Another Hopeful about Marvin Article.

[AHF]

(1) I agree with those who say we can't hold Marvin to the expectation that he be a star anymore. Complaining about Marvin not living up to his #2 pick or to the success of Chris Paul is now totally wasted energy.

(2) I agree with those who think both that he is limited due to skills as well as due to him not having the "fire" to be a stud. Now, that isn't fatal to being a fine rotation player - modest starter, strong sub - type of player so I think it is time to move beyond wasting time wondering what he could be if only he had different skills or if we could do a brain transplant and put Jordan or Bird's brain in his body.

(3) LD's offense should be a good move for his skill set. He was never well-suited for the iso-offense under Woodson. It is up to him to translate a better system into better results, though.

(4) As for Marvin "stepping up," he improved every season of his career until last year. IMO, two years ago he did materially step his game up on both sides of the ball. Last season, he regressed as a player for the first time in his career. Where he goes from there this season is an important question for his future.

(5) The only useful questions now are the same as with most vets: where would we be without him, what replacements might be available and what would be cost of acquiring them, what is the likelihood that he gets worse or improves over time, and what is his trade value?

(6) At this point in his career, Marven is a good (not great) defensive SF who can rebound and hit some jumpers without giving you much else. We have seen how much that costs in the past and there aren't a ton of veteran SFs who exceed his productivity at a cheaper price. He isn't killing the team but he is no longer a building block either. That is his current state, IMO.

Edited September 29, 2010 by AHF

[niremetal]

(1) I agree with those who say we can't hold Marvin to the expectation that he be a star anymore. Complaining about Marvin not living up to his #2 pick or to the success of Chris Paul is now totally wasted energy.

(2) I agree with those who think both that he is limited due to skills as well as due to him not having the "fire" to be a stud. Now, that isn't fatal to being a fine rotation player - modest starter, strong sub - type of player so I think it is time to move beyond wasting time wondering what he could be if only he had different skills or if we could do a brain transplant and put Jordan or Bird's brain in his body.

(3) LD's offense should be a good move for his skill set. He was never well-suited for the iso-offense under Woodson. It is up to him to translate a better system into better results, though.

(4) As for Marvin "stepping up," he improved every season of his career until last year. IMO, two years ago he did materially step his game up on both sides of the ball. Last season, he regressed as a player for the first time in his career. Where he goes from there this season is an important question for his future.

(5) The only useful questions now are the same as with most vets: where would we be without him, what replacements might be available and what would be cost of acquiring them, what is the likelihood that he gets worse or improves over time, and what is his trade value?

(6) At this point in his career, Marven is a good (not great) defensive SF who can rebound and hit some jumpers without giving you much else. We have seen how much that costs in the past and there aren't a ton of veteran SFs who exceed his productivity at a cheaper price. He isn't killing the team but he is no longer a building block either. That is his current state, IMO.

Wow...a sensible post about Marvin. Is this legal?

[HawksFan87]

It's time for Marvin to put up or shut up, no more excuses for Marvin. IF he doesn't step up this year he needs to be traded . it's as simple as that..

[Swatguy]

((6) At this point in his career, Marven is a good (not great) defensive SF who can rebound and hit some jumpers without giving you much else. We have seen how much that costs in the past and there aren't a ton of veteran SFs who exceed his productivity at a cheaper price. He isn't killing the team but he is no longer a building block either. That is his current state, IMO.

Marvin is a backup. On this roster he is the 3rd best SF at best (behind Joe and Josh). We have missed out on trading him cause of his contract and everyone knows his limits. We should start Joe at the three and Jamal at the 2 (if not 1) to maximize or team. Marvin may actually be a decent backup PF with coaching (and desire). But he does not and never did need to start.

[AHF]

Marvin is a backup. On this roster he is the 3rd best SF at best (behind Joe and Josh). We have missed out on trading him cause of his contract and everyone knows his limits. We should start Joe at the three and Jamal at the 2 (if not 1) to maximize or team. Marvin may actually be a decent backup PF with coaching (and desire). But he does not and never did need to start.

Josh Smith is not a small forward. He is not an impact defender on the perimeter and can't play from the perimeter on offense.

I have no problem starting JJ at the 3 if that sets us for our best lineup (i.e., if Bibby/Crawford or Teague/Crawford doesn't kill us particularly defensively in the backcourt). As I said earlier, he is a modest starter and strong backup at this point in his career. You can definitely do worse but a lot of teams do considerably better.

[DJlaysitup]

The point is that all this excuse making is down right embarrassing and is a slap in the face to the real fans. Yet, every year, the real fans fall into the same sinkhole of thinking that some change will benefit Marvin and he will have a "break out year". The truth is that Marvin doesn't have the innards to be even a good player. He's a pampered basketcase who gets on the floor and shows no passion and doesn't seem to care weather we win or lose. He's a loser.

I certainly agree with you mostly on Marvin D...but I wouldn't go as far as calling him a loser. He may lack fire and innards, but I bet he won't be one of the 70% of NBA vets who end up broke. Pampered - YES - but who pampered him?

I would imagine he feels: "I'll do the best I can within the parameters that I set for myself and they pay me what they think I'm worth".

That said - I sure wish we had a "fire in the belly" SF :kickcan: it's simply too important of a position (on a team like ours) to be average to below average (results-wise).

Edited September 30, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[Diesel]

I certainly agree with you mostly on Marvin D...but I wouldn't go as far as calling him a loser. He may lack fire and innards, but I bet he won't be one of the 70% of NBA vets who end up broke. Pampered - YES - but who pampered him?

I would imagine he feels: "I'll do the best I can within the parameters that I set for myself and they pay me what they think I'm worth".

That said - I sure wish we had a "fire in the belly" SF :kickcan: it's simply too important of a position (on a team like ours) to be average to below average (results-wise).

Let me just state this. On several occassions, I have read reports from the AJC and saw where Marvin made excuses for himself. To me, that's the sign of a loser.

When I read the quote from Marvin that said " I'll do better, but I'm young" I almost threw up and stop watching the Hawks. Players who are winners never make excuses for themselves... so instead of me saying he's a loser, I will say he's not a winner.

[DJlaysitup]

Left this site for a long time. Decided to check in this morning and see what was going on. Looks like not much has changed.

LOL Duff...back when I was a very young man I spent a summer waiting tables at a steak place. We worked late - got up late- turned on "All my Children" and smoked a little something with brunch. Twenty years later I was home from work in the afternoon (sick) and thought "what the hay" ...I'll watch "All my Children". It was like I never left the show! Same actors - same story line. Consistency can be comforting :biggrin: .

[DJlaysitup]

Let me just state this. On several occassions, I have read reports from the AJC and saw where Marvin made excuses for himself. To me, that's the sign of a loser.

When I read the quote from Marvin that said " I'll do better, but I'm young" I almost threw up and stop watching the Hawks. Players who are winners never make excuses for themselves... so instead of me saying he's a loser, I will say he's not a winner.

Yeah...I guess I was looking at it from more of a life approach. If people are willing to buy his act and pay him a bunch of money it's hard to call him a loser.

OTOH, as far as sports goes - a guy like Vince Lombardi would definitely call him a loser.

[Dsinner]

My point is why is he still starting? Why are we not playing our best lineup (Joe at 3, Jamal at 2)? Why are we so quick to believe that changing coaches will change him?

Easy there Tiger. That's our best offensive lineup but I hate to break this to you Marvin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jamal on D. We start that lineup and we get killed on both the defensive side of the ball and rebounding. Not to mention our bench production drops severely. With the players we have Marvin starting at SF IS our best option. If you want to make an argument at least have Smoove starting there over him you would a more believable argument.

That said Marvin is an average NBA SF at best. Not sure why there was ever any hype surrounding him. He's too clumsy and soft to have ever had any founded hope to be something special. His numbers will go up this year but for those who are still garnering hope you will again be disappointed.