hawks havent ruled out out shaq yet!

[Diesel]

Get better perimeter defense so Vince Carter, Jameer Nelson, Rashard Lewis, and JJ Reddick don't shoot us out of the gym like they did last year. Instead of overpaying a guy because he has size, Atlanta should be concentrating on getting some perimeter defenders. Perimeter defense was by far Atlanta's weakest area last year, not their interior defense.

Dwight Howard shot 80+% on us last year. He is the reason why the perimeter game was so prosperous. Again KB, you're failing to see the real picture here. Dominant big men open the floor for shooters to look good. Remember DScott & Nick Anderson with Shaq? Do you remember them without Shaq?

I'm not saying that the Orlando team can't shoot, but if you take away the middle and guard them straight up, they become really ordinary. Ask Toronto fans about Turk!

[Diesel]

the MLE or Marvin is too much to give up for a situational player like Shaq.

Just because we're getting Shaq specifically for a better matchup, doesn't mean he's situational. He was a 12 ppg scorer last season. That's more PPG than Al managed? Definitely more than RandMO and all the rest of our BU Cs combined. We have a problem with interior scoring. Our PF is a finesse Pf and our C doesn't have a goto move. Shaq is a brut on the inside. If you consider situational to be that he gives us an inside presence... then you need to reconsider how you define our needs and what he's worth.

The problem is that we're trying to value Shaq based on our budget the the budget limitations we have. Not based on his real value.

That's like going to Best Buy, looking at one of their top TVs and saying. " I only have $56 to spend... Your TV is overpriced." Just because we're leary of the LT doesn't mean that Shaq isn't worth the full MLE or more. I consider him to be better than Brad Miller. I consider him to be as good if not better than Brendan Heywood. Heywood just signed a contract that will pay him 9.1 Million per. What's Shaq's value again?

Edited July 18, 2010 by Diesel

[Dsinner]

Heywood just signed a contract that will pay him 9.1 Million per. What's Shaq's value again?

No one really knows Shaq's value. He's been on a STEEP decline every year now. It depends on how much he's declined this offseason. It seems like everyoff season that drop is more significant than the previous one. Heywood is younger and is actually getting better. I can promise you Shaq isn't better than Heywood or Miller. Sure his ppg may be close but that doesn't matter when you put in half the total mins played, which is what I'm guessing Shaq's will be this year.

[KB21]

Dwight Howard shot 80+% on us last year. He is the reason why the perimeter game was so prosperous. Again KB, you're failing to see the real picture here. Dominant big men open the floor for shooters to look good. Remember DScott & Nick Anderson with Shaq? Do you remember them without Shaq?

I'm not saying that the Orlando team can't shoot, but if you take away the middle and guard them straight up, they become really ordinary. Ask Toronto fans about Turk!

Correction. Atlanta had very poor perimeter defense for the entire season. The Hawks allowed opponents to shoot 41.1% from the 16-23 foot range last season, which was 5th worst in the NBA.

The combination of Jameer Nelson, Rashard Lewis, Vince Carter, and Matt Barnes (a notoriously poor shooter) shot a combined 86 for 161 against the Hawks in the playoffs (53.4%). They also hit 40.3% of their three point shots against the Hawks in the playoffs.

Reacting to Dwight's performance against the Hawks in the playoffs is a knee jerk reaction, because the Hawks actually did a decent job guarding him in the regular season. He shot 55% against the Hawks in the regular season, which is below his 61% FG% for the season. Only Boston, Denver, Indiana, Portland, Miami, and Toronto held him to a lower field goal percentage. It's also a knee jerk reaction because the Hawks came at Dwight with a horrible defensive game plan, and it ignores the fact that the Hawks were letting teams shoot on them from the perimeter all season long.

[Diesel]

No one really knows Shaq's value. He's been on a STEEP decline every year now. It depends on how much he's declined this offseason. It seems like everyoff season that drop is more significant than the previous one. Heywood is younger and is actually getting better. I can promise you Shaq isn't better than Heywood or Miller. Sure his ppg may be close but that doesn't matter when you put in half the total mins played, which is what I'm guessing Shaq's will be this year.

Uhm, Shaq scored more than Miller and Heywood. I would bet that Shaq is much better than Miller.

[Diesel]

Correction. Atlanta had very poor perimeter defense for the entire season. The Hawks allowed opponents to shoot 41.1% from the 16-23 foot range last season, which was 5th worst in the NBA.

The combination of Jameer Nelson, Rashard Lewis, Vince Carter, and Matt Barnes (a notoriously poor shooter) shot a combined 86 for 161 against the Hawks in the playoffs (53.4%). They also hit 40.3% of their three point shots against the Hawks in the playoffs.

Reacting to Dwight's performance against the Hawks in the playoffs is a knee jerk reaction, because the Hawks actually did a decent job guarding him in the regular season. He shot 55% against the Hawks in the regular season, which is below his 61% FG% for the season. Only Boston, Denver, Indiana, Portland, Miami, and Toronto held him to a lower field goal percentage. It's also a knee jerk reaction because the Hawks came at Dwight with a horrible defensive game plan, and it ignores the fact that the Hawks were letting teams shoot on them from the perimeter all season long.

It's not just about shooting.

In the regular season.

Nov 26 = Dwight Howard 22 points, 17 rebs, 64% shooting. Blow out win for the Magic.

Jan 9 = Dwight Howard 12 points, 7 rebs, 50% shooting. Blow out win for the Magic.

Jan 30 = Dwight Howard 31 points, 19 rebs, 62% shooting. Blow out win for the Magic. BTW (18 FTA)

March 24 = Dwight Howard 19 points, 24 rebs, 36% shooting. Hawks win (16 FTA)

So you're saying that because we held Howard in one game to 36% shooting that trying to find ways to stop him and other big Centers in the league is knee Jerk. Look at the freakin rebounds. I haven't seen totals like that since Dennis Rodman was playing. Look at the FTAs? So we go to Hawk a Shaq on him and put all of our bigs in foul trouble... Yeah, that's going to work... The truth is that Orlando never had a problem with us because they knew that they had an ace in the hole on the low post.

[MaceCase]

Miller is overpaid but guess what? There was actually competition for his services so the Rockets had to go all in to get him, same with Haywood. There isn't competition for Shaq's services so we don't have to spend a single dime more than we want to and too many on here are overlooking the most obvious aspect of Shaq's game, he is no roleplayer. Everyone who is praising his numbers are ignoring how he got those numbers. He didn't achieve them in the flow of the offense he did it as a focal point as his usage rate will attest. You don't sign Shaq to be just some guy you sign him to be THE guy, the gameplan has to flow and be built around him which is part of the reason no one wants to sign him. Everyone is talking about this is a no brainer because according to Shaq and only Shaq it would cost us just Marvin when in reality it would cost us either of Al and Smoove too as their games will have to be adapted. Smoove will either have to take a backseat in his usage or Horf will have to continue to remain at a low rate in order for this thing to work because Shaq will spout off his every career accomplishment before Drew even finishes his sentence for him to dial it down.

[Vol4ever]

Miller is overpaid but guess what? There was actually competition for his services so the Rockets had to go all in to get him, same with Haywood. There isn't competition for Shaq's services so we don't have to spend a single dime more than we want to and too many on here are overlooking the most obvious aspect of Shaq's game, he is no roleplayer. Everyone who is praising his numbers are ignoring how he got those numbers. He didn't achieve them in the flow of the offense he did it as a focal point as his usage rate will attest. You don't sign Shaq to be just some guy you sign him to be THE guy, the gameplan has to flow and be built around him which is part of the reason no one wants to sign him. Everyone is talking about this is a no brainer because according to Shaq and only Shaq it would cost us just Marvin when in reality it would cost us either of Al and Smoove too as their games will have to be adapted. Smoove will either have to take a backseat in his usage or Horf will have to continue to remain at a low rate in order for this thing to work because Shaq will spout off his every career accomplishment before Drew even finishes his sentence for him to dial it down.

Craw, we absolutely got embarrassed by the Magic in the second round of the playoffs with the same team we have right now. I have a chance to sign a piece to even the stage. Now if you are happy with doing well in the regular season and getting beat in the playoffs, then we shouldn't make any changes.

[Dsinner]

Craw, we absolutely got embarrassed by the Magic in the second round of the playoffs with the same team we have right now. I have a chance to sign a piece to even the stage. Now if you are happy with doing well in the regular season and getting beat in the playoffs, then we shouldn't make any changes.

I'm pretty sure our game plan has already changed. We may be outmatched in the middle but we were also outcoached in how we dealt with Howard.

Signing Shaq would be a huge gamble. We're hoping he negates Howard in the playoffs. Shaq's a McDouble with cheese and a McTwist of the knee away from becoming obsolete. Forever. The $$$ is not worth the risk IMO. I'd have rather "overpaid" for Miller or Heywood. Both of whom will be around for a few more years and at least the entire next season.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Dsinner

[Vol4ever]

I'm pretty sure our game plan has already changed. We may be outmatched in the middle but we were also outcoached in how we dealt with Howard.

Signing Shaq would be a huge gamble. We're hoping he negates Howard in the playoffs. Shaq's a McDouble with cheese and a McTwist of the knee away from becoming obsolete. Forever. The $$$ is not worth the risk IMO. I'd have rather "overpaid" for Miller or Heywood. Both of whom will be around for a few more years and at least the entire next season.

I disagree that it is a huge gamble. If nothing else and we stand pat, don't make the Shaq move, we will get our asses handed to us again in a playoff series;

The BIG gamble is NOT making a move.

[Admin]

I disagree that it is a huge gamble. If nothing else and we stand pat, don't make the Shaq move, we will get our asses handed to us again in a playoff series;

The BIG gamble is NOT making a move.

I don't think you're seeing how it is a big gamble and that is with team chemistry. People have said that Shaq was a big reason why Mike Brown lost the team in Cleveland last year and that was with a superstar on the team and a coach of the year and we'd be asking him to come off the bench for us and to play for a rookie head coach and for a fraction of the money he's been paid every year since his first big contract. That is a BIG gamble in hoping that he doesn't turn a team with reportedly bad chemistry into a molotov cocktail of problems when he feels that he's used improperly or for some other reason.

Personally I think it is a gamble worth taking because the starstruck fans of Atlanta will come out to see Hawks with Shaq and he's still exceptionally productive offensively on a per minute basis and nobody is going to stop him in the paint but I'm only in favor of it if it doesn't cost us Marvin or any other starter.

[Swatguy]

I don't think you're seeing how it is a big gamble and that is with team chemistry. People have said that Shaq was a big reason why Mike Brown lost the team in Cleveland last year and that was with a superstar on the team and a coach of the year and we'd be asking him to come off the bench for us and to play for a rookie head coach and for a fraction of the money he's been paid every year since his first big contract. That is a BIG gamble in hoping that he doesn't turn a team with reportedly bad chemistry into a molotov cocktail of problems when he feels that he's used improperly or for some other reason.

Personally I think it is a gamble worth taking because the starstruck fans of Atlanta will come out to see Hawks with Shaq and he's still exceptionally productive offensively on a per minute basis and nobody is going to stop him in the paint but I'm only in favor of it if it doesn't cost us Marvin or any other starter.

Chemistry, CHEMISTRY !!! HELLO, we have bad chemistry Now. Al tells the world there was and is a problem (Josh needs a big brother). And Al is telling the world he needs another big (or forget him resigning). People are acting as it is their money, it's ASG's money. Marvin is replacable with smaller dollars.

Shaq>Marvin. There will be Raja Bell's, Matt Barnes and Anthony Morrows every offseason to better Marvin's production. Get under Marvin's contract. By the way, Joe plays the three.

Wake up Board, support the move. We go over and over every off season about Marvin. He is what he is. He will disappoint you if you think he is or will be better. Shaq is the move on several levels. The economic impact is huge, millions more than his salary. And Josh needs a big brother.

[AHF]

As MrH said, deal Mo for nothing and give Shaq $5m a year. (For filling out the roster with min Sal players, note that signing a first year player and a vet is the same for luxury tax purposes even if the salarycsp numbers are different as swathuy and hawksfanatic educated me).

Edited July 19, 2010 by AHF

[thescout5]

I agree get rid of Marvin's contract. You can always find players that don't give you alot especially in the playoffs.Marvin performed his usual disappeaing act again. He is what he is an underachiever and hopefully we don't get stuck with his overinflated contract. You can find players who perform better in the playoffs than Marvin and you may ask what of Marvin's scoring, Well just give those shots to some other players.

Having Marvin and Bibby at inflated prices does hurt us in cap room. It's unfortunate but some players play better in their contract years and go back to being average at best. ASG bit he bullet and resigned them are they smart enough to get rid of them?

[Sothron]

Its ok guys, we don't need Shaq. Sund found our veteran starting caliber center he claimed in the press he was trying to obtain by resigning Fat Man Collins. :line dance:

[Guest]

We don't need this.....

But Shaq, at last report, still wants assurances of a healthy slice of playing time as well as a salary that starts above the $5.8 million mid-level exception, which can be achieved through a sign-and-trade with Cleveland. No team out there, including Atlanta, is known to be willing to pay Shaq more than $2 million for next season.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/18437/latest-buzz-rj-shaq-t-mac-more