Hawks Reportedly Have Backed Off Trying To Add Shaq

[niremetal]

Mods how long does one poster get to make continued personal attacks before it gets called out? I haven't insulted this guy once and he even admits in this post he is intentionally baiting and insulting me for a reaction. There's nothing to be gained in responding to him except to have even more insults thrown at me because he can't debate things in a civil manner.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. It's not for nothing that both you and I have very high reputation ratings. We both are clearly capable of debating things in a civil manner. You want to try to pin all the blame on me, fine. But if you do, I'll just start pointing out every post where you take a condescending tone with people who disagree with you.

[Nicholasp27]

The Hawks front loaded Speedy's deal to help reach the league minimum payroll. Look at how close his 6.85 salary comes to bringing them up to it. Are you telling me that wasn't intentional? Laughable. They only needed 1.7 left on top of his deal to make sure they reached it.

I think you misread it here.

48.64M payroll – 6.854M Speedy = 41.786M Payroll which is already over the 39.85M floor.

So if his numbers were accurate, then the hawks were already almost 2M over the minimum WITHOUT SPEEDY, thus the speedy move was NOT to get over the minimum, as you claim. They were (over)paying for speedy in hopes that he would be healthy and help the team

the ASG has paid money for players they thought would make a difference in the past...the problem is they are usually wrong (and woody was our coach)

[MaceCase]

IIRC Bibby had a rather sizable trade kicker to be paid upfront in addition to the remaining year and a half of his deal. That and making sure Jamal opted into his final year of his contract at a rather hefty sum to complete his trade doesn't exactly scream cheap to me.

Again, the 2nd rounders or some DLeaguers would have been cheaper than the vet min deals we handed out so without stating the obvious deals we can't really say that the ASG is mostly concerned with their bottom line.

[Sothron]

I think you misread it here.

48.64M payroll – 6.854M Speedy = 41.786M Payroll which is already over the 39.85M floor.

So if his numbers were accurate, then the hawks were already almost 2M over the minimum WITHOUT SPEEDY, thus the speedy move was NOT to get over the minimum, as you claim. They were (over)paying for speedy in hopes that he would be healthy and help the team

the ASG has paid money for players they thought would make a difference in the past...the problem is they are usually wrong (and woody was our coach)

But when did we acquire the other players to go over that? That is the point I'm making. I remember Knight saying they front loaded his deal on purpose to get over the league minimum and if he didn't work it would be easier to trade him in the remaining years because his deal decreased over time instead of increasing which is how contracts usually worked.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. It's not for nothing that both you and I have very high reputation ratings. We both are clearly capable of debating things in a civil manner. You want to try to pin all the blame on me, fine. But if you do, I'll just start pointing out every post where you take a condescending tone with people who disagree with you.

I'm not the one who started out throwing personal insults and even admitted to doing it just to get a reaction. I don't remember taking a "condescending tone" with people. If I was that rude I'm pretty sure my rep wouldn't be as high as it is. I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. If there was a shrug smiley I'd use it here.

[KB21]

IIRC Bibby had a rather sizable trade kicker to be paid upfront in addition to the remaining year and a half of his deal. That and making sure Jamal opted into his final year of his contract at a rather hefty sum to complete his trade doesn't exactly scream cheap to me.

Again, the 2nd rounders or some DLeaguers would have been cheaper than the vet min deals we handed out so without stating the obvious deals we can't really say that the ASG is mostly concerned with their bottom line.

If ASG was concerned about their bottom line and their spending, they would have let Joe Johnson walk. Instead, they gave him a ridiculous contract that does anything but scream cheap to me. Not paying Shaq the MLE or above does not scream cheap to me. It screams being smart.

[Admin]

http://www.storytell...-09salaries.htm

I hadn't heard of this site before but thanks for posting it and I've now added it to the navigation above as it seems like a great resource.

[Sothron]

In reference to Speedy Claxton, some of you are forgetting the order in which things occurred that summer.

On 7/12/2006 Speedy was signed to his ridiculous deal. That brought us above the minimum salary requirement. Why? Well on 8/30/2006 the Hawks signed Lorenzen Wright to his overpriced deal worth $3,250,000 that year and $3,250,000 the next.

http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/06-07salaries.htm

So Speedy's contract did in fact bring us over the minimum salary requirement when it was signed. Soth is recalling the events correctly, but it is debatable as to the purpose of the contract.

I knew that deal brought us over the minimum salary. If anyone can find posts from that far back I remember Knight telling the media they front loaded it on purpose for exactly that reason.

[Buzzard]

My recollection is that the Hawks management said:

(a) we need to sell the #31 pick so we can spend the money on vets

and

(b) we will pay the luxury tax for the right player.

I don't remember them saying them would pay the tax for a "starting quality center" or anything that specific. With the way the luxury tax comment was reported, they created the expectation that they would actually pay the tax but never committed to it as far as I remember. They left themselves wiggle room to say "Shaq wasn't the right player for the MLE" or "Jermaine O'Neal wasn't the right player for $6M" or "$1M/year was too much for Ian Mahinmi."

I think the statement about the #31 pick was a total fiction. The implication was that we were going to sign a real vet - not a 2.7 ppg/1.8 rpg vet or 0.7 ppg/0.6 rpg vet. We haven't.

Bingo! They knew going in that 3 million would not get a significant vet or a player worthy, in their opinion, that would be paid the MLE. Just total BS, as Gearon and the ASG use the three million to help sign Powel, Collins, and whoever else will play for a million a year.

I am starting to agree with Hotlanta on this one.

These guys aren't much better than Belkin. They just tried to play the role of the good honest innocent owners.

None of these jokers is innocent. All we can hope for is that they want to build a contender and are willing to do what it takes.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Buzzard

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I wonder what would've happened if they weren't able to swing the deal to get the extra pick. Remember when the assistant GM came out publically and basically said that ( paraphrasing ) "there isn't much value @ #24 this year"?

It was almost as if they were putting out there that they didn't like anybody at #24 . . . giving them the green light to sell the pick for money.

Think about it. They went from not liking very little at #24, to liking TWO PEOPLE so much, that they traded down to #27 and also got the #31 . . . but decided not to use it because Daniel Orton . . . ( a guy that turned out to be the worst center amongst everybody in summer league ) . . . wasn't there at #31?

And then were savvy enough to SELL a 2nd round pick for 3 million in about 15 minutes?

Really?

I don't believe that story for one minute. I think they were trying to sell the #24 pick all along. And if they didn't get 2 picks in return, they would've sold the #24 and we wouldn't have had a pick in round 1.

That means no Jordan Crawford.

You had Pittman, Varnado, Alabi, Whiteside all still on the board. But you sell the pick because ORTON is gone?

Nah . . I'm not buying that at all.

But I did at first, because the only logical way that the 3 million could be used to upgrade the team, is by using it to cover any luxury tax. If they had no intention of going over the Luxury Tax, selling the pick didn't matter in the first place.

Why even bring up that "you want to add vets to the team", immediately after the fans and ATL media started ripping them for selling the pick, if the money you sold the pick for wasn't going to be used?

When you look at everything as a whole, the perception was that they were going to actively do something to upgrade the team . . . but all of their actions points toward them saving as much money as possible.

The JJ deal was a necessity for the most part. Without JJ, this team loses its go-to player and one of 2 guys ( Jamal being the other ) that can create his own shot. And wit only the MLE to work with, they have no chance to replace his production. Paying JJ 15 - 20 mill less, doesn't change that.

I don't think the ASG are cheap. They're just not willing to take risks to improve the product. They cannot compare themselves to Detroit or San Antonio. Those franchises take risks.

Anytime a franchise trades for one of the biggest head cases on Earth at that time ( Rasheed Wallace ) . . or you see a franchise take a chance on a 1st round talent that's falling through the draft because other teams are afraid of his bad knees ( Dejuan Blair ) . . . those franchises are willing to go that extra mile to improve the team.

Selling what was essentially a late 1st round pick for money . . then signing 2 of the most unproductive players in basketball . . shows that they're not risk takers. They're only worried about the budget.

[Buzzard]

If ASG was concerned about their bottom line and their spending, they would have let Joe Johnson walk. Instead, they gave him a ridiculous contract that does anything but scream cheap to me. Not paying Shaq the MLE or above does not scream cheap to me. It screams being smart.

Yes KB; and signing Collins makes them look like geniuses also :snowballfight:

These guys are incompetent IMHO. A basketball organization needs to be run by basketball execs. Not a bunch of guys who think saving 3 million is more important than making a draft pick. One day they might figure it out and allow Sund or our next experienced GM do his job.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Buzzard

[JJFAN4LF]

Sorry Hawks fans.....I don't want to be the one to deliver the news.

Sherrod Blakely who covers the Celtics said on his Twitter:

SherrodbCSN #Celtics appear to be close to signing Shaquille O'Neal. Will have the story up shortly.

http://twitter.com/SherrodbCSN

:temperature:Temperatures will be high for Hawks fans now. Better start moving faster Mr. Sund.

[lethalweapon3]

Hope he signs anywhere soon, as our self-cannibalization over the Diesel has pretty much reached its end.

~lw3

[MaceCase]

Shaq to Celtics likely done either tonight or tomorrow, source says. Shaq to ATL not totally dead, but Diesel most likely joining Celtics.

http://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard

For those still hoping.

Edited August 3, 2010 by CrawfulToCrawesome

[Sothron]

It sounds like Shaq is going to sign for almost the VET MINIMUM and accept a BACKUP role. So the ASG couldn't be bothered to bring him in under these conditions but they'll sign JASON COLLINS? Oh man.

[MaceCase]

It sounds like Shaq is going to sign for almost the VET MINIMUM and accept a BACKUP role. So the ASG couldn't be bothered to bring him in under these conditions but they'll sign JASON COLLINS? Oh man.

Are you kidding yourself? This is the ASG's fault not the POS Shaq's? The guy pretty much said "oh to play for Boston I'll take the min and a bench role but if Atlanta want me they better pay me 8 mill and start me."

Sorry bucko but Shaq is just another piece of crap ring chaser that has zero interest in Atlanta unless his every need is met. Continue your ASG rant but this no more their fault than Zydrunas resigning in Cleveland last season even though we offered more money.

[thescout5]

Once Shaq signs with the Celtics do we really have to say I told you so? Funny how it always seems we never have enough talent when it counts against superior teams yet we keep signing the same deadwood players like the Jason Collins types who are at best 11 and 12th men on a team.

When we face the Celtics and Shaq posturizes Collins and Horford who is going to look foolish then? We just don't have owners willing to put forth the extra effort to get the job done.Shaq is not the Shaq of old but much better than we have now and if he is motivated still can be a legit force. Why does it always seem the Hawks don't do %$%$it to add to the talent base but the better teams find ways to improve. This is why it's tough being a Hawks fan we can never close the gap vs elite teams. :help wanted3:

Edited August 3, 2010 by thescout5

[Swatguy]

Are you kidding yourself? This is the ASG's fault not the POS Shaq's? The guy pretty much said "oh to play for Boston I'll take the min and a bench role but if Atlanta want me they better pay me 8 mill and start me."

Sorry bucko but Shaq is just another piece of crap ring chaser that has zero interest in Atlanta unless his every need is met. Continue your ASG rant but this no more their fault than Zydrunas resigning in Cleveland last season even though we offered more money.

When a player looking out for his best interest some call the player names. It is a business that exacts a significant toll on guy's bodies. So if Shaq joins the Celtics with their history fresh off a Championship series, coached by Doc Rivers rather than the slow-minded, slow-to-sign, low-to-pay Hawks with no identity coached by Larry Drew you call him a "POS".

Sounds like he is making a good decision. ASG had the chance, but they punted for Jason Collins.

[MaceCase]

When a player looking out for his best interest some call the player names. It is a business that exacts a significant toll on guy's bodies. So if Shaq joins the Celtics with their history fresh off a Championship series, coached by Doc Rivers rather than the slow-minded, slow-to-sign, low-to-pay Hawks with no identity coached by Larry Drew you call him a "POS".

Sounds like he is making a good decision. ASG had the chance, but they punted for Jason Collins.

Right, its the ASG's fault that Shaq wants nearly 10 mil to play in Atlanta but is just fine and dandy taking less than 2 mil to play in Boston. Yea I think I'm standing with my original comment about him. It's the ASG's fault that they weren't willingly gutting their roster and investing their funds at Shaq's behest in a guy who didn't want to be here beyond collecting a paycheck. That's the type of person you want to rest your hopes in and make plenty of concessions for at the expense of our other players just to say you got him.

For Atlanta his camp said:

More than the MLE

Starting spot

Ample playing time.

For Boston:

Vet Min

Bench role

whatever you see fit.

Till this moment we can still offer a mil to 2 mil more, do you think he'd be interested? You think we sign JaCo without exhausting that the POS rather play elsewhere for less than we are offering or are you so deadset in your ignorance that you think Collins was numero uno on our offseason acquisition list? If anything the JaCo signing makes even more sense now seeing as we'd need him to check Shaq after the ASG was already well aware that he spurned us.

[Swatguy]

Right, its the ASG's fault that Shaq wants nearly 10 mil to play in Atlanta but is just fine and dandy taking less than 2 mil to play in Boston. Yea I think I'm standing with my original comment about him. It's the ASG's fault that they weren't willingly gutting their roster and investing their funds at Shaq's behest in a guy who didn't want to be here beyond collecting a paycheck. That's the type of person you want to rest your hopes in and make plenty of concessions for at the expense of our other players just to say you got him.

For Atlanta his camp said:

More than the MLE

Starting spot

Ample playing time.

For Boston:

Vet Min

Bench role

whatever you see fit.

Till this moment we can still offer a mil to 2 mil more, do you think he'd be interested? You think we sign JaCo without exhausting that the POS rather play elsewhere for less than we are offering or are you so deadset in your ignorance that you think Collins was numero uno on our offseason acquisition list? If anything the JaCo signing makes even more sense now seeing as we'd need him to check Shaq after the ASG was already well aware that he spurned us.

"POS"?

You say " Shaq wants nearly 10 mil to play in Atlanta ", but is that true? Probably not. He probably would have signed for 5.

Question, who would you sign for? and why?

[Vol4ever]

The Hawks organization is a complete joke from the head coach to the owners!