've got time. You have a new coach and system. You still have a 53 win roster with no major subtractions. Maybe we get off to a hot start again? Ride it out and see what we have. With the new defensive protocols maybe Smoove is able to assist Al down low more since we won't have Al guarding PG's 15 feet from the basket? Maybe with the better offensive philosophy the team avoids those lulls and everybody keeps their head in the game. Who knows? But, there is no reason to rush it now. I'd like to see what we have.

Most common sense post I have read all summer. All this trading Marvin, Smoove, and Horf is just stupid. We don't know how the new system will affect the players on the team. At our worst I think that we are still a playoff team. Hell look at our possible bench:

Bibby/Teague

Crawford 1

Crawford 2

ZAZA

Evans

Alot of the problems we have with Orlando is mental. They play scared and stupid against them. We played our worst possibly matchup with them. We keep falling into that same trap with them. That goes back to coaching. Dwight isn't as dominant as we make him out to be.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The truth be told (and not too many people want to hear this) but the Hawks are in a tight position. It's easy to say the ASG won't spend the money. However, giving JJ a max deal says otherwise. $120 million is nothing to sniff at.

There are a number of issues that are preventing us from being a true championship contender in my opinion, and spending/not spending the MLE isn't at the core.

1) The lack of season ticket sales/low attendance. It's hard to commit luxury tax dollars when you don't have a strong paying fanbase.

2) Incorrect moves on draft day. Not to beat a dead horse, but you have to pick the write players during draft night. Suppose San Antonio missed out on Tim Duncan? LA didn't trade Vlade for Kobe? Obviously, many will suggest Paul/Deron should have been or Tim/Kobe. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule like Boston. However, they used their draft asset (Al Jefferson) and flipped it in the form of Kevin Garnett. We still have this option at our disposal because of the talent we've stockpiled (Josh Smith, Al Horford, Marvin Williams, possible Jeff Teague and Jordan Crawford)

3) Making wise moves in free agency. We can dispute the JJ max deal all day. But, with the team we put out on the floor last year, we were a 3rd seed. Why risk taking a step backwards? You think Philips is empty now...

That said, the deals Bibby and Marvin received are questionable. Without them, we'd have more cap flexiblity to get bigger named players. Which leads to my final point

4) Attractability Many have argued that while Atlanta is a place stars what to live, they don't want to play here. You never hear the Hawks named as an organization that does what it takes to win. Even if that is not true, if that is the way we're perceived, that's a whammy against us.

So, spending the MLE doesn't promise us anything. I think another poster put it best; it doesn't help unless it is coupled with other moves.

That said, bring Shaq here may help issue #1). He's in decline. However, he's still a spectacle. I don't know if he's worth the possible locker room division he could bring. That said, dollars would follow through jersey sales and increased attendance. The Hawks have problems attracting the non-basketball aficionado like my wife. She knows very few Hawks players. That said, the idea of Shaq coming to the A intrigues her.

And this is the correct answer.

Bringing Shaq to ATL may see attendance increase by 1,000 per game . . . just off of the women who may come to the games simply to see Shaq in a Hawks uniform. The fickle casual fan that you find all throughout ATL, may finally become more interested in the Hawks because the presence of Shaq.

This team, as constructed, isn't built for a title run, because we lack a presence in the middle, both defensively and offensively. If we had at least one, we may be OK. But we lack that presence on both ends of the court. Horford is a good player. And he might be a better PF. But I wouldn't consider him a "presence" in the middle.

- Howard is a presence

- Bynum is a presence

- Kendrick Perkins is a presence

- Shaq is a presence

We don't have that on this team. It's really the ONLY THING we don't have on this team.

Marvin Williams should not be the player preventing Shaq from coming to the ATL. Because if it is, people are just going to hate on that dude even more, if he stays a mediocre player. Eventually, Marvin may be traded anyway. God forbid that we end up trading Marvin in a salary dump for expiring contracts, instead of trading for a player who can play in the rotation.

Fans are scared of Shaq. Why? I don't know.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Alot of the problems we have with Orlando is mental. They play scared and stupid against them. We played our worst possibly matchup with them. We keep falling into that same trap with them. That goes back to coaching. Dwight isn't as dominant as we make him out to be.

So why would anyone believe that everything will change next year, with the same group of "scared" guys? Why not bring in somebody that you KNOW isn't scared of Dwight?

Can coaching cure scaredness?

Dwight isn't as dominant as WE make him out to be? REally?

Howard averaged 21 pts and 16 rebounds against the Hawks. Here's what he did against some other teams

- Dallas: 23 pts - 18 rebs

- Houston: 21.5 pts - 18 rebs

- Indiana: 19 pts - 15 rebs

- Clippers: 23.5 pts - 13 rebs

- Lakers: 19.5 pts - 14 rebs

- New Jersey: 19 pts - 16.7 rebs

- New Orleans: 25.5 pts - 11 rebs

- Sacramento: 24.5 pts - 15.5 rebs

That's pretty dominant if you ask me.

[Nicholasp27]

we're still the #3 seed...we may fall to #4 if chicago has a good year, but it's not like we're gonna miss the playoffs with this team...we aren't going from 53 wins to 37 wins when bringing back the same core...especially when marv/smoove/horford are only 24 and improving

we have tradeable contracts like bibby/crawford/marvin for the deadline if need be, when we can get a better return on our trades than now and after we've figured out where we stand and what our weaknesses are in the new system

[NJHAWK]

Going to war with the same core that got blown out and showed no heart in 8 straight second round playoff games is what ticks me off. There was some optimism after they resigned JJ that he was going to recruit some folks to Atlanta and that the Hawks were willing to go over the luxury tax to improve the team. So far, NOTHING and then M.C. comes out and writes in a nutshell that this offseason will be no different in that we will find vet minimum players to add to the bench. There is still plenty of time for the Hawks to make moves but its doubtful. For better or worse real gm Gearon is in love with this core group of players and no matter how bad they get the stuffin and heart ripped out of them by the real contenders in this league, its the same old song.

[BusBoyIsBack]

The Heat are the only championship contender in the East. But we are a contender for 2nd best team if we land Shaq. It's as simple as that.

[Packfill]

If they didn't re-sign Joe the team would have been far worse and the arena would have been even less filled with fans because they would have still only had the MLE and LLE to spend. Seems to make more sense to me to try and keep the 53 win team together and hope that individual improvement and coaching improvement could get them to the next level as opposed to losing the best player and only being able to try and replace him with scrubs.

If you are an owner or the GM and you believe coaching and individual improvement can get you to the next level, and you are coming off of a 53 win season, then you might as well go for broke now because waiting for a year might not make sense - unless you strongly believe a seasoned Teague is the key to a championship. Otherwise some of your backcourt assets are ageing and you will not likely be in a position to resign Jamal Crawford a year from now.

If you don't think the team as constructed can get to the next level than you need to think about making some major changes.

[Joker]

And this is the correct answer.

Bringing Shaq to ATL may see attendance increase by 1,000 per game . . . just off of the women who may come to the games simply to see Shaq in a Hawks uniform. The fickle casual fan that you find all throughout ATL, may finally become more interested in the Hawks because the presence of Shaq.

This team, as constructed, isn't built for a title run, because we lack a presence in the middle, both defensively and offensively. If we had at least one, we may be OK. But we lack that presence on both ends of the court. Horford is a good player. And he might be a better PF. But I wouldn't consider him a "presence" in the middle.

- Howard is a presence

- Bynum is a presence

- Kendrick Perkins is a presence

- Shaq is a presence

We don't have that on this team. It's really the ONLY THING we don't have on this team.

Marvin Williams should not be the player preventing Shaq from coming to the ATL. Because if it is, people are just going to hate on that dude even more, if he stays a mediocre player. Eventually, Marvin may be traded anyway. God forbid that we end up trading Marvin in a salary dump for expiring contracts, instead of trading for a player who can play in the rotation.

Fans are scared of Shaq. Why? I don't know.

We weren't going to trade Marvin for a trade dump but Bibby/Marvin which was 12+ million and mainly Bibby was who we wanted to off load. If Shaq is going to sign, we have the best offer. It's up to him to sign. A SnT isn't going to happen because the asking price is way too high from Cleveland.

No one is scared of Shaq but he's not worth more than the MLE if even the MLE.

Edited July 15, 2010 by nbasuperstar40

[ATLBob]

If you don't think the team as constructed can get to the next level than you need to think about making some major changes.

Nice point.

We think no.

But what do Otis Gearon and the Knight-lovers think?

We already know they don't listen to Sund, so he gets a pass ...

[Atlantaholic]

The Heat are the only championship contender in the East. But we are a contender for 2nd best team if we land Shaq. It's as simple as that.

Umm.. Orlando?

Boston? Yeah, I know they are old, they also came within 6 points of winning the NBA championship last year so saying they aren't a contender seems a little ridiculous.

Not to mention Chicago is definitely a contender if Derek Rose steps up his game another notch (which is very possible). Milwaukee took us to seven games and they are WAY better with a healthy Bogut, Redd + Maggette.

We'll be fighting for a top four seed all year Don't forget last year we were the healthiest team in the NBA, and Jamal Crawford had by far his best year as a pro. I wouldn't necessarily be counting on BOTH of those variables lining up for us twice in two years. Our bench still sucks massively. We suffer a few injuries and we are gonna struggle to get a good seed.