Everyone is saying we need a Center! Question?

[thescout5]

On that list you made, Dwight is not a 7 footer. He's 6'10". Joakim Noah also isn't a 7 footer, but he lacks an inch, so it is negligible. Bogut is a seven footer and is one of the few functional seven footers in the game. Jermaine O'neal is not a seven footer. Neither is Anderson Varejao, Nazr Mohammed, or Theo Ratliff.

Of the guys you listed, Andrew Bogut is the only one that could give the Hawks some trouble at center.

Even though Howard is only 6"10 he jumps out of the building and probably has a bigger reach advantage than Al. The only thing you can do is find players who want to put a body on him to slow him down and Al doesn't play that way. The Hawks lack toughness to win the battle on the boards or go inside during playoff games. Boston had 3 players who weren't afraid to put a body on Howard and it did slow him down. Of course having good players really helped Boston.Who do the Hawks have.

Paul Pierce vs Marvin .. hands down Pierce

JJ vs Allen ..in the playoffs Allen.Joe disappears

Rondo vs Bibby or even Teague .. hands down Rondo

Wallace vs Smoove - Wallace now I am not sure Wallace has resigned with Boston or retires so maybe the Hawks win this matchup in the playoffs.

Al vs Perkins etc ....the trio because they get boards and can score. Al doesn't mix it up and it hurts us.

The fact the Hawks haven't done anything again this offseason except resign their own player is another indictment on ASG wanting to win champinships. Also Sund needs to find a way to trade for a center type not just sit on his butt. The Jerry West's of the league don't just hope their squads are better with the same personel they actually go out and find players to ADD to their team to give them an advantage during crucial playoff game. The Hawks management just doesn't get it which is sad since there are some very good fans wanting them to have a chance at a championship.

[KB21]

Even though Howard is only 6"10 he jumps out of the building and probably has a bigger reach advantage than Al. The only thing you can do is find players who want to put a body on him to slow him down and Al doesn't play that way. The Hawks lack toughness to win the battle on the boards or go inside during playoff games. Boston had 3 players who weren't afraid to put a body on Howard and it did slow him down. Of course having good players really helped Boston.Who do the Hawks have.

Paul Pierce vs Marvin .. hands down Pierce

JJ vs Allen ..in the playoffs Allen.Joe disappears

Rondo vs Bibby or even Teague .. hands down Rondo

Wallace vs Smoove - Wallace now I am not sure Wallace has resigned with Boston or retires so maybe the Hawks win this matchup in the playoffs.

Al vs Perkins etc ....the trio because they get boards and can score. Al doesn't mix it up and it hurts us.

The fact the Hawks haven't done anything again this offseason except resign their own player is another indictment on ASG wanting to win champinships. Also Sund needs to find a way to trade for a center type not just sit on his butt. The Jerry West's of the league don't just hope their squads are better with the same personel they actually go out and find players to ADD to their team to give them an advantage during crucial playoff game. The Hawks management just doesn't get it which is sad since there are some very good fans wanting them to have a chance at a championship.

Rasheed Wallace doesn't start for Boston, but even if he did, the combo of Rasheed and Perkins is nowhere near the combo of Josh Smith and Al Horford.

Again, I ask what center are you going to trade for, or better yet. What center are you going to trade for that is better than Al is at center or better than Josh is at power forward? The answer is there aren't any. Al is already a top 5 center in the NBA, and Josh is a top 6 power forward.

[AHF]

We need a reserve center who is a bigger center and can give 20 minutes - not to get rid of Al or Josh at the C or PF positions. If we had an in-his-prime Rasho Nesterovic or Eric Dampier, etc. it would really ease the burden on our frontcourt. I think we are unlikely to get that player unless we draft them but I am hoping Shaq decides to take $3.5M from us even though Brad Miller just got $5M/year (which means I recognize that is highly unlikely).

[thescout5]

Agreed AHF the Hawks need a reserve center not a starting center. Portland as a few centers,Milwaukee etc etc. This is what Sund gets paid to do not sit on his butt. People thought Gasol would never be traded and what did Memphis get basically scraps and the Lakers got themselves an All Star.

Smoove and Horford are good but aren't good enough to take this team to the championship. If we don't find another reserve center that means all the other positions have to be that much better. People give Marvin a loogey because he plays a bit of defense and thats one spot we need big production not the disappearing act Marvin gives. JJ disappears,who know what Teague will do so again if we don't get a reserve big who can play then this team isn't going anywhere but will be bounced out again the 2nd round.

Horford and Smoove can play well vs the rest of the league but when it comes to the playoffs their not physical enough and we lose simple as that. So just bringing back the status quo won't get it done vs elite teams. More reinforcements are needed to have a chance especially with the fire power Miami has plus Orlando and an aging Boston.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I don't think this is the case at all because there are very few teams that have a power forward/center combo that gives Al Horford and Josh Smith trouble. Dwight Howard is a hard match up, but he's a hard match up against anyone. Neither Josh nor Al struggle against Boston's big front line, and they have one of the more functional front lines in basketball.

The team that won the NBA championship is clearly better when they play small ball, because in clutch moments, they have Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom on the floor at center and power forward respectively, not Andrew Bynum, the only one on that team that is a "true center". Pau is a seven footer, but he's not a banger down low. He's clearly a finess player, but his athleticism and length is what gives team's problems, not his size.

Laker fans would tell you different. The reason the series went 7 games, and maybe not 5, was because Bynum wasn't 100%. When Bynum is healthy, that team is damn near unstoppable. Gasol gets free reign out on the court at PF, while playing minutes at center vs the backup center on most occasions, until the 4th quarter. And Pau has a low post game, something that both Horford nor Smith have.

When Bynum is healthy, the Lakers can throw this at teams whenever they want to.

Odom ( 6 - 10 )

Gasol ( 7 - 0 )

Bynum ( 7 - 0 )

When we beat the Lakers by 17, Bynum didn't play. When Bynum played, and Gasol didn't, we lost by 18. And it was the inside scoring of Bynum in that 3rd quarter that blew that game open.

I thought I already pointed this out, but maybe I did it on the AJC blog, and not here. So here it goes.

Al Horford season averages:

14.2 ppg - 9.9 rebs - 55% FG

Which teams did Al underperform against?

CLEVELAND: 10.7 ppg - 8.0 rebs - 43% FG ( going up against SHAQ and Big Z )

DALLAS: 12.7 ppg - 7 rebs - 35% FG ( went 4 - 16 FG vs Brendan Haywood in the 2nd meeting )

LA LAKERS: 8 ppg - 7 rebs - 50% FG ( going up against Bynum and Gasol )

ORLANDO: 8 ppg - 7 rebs - 54% FG ( going up against Howard )

Whom did he excel against?

GOLDEN ST: 26.5 ppg - 13 rebs - 61% FG ( going up agianst Biedrins and Turiaf, who are weak defensively )

INDIANA: 22.3 ppg - 15.7 rebs - 69% FG ( going up against Hibbert, who is awful defensively )

LA CLIPPERS: 23.5 ppg - 8 rebs - 68% FG ( going up against Kaman, who is weak defensively )

NY KNICKS: 20.5 ppg - 13.5 rebs - 56% FG ( going up against David Lee . . who is also out of position playing center )

It's really not rocket science we're talking about here. Al Horford is a potential legitimate All-Star . . if he's allowed to play PF a little bit more. If we want to keep Smoove around, fine. But at least bring in a guy who can effectively man the middle, so that Al can possibly be the focal point of the Hawks offense at PF for a little bit,while JJ gets some rest.

Our 2nd unit, for the most part, was flat out horrible for most of the year. Adding a center like Shaq pretty much solidifies the middle with a player that you know can score down on the low block. A guy who averaged 12 pts and 7 rebounds in just 23 minutes, and shot 57% FG, is still an efficient offensive player. A much more efficient offensive player than most centers in the league.

Like Diesel said . . . you simply lack vision on this. Shaq was NOT the reason why Phoenix and Cleveland didn't advance further than what they did when he was there. Shaq did his job. But Nash got DESTROYED by Tony Parker in the 08 series that the Spurs beat Phoenix. And Mo Williams sold the Cavs out, along with Lebron, in this year's playoffs vs Boston.

Shaq is only sorry, compared to the Hall of Fame version of Shaq. Compared to everybody else, he's pretty good.

And when you see Brad Miller get a 3 year - 15 million deal, it's no wonder why Shaq almost flat out refuses to play for anything less than the MLE.

[tremor]

On that list you made, Dwight is not a 7 footer. He's 6'10". Joakim Noah also isn't a 7 footer, but he lacks an inch, so it is negligible. Bogut is a seven footer and is one of the few functional seven footers in the game. Jermaine O'neal is not a seven footer. Neither is Anderson Varejao, Nazr Mohammed, or Theo Ratliff.

Of the guys you listed, Andrew Bogut is the only one that could give the Hawks some trouble at center.

When we talk about legit/true 7 footers to me 6'11'' guys qualify esp. when they have upside and/or long arms and/or exceptional strength. You could scratch some guys off the list (Ratliff, Mohammad, JO used to have some hoops but not anymore). Dwight is a different animal - although you're right - you can't call him legit 7 footer but it takes one to play against him as equal (Perkins is also 6'10'' but he has very long arms and is strong like a bull). The point is - it's a group of players that have close wingspan that has significant size and often strength advantage over Al (and any of current Hawks).

[Buzzard]

Why do I always get these imaginary +1s?

He probably does not know that you have to hit the plus 1 button. I did it for him. But I still think a project PF/C or backup guard should have been taken at 31.

[KB21]

Laker fans would tell you different. The reason the series went 7 games, and maybe not 5, was because Bynum wasn't 100%. When Bynum is healthy, that team is damn near unstoppable. Gasol gets free reign out on the court at PF, while playing minutes at center vs the backup center on most occasions, until the 4th quarter. And Pau has a low post game, something that both Horford nor Smith have.

When Bynum is healthy, the Lakers can throw this at teams whenever they want to.

Odom ( 6 - 10 )

Gasol ( 7 - 0 )

Bynum ( 7 - 0 )

When we beat the Lakers by 17, Bynum didn't play. When Bynum played, and Gasol didn't, we lost by 18. And it was the inside scoring of Bynum in that 3rd quarter that blew that game open.

I thought I already pointed this out, but maybe I did it on the AJC blog, and not here. So here it goes.

Al Horford season averages:

14.2 ppg - 9.9 rebs - 55% FG

Which teams did Al underperform against?

CLEVELAND: 10.7 ppg - 8.0 rebs - 43% FG ( going up against SHAQ and Big Z )

DALLAS: 12.7 ppg - 7 rebs - 35% FG ( went 4 - 16 FG vs Brendan Haywood in the 2nd meeting )

LA LAKERS: 8 ppg - 7 rebs - 50% FG ( going up against Bynum and Gasol )

ORLANDO: 8 ppg - 7 rebs - 54% FG ( going up against Howard )

Whom did he excel against?

GOLDEN ST: 26.5 ppg - 13 rebs - 61% FG ( going up agianst Biedrins and Turiaf, who are weak defensively )

INDIANA: 22.3 ppg - 15.7 rebs - 69% FG ( going up against Hibbert, who is awful defensively )

LA CLIPPERS: 23.5 ppg - 8 rebs - 68% FG ( going up against Kaman, who is weak defensively )

NY KNICKS: 20.5 ppg - 13.5 rebs - 56% FG ( going up against David Lee . . who is also out of position playing center )

It's really not rocket science we're talking about here. Al Horford is a potential legitimate All-Star . . if he's allowed to play PF a little bit more. If we want to keep Smoove around, fine. But at least bring in a guy who can effectively man the middle, so that Al can possibly be the focal point of the Hawks offense at PF for a little bit,while JJ gets some rest.

Our 2nd unit, for the most part, was flat out horrible for most of the year. Adding a center like Shaq pretty much solidifies the middle with a player that you know can score down on the low block. A guy who averaged 12 pts and 7 rebounds in just 23 minutes, and shot 57% FG, is still an efficient offensive player. A much more efficient offensive player than most centers in the league.

Like Diesel said . . . you simply lack vision on this. Shaq was NOT the reason why Phoenix and Cleveland didn't advance further than what they did when he was there. Shaq did his job. But Nash got DESTROYED by Tony Parker in the 08 series that the Spurs beat Phoenix. And Mo Williams sold the Cavs out, along with Lebron, in this year's playoffs vs Boston.

Shaq is only sorry, compared to the Hall of Fame version of Shaq. Compared to everybody else, he's pretty good.

And when you see Brad Miller get a 3 year - 15 million deal, it's no wonder why Shaq almost flat out refuses to play for anything less than the MLE.

Shaq is barely better than a replacement level player at this point. His 2.5 WARP shows that, which is a significant decline from where he was one year ago. Zaza Pachulia had a 1.2 WARP last year and a 2.8 WARP the year before, so Shaq would be a very slight upgrade to Zaza, not to mention the chemistry issues having Shaq in the locker room would bring. Look, I would have no issue with bringing Shaq on board if he showed that he is willing to suck up his ego and be the defensive role player his old, broken down body will allow him to be at this point and realize that he is no longer a player that can be a focal point of an offense. Also, I wouldn't sign him for anything above the minimum, just as I wouldn't have signed Brad Miller for anything above the minimum. These players aren't going to elevate the Hawks into championship contention status, therefore is makes no sense to overpay to get them when they are barely better than the Hawks current back up center at this point.

[AHF]

I think the difference between zaza and shaq is bigger. Per your numbers, Shaq was twice as productive last year. My guess is that he was the year before as well. If Zaza is worth $4M, Shaq has to be easily worth more than a minimum salary.

[Joker]

Even though Howard is only 6"10 he jumps out of the building and probably has a bigger reach advantage than Al. The only thing you can do is find players who want to put a body on him to slow him down and Al doesn't play that way. The Hawks lack toughness to win the battle on the boards or go inside during playoff games. Boston had 3 players who weren't afraid to put a body on Howard and it did slow him down. Of course having good players really helped Boston.Who do the Hawks have.

Paul Pierce vs Marvin .. hands down Pierce

JJ vs Allen ..in the playoffs Allen.Joe disappears

Rondo vs Bibby or even Teague .. hands down Rondo

Wallace vs Smoove - Wallace now I am not sure Wallace has resigned with Boston or retires so maybe the Hawks win this matchup in the playoffs.

Al vs Perkins etc ....the trio because they get boards and can score. Al doesn't mix it up and it hurts us.

The fact the Hawks haven't done anything again this offseason except resign their own player is another indictment on ASG wanting to win champinships. Also Sund needs to find a way to trade for a center type not just sit on his butt. The Jerry West's of the league don't just hope their squads are better with the same personel they actually go out and find players to ADD to their team to give them an advantage during crucial playoff game. The Hawks management just doesn't get it which is sad since there are some very good fans wanting them to have a chance at a championship.

Joe shines v. Boston as well as Marvin. I disagree with your statement.

[thescout5]

Joe shines v. Boston as well as Marvin. I disagree with your statement.

Joe and Marvin couldn't even slay Orlando to get a shot at Boston therefore does it matter. True some teams have better matchups than others but also remember the Hawks barely beat Milwaukee.Also consider it would be no guarantee Joe and Marvin would do as well vs Boston in the playoffs since Boston was playing their best ball.