Have we been so conditioned?

[Diesel]

OK,

Here's the deal. I think a lot of you believe that this season is Mike Woodson season 7. Fellas (and Ladies) we have a new coach. Every player is talking about how things are different and how they will change. Yet, the fanbase here seems unconvinced. We seem to be measuring the Hawks by the same ruler, with the same hopes.

So here's the Diesel Challenge of the Day.

Jump in and make your bold prediction.

Will the Hawks be better, worse, or the same?

IF we are better, it was Woody.

If we are worse, Woody is not that bad.

If we're the same, it's the players.

[PaceRam]

I actually think the Hawks will be better this season but I don't think it will reflect on their Win/Loss Record. I think other teams in the Eastern Conference are also getting better which will make the competition much stronger this year for the Hawks. I think the Hawks will be more physical this year thanks to some of their roster additions and I also think Coach Drew will bring a refreshing new attitude to the players. I am predicting the Hawks to finish 4th in the Eastern Conference but I think they will play much more competitively against some of the teams including the Magic but I have no idea how they (or, any other NBA Team) will play against the Heat.

[Chickenstanley]

My guess is somewhat worse, although I hope I am wrong. It's what they will do on the defensive end that has me worried. If a defense-first coach (Woody) couldn't get them to buy into defense, one has to wonder about a coach who has done nothing but talk about offense.

Assuming the defense is on par with last season, this proposed "new offense" could be quite helpful in late-game situations---especially on the road. But if the defense isn't there, there's nothing the new offense can do to win road games.

It's all about the road! Teams that don't win on the road (circa 25+ games) rarely advance very far in the playoffs. This season the Hawks play only 41 meaningful games to me. The road games. I believe their record in these 41 games will be a great indicator of how we all feel about the team next June.

CS

[buckeye242424]

OK,

Here's the deal. I think a lot of you believe that this season is Mike Woodson season 7. Fellas (and Ladies) we have a new coach. Every player is talking about how things are different and how they will change. Yet, the fanbase here seems unconvinced. We seem to be measuring the Hawks by the same ruler, with the same hopes.

So here's the Diesel Challenge of the Day.

Jump in and make your bold prediction.

Will the Hawks be better, worse, or the same?

IF we are better, it was Woody.

If we are worse, Woody is not that bad.

If we're the same, it's the players.

47-35. East is much better, well documented. We'll be a playoff team, but I think a 6,7,8 seed.

[Swatguy]

Better.

The change in atmosphere will be for the better. LD will install a system with accountability and camaraderie. Guys wil now both challenge themselves and each other to make the system work. The effective leaders will evolve (Al and Jamal) and LD will push neccessary buttons. LD will be able because management has to support him as so their decision (LD over others) was correct. Guys will understand the trade deadline really has meaning for any number of them. If guys do not stand up and account, they will sit. I believe.

[Joker]

We will be better and we will win more games. The problem is the post-season.

[thecampster]

Here me out.

Cleveland, decidedly worse. Orlando the same. Miami better but different. Washington, better because they're healthy. Chicago better, New Jersey, New York better, Boston a bit worse because of age.

But how much does that affect our win loss total. We were 17-12 against these teams (I think I might be missing a game). That's hardly stellar but there were a number of losses in there we should not have taken. You have to think we could sweep Cleveland this year and just because a few of these teams are better doesn't mean they'll improve their win total against us. Specifically, New York and New jersey both got wins against us.

I'll go out on a limb and say the Hawks finish 56-26 barring major injuries.

[Gray Mule]

It may take a while. New stuff doesn't just happen. Players must learn.

This can mean we won't be as good early in the season but better in the later part of the season.

Defense. The things they learned won't just go away. They still know something about defense.

No doubt there will be some things different and adjustments to be made, but it will be there.

Hawks will lose some easy games that they should win. They will win some tough games that

no one believed they could win. This happens every season and this year will be no different.

One team, with all it's super stars, are expected to go 82-0 and sweep in all their playoff games. :cant believe:

A team with a .500 record, 41-41, should make the 8th seed. 46-36 sounds about right. :conversation:

This year's team, until they meet the 82-0 team in the playoffs, should emerge as winners.

GO HAWKS

:thumbsupsmileyanim:

[Peoriabird]

The Hawks win more games because of better coaching and a better bench.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Peoriabird

[lethalweapon3]

Better team, worse regular-season record.

~lw3

[Dexmethylphenidate]

The Hawks have what it takes to compete with the elite, mainly Orlando's the problem since we have a hard time thinking of a strategy to contain Dwight. Now that Woodson's gone and hopefully LD will utilize the bench more, I can see the Hawks have team that's less frustrating to watch. We'll know better once we see a few games from them.

[macdaddy]

Who knows if we will have a better record but i predict we won't be getting blown out the way we saw sometimes in the past.

As far as the east getting better you have to remember that every year one or two teams just totally fail. Last year the wiz, raptors, 76ers just failed despite a bunch of preseason hype or hope anyway.

That could be the Hawks but i don't think so.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

If this team wins less than 47 games this season ( if our core guys stay healthy ), something has gone terribly wrong with the Hawks.

I'll say 51 wins, if we stay healthy, and 4th in the East.

The only reason this team will fall off, is if they don't totally buy into, or simply can't run Drew's offensive and defensive systems.

We played about as well as we could at home, by winning 34 games. So for the Hawks to post a better record this season, we either need to become the best home team in the league, or start winning more road games.

And to me, that will be the REAL indication that we're a better team . . . winning more road games.

I mean, if we're not winning 50 games, this team is probably still having major problems on the road . . which means that something is amiss somewhere.

People erroneously look at the Celtics, and feel that the Hawks can do what they did. But people forget that the Celtics started the season RED HOT . . before the injuries started. Once they got everybody back healthy, they became a dominant defensive team once again.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I just don't get the logic of . ."we might lose more, but we'll be a better team". I guess the hope is that the Hawks can finish the 2nd half of the season as a team clicking on all cylinders. Problem is, we can't start off too slow. If we do, we're playing @ Orlando, Boston, and Miami in the 1st round, instead of in the 2nd round.

As Bill Parcells once said . . "you are what your record says you are".

A 45 - 48 win Hawks team is in GRAVE DANGER of getting bounced in the 1st round. We'll see how good of a season people thought we had at that point.

[Diesel]

I just don't get the logic of . ."we might lose more, but we'll be a better team". I guess the hope is that the Hawks can finish the 2nd half of the season as a team clicking on all cylinders. Problem is, we can't start off too slow. If we do, we're playing @ Orlando, Boston, and Miami in the 1st round, instead of in the 2nd round.

As Bill Parcells once said . . "you are what your record says you are".

A 45 - 48 win Hawks team is in GRAVE DANGER of getting bounced in the 1st round. We'll see how good of a season people thought we had at that point.

I have to disagree with the great Tuna.

In football, you're what you're record says because they only have 17 games.

Basketball is an 82 game season. The first 41, you can be 10-31. The last 41 you can be 32-9. Overall 42-40, but if a team is coming in 32-9, I don't think of them as being an average team.

[khaos7]

I think we'll be worse for a number of reasons:

1) We're implementing a new offensive and defensive system. I believe we'll have more turnovers (last year we were towards the top of the league on the positive end of the turnover to assist ratio) than we had in years past when we really protected the ball and we ran a ton of isolations. Also, we'll be playing more man to man, which won't allow Al and Josh (and Joe to a degree) to mask some of our glaring weaknesses on defense.

2) While we addressed coaching, we didn't address personel. If you go back to my older posts, you'll know that I'm not a Woody supporter. I thought is was one of the problems with this team. The key word is one. I have a hard time believing Woody was the only reason why this time got blown out and gave up leads in the 4th quarter. I believe that some of the players on this roster should have been held accountable for the last two playoff debacles. Perhaps Drew will get more out of them. Maybe the new systems will make them play harder. I don't know. The only thing I can go by is what I've seen up to this point.

3) The Eastern Conference has improved. Gimme games such as the Wizards (with John Wall) will become increasingly harder. Pesky teams such as Chicago (with Boozer), a healthy Bucks team and the Knicks (who gave us fits with a rag tag bunch last year and have added Ama're ) have gotten better. We all know what happened down in South Beach. And Orlando is still Orlando. And do we really expect to sweep Boston a third year in a row?

Given all three variables, I believe we will still be a playoff team, but I think this roster has tapped out on its potential. One man's opinion.

[Wretch]

I think we'll be worse for a number of reasons:

1) We're implementing a new offensive and defensive system. I believe we'll have more turnovers (last year we were towards the top of the league on the positive end of the turnover to assist ratio) than we had in years past when we really protected the ball and we ran a ton of isolations. Also, we'll be playing more man to man, which won't allow Al and Josh (and Joe to a degree) to mask some of our glaring weaknesses on defense.

2) While we addressed coaching, we didn't address personel. If you go back to my older posts, you'll know that I'm not a Woody supporter. I thought is was one of the problems with this team. The key word is one. I have a hard time believing Woody was the only reason why this time got blown out and gave up leads in the 4th quarter. I believe that some of the players on this roster should have been held accountable for the last two playoff debacles. Perhaps Drew will get more out of them. Maybe the new systems will make them play harder. I don't know. The only thing I can go by is what I've seen up to this point.

3) The Eastern Conference has improved. Gimme games such as the Wizards (with John Wall) will become increasingly harder. Pesky teams such as Chicago (with Boozer), a healthy Bucks team and the Knicks (who gave us fits with a rag tag bunch last year and have added Ama're ) have gotten better. We all know what happened down in South Beach. And Orlando is still Orlando. And do we really expect to sweep Boston a third year in a row?

Given all three variables, I believe we will still be a playoff team, but I think this roster has tapped out on its potential. One man's opinion.

...wow, was about to reply but these are all three of my points. lol If we had axed Woody when BK wanted to (and when I had enough of him as well), I think we'd be better off right now. I don't think record-wise, we'll be the same and definitely not better. However, I think we'll be MUCH more competitive in the big games. MUCH more by the end of the season. In the end, I think that the East has just gotten better and we'll lose a few more games because of it.

[AHF]

I think we'll be worse for a number of reasons:

1) We're implementing a new offensive and defensive system. I believe we'll have more turnovers (last year we were towards the top of the league on the positive end of the turnover to assist ratio) than we had in years past when we really protected the ball and we ran a ton of isolations. Also, we'll be playing more man to man, which won't allow Al and Josh (and Joe to a degree) to mask some of our glaring weaknesses on defense.

2) While we addressed coaching, we didn't address personel. If you go back to my older posts, you'll know that I'm not a Woody supporter. I thought is was one of the problems with this team. The key word is one. I have a hard time believing Woody was the only reason why this time got blown out and gave up leads in the 4th quarter. I believe that some of the players on this roster should have been held accountable for the last two playoff debacles. Perhaps Drew will get more out of them. Maybe the new systems will make them play harder. I don't know. The only thing I can go by is what I've seen up to this point.

3) The Eastern Conference has improved. Gimme games such as the Wizards (with John Wall) will become increasingly harder. Pesky teams such as Chicago (with Boozer), a healthy Bucks team and the Knicks (who gave us fits with a rag tag bunch last year and have added Ama're ) have gotten better. We all know what happened down in South Beach. And Orlando is still Orlando. And do we really expect to sweep Boston a third year in a row?

Given all three variables, I believe we will still be a playoff team, but I think this roster has tapped out on its potential. One man's opinion.

Good post.

My prediction: worse regular season record better playoff performance.

[benhillboy]

I hope I'm terribly wrong, but I expect us to be a considerably lesser team. Yeah, I'm one of the few who actually liked Woody. I think he was a steadying force for us despite numerous reports that he "lost" the guys. What was our longest losing streak last year (Orlando playoff debacle notwithstanding)? Three? I just was much more comfortable with Woody flashing that ring every now and then. That meant something to me. He was a part of that Juggernaunt Pistons staff that trashed The Mighty Lakers + a couple washed up H.O.F.ers, then went on to help improve his squad EVERY SINGLE YEAR!!! Of course, I know the record improvement thing would've likely stopped this season, but now our coach is so unproven, let alone our "best" player who I've well documented my disdain for and who is reasonably expected to have a considerable drop-off by everybody with common sense of age trends and his workload. I'll have to go on recent (like the past 20 years) trends and common sense again in saying that our rookie isn't going to contribute much to speak of.

I guess we have been conditioned. Our team has made strides over the years, but it's only a matter of time before this FRANCHISE has us back on par with the Clippers of the world, and it starts with unholy contracts like the one given to that guy while hanging Craw Dog and Big Al out to dry while the rest of the Conference is busting their butts to improve, or at least shake things up a bit. I hope I'm wrong. I'll be satisfied from the season's start if Josh can develop a remotely servicable jimmy and Marvin finds himself and realizes he has a pretty good contract that he should try to live up to before retirement.

On a side note, yall saw the news on Rumeal Robinson? He's a regular White-Collar career criminal that will be hidden for some time. Damn.

Edited September 9, 2010 by benhillboy

[thecampster]

I hope I'm terribly wrong, but I expect us to be a considerably lesser team. Yeah, I'm one of the few who actually liked Woody. I think he was a steadying force for us despite numerous reports that he "lost" the guys. What was our longest losing streak last year (Orlando playoff debacle notwithstanding)? Three? I just was much more comfortable with Woody flashing that ring every now and then. That meant something to me. He was a part of that Juggernaunt Pistons staff that trashed The Mighty Lakers + a couple washed up H.O.F.ers, then went on to help improve his squad EVERY SINGLE YEAR!!! Of course, I know the record improvement thing would've likely stopped this season, but now our coach is so unproven, let alone our "best" player who I've well documented my disdain for and who is reasonably expected to have a considerable drop-off by everybody with common sense of age trends and his workload. I'll have to go on recent (like the past 20 years) trends and common sense again in saying that our rookie isn't going to contribute much to speak of.

I guess we have been conditioned. Our team has made strides over the years, but it's only a matter of time before this FRANCHISE has us back on par with the Clippers of the world, and it starts with unholy contracts like the one given to that guy while hanging Craw Dog and Big Al out to dry while the rest of the Conference is busting their butts to improve, or at least shake things up a bit. I hope I'm wrong. I'll be satisfied from the season's start if Josh can develop a remotely servicable jimmy and Marvin finds himself and realizes he has a pretty good contract that he should try to live up to before retirement.

On a side note, yall saw the news on Rumeal Robinson? He's a regular White-Collar career criminal that will be hidden for some time. Damn.

If you track the record of improvement, there are 2 things you can point to that have very little to do with the coach. The first, is that every year of the "improvement" we added players that were upgrades over the previous players. Second was the maturation of those players. The best example I can give is the year we added Bibby. We finished the year 15-17 after the Mike Bibby signing and that included losing our last 3 games. Before that we were 22-28 and on pace to miss the playoffs again with a 35-47 record. The Bibby signing left us 37-42 with 3 games left. The next season we came together with Bibby as a point guard.

Here is the statistical improvement and the team transactions to the right.

Year 1 2004-2005 - 13-69 Roster included - Antoine Walker, Al Harrington, Kenny Anderson, Boris diaw, Jason Collier, Josh Childress, Josh Smith, Jon Barry, Kevin Willis, Pedrag Drobnjak, Anthony Miller, Royal Ivey

Year 2 2005-2006 - 26-56 Players added - Marvin Williams, Salim Stoudemire, Joe Johnson, Zaza Pachulia. (that was a 10 game improvement..those 4 players)

Year 3 2006-2007 - 30-52 Players added - Sheldon Williams, Solomon Jones, Lorenzen Wright, Speedy Claxton (ouch). Remember that the Josh's and Marvin, johnson, salim and Diaw are a year older....only worth 4 games. This year is an indictment as player maturity of those 6 players alone should have accounted for something.

Year 4 2007-2008 - 37-45 Players added - Al Horford, Acie Law, Mario West, Mike Bibby. All previous talent matured, added this, 7 game improvement.

Year 5 2008-2009 - 47-35 Players added - Maurice Evans, Flip Murray, Randolph Morris. Josh, Marvin, Al all mature plus a full season with Bibby and this is worth 10 games.

Year 6 2009-2010 - 53-29 Players added - Jamal Crawford, Jeff Teague.

When you look at the steady building of the team, you realize that this team would have improved regardless of who coached it. Many times I perceived Woodson as a hinderance and not a help. Go through the list and only a few impact level players left...Diaw, Harrington and Walker.....Almost the entire team is drafted or traded for in getting rid of garbage.

Edited September 10, 2010 by thecampster