Is Smoove Regressing under Drew?

[hawkman]

^^^ +1 for you Chickenstanley. I agree with the fact that the more diverse Smoove's offense is, the more involved he seems to be in all facets of the game. I don't see him as just a spoiled kid out there. I see him as a guy who is trying to expand his game in order to contribute more. Topics can be so polarizing here sometimes. If a player doesn't play the way someone wants him to play, even if he's effective, people trash him and say he's selfish or has low BBIQ. JJ was accused of being selfish even though he's been a VERY willing passer since he's been here. Sometimes, guys are just executing the gameplan their given. When they try to make plays to help the team, I can't fault that. Yeah, I sometimes cringe when I see Smoove winding up for a J, but there was a time when Smoove hit some clutch jumpers and three's as well. I for one would love to see Smoove develop a consistent jumper. That would send his potential through the roof and would make this team's motion offense even more dangerous and unpredictable.

[Chickenstanley]

Yeah, it just doesn't seem like the kids' game is nearly as explosive or dynamic since that Boston series. Coincidently, the year following that series seems to have been the time that his shooting (or rather not shooting) jumpers became a major preocupation with everyone involved.

There just seems to gave been a slowdown or retardation in his progression (real or imagined) to me. And I'm looking for something that may explain it.

Another pivitol point to me, seemed to be when he hurt his ankle two seasons ago. He's never seemed the same since, in my opinion. But this (the ankle injury) closely coincided with the beginning of the "jump-shot hysteria", to the best of my memory ---- so it's hard to draw any conclusions when both are factored in.

Could the ankle injury have caused him to become tentative about doing the things he had previously done or attempted? Might his jumpers have only "seemed" to be a problem because we were not seeing the other dynamic aspects of his game ---- due to tentativeness? I know first-hand that I was never the same mentally after I tore my ankle up badly at age 17. And I went on to play/practice 6 days per week during the 12 years that followed.

It's hard to come to any conclusion unless you can eliminate only one factor at a time. We can't eliminate the ankle injury, so the next best thing may be to allow him free-rein on the jumper ---- and just see how the rest of his game responds.

But before anyone says it, I agree, it could be painful to watch.

CS

[AtLaS]

I remember a few years ago Amare was taking three pointers in the preseason. It's the PRESEASON. Smith showed last year that he's capable of giving up the jumpshot and I'm not going to criticize him until it becomes a problem during the season.

[AHF]

I am not at all a fan of giving Josh free reign on his jumper. He had his best season last year because he reigned the jumper in. I am all about putting Josh in a position to succeed. Having him roam on the perimeter and shoot jumpers is putting him in a position to fail. Josh's effective fg% last year on jumpers was 28.5%. Think of how bad Teague shot last year and recognize that Josh (in his 6th professional season), shot significantly worse. Josh's career high effective fg% on jumpers is something in the range of 35% (also terrible).

Josh should be crashing the boards, taking PFs off the dribble to dish or shoot an interior shot, posting SFs up, etc.

I don't mind him shooting jumpers in the offseason to improve his game - I think that is great.

I don't mind him shooting jumpers in the preseason - that is the time to assess what progress you have made.

Once the season starts, you need to do what is going to help the team. Based on his historical numbers and the progress (or lack thereof) he showed this pre-season, it is clear to me that Josh needs to continue to shoot the jumper in practice and play on the interior once the games start counting. He needs to avoid having a career like Antoine Walker (who was a much better perimeter shooter) where he takes low % shots instead of going with much more efficient and effective field goal selection. Guys like Walker, Baron Davis, etc. turn into cancers when they let their poor shot selection have free reign. They are at their most effective when they take strategic shots and reign in their impulse to fire the long jumper before exhausting better possibilities.

I agree with AtLaS that there is no reason to criticize Josh right now because the games haven't even started. I am excited to see him continue to further the progress he made last year and to see him make his first All-Star team this year. Continuing his improved shot selection is a big part of that.

Edited October 26, 2010 by AHF

[Joker]

Smoove is a vet now but naturally with his BBall IQ deficiencies, it will take some time. He should be okay if he just mainly focuses on defense and rebounding for now.

[Chickenstanley]

You can make the argument that Josh had his best year "statistically" last season. And that is certainly more than I have to go on --- which is basically nothing more than gut feel by watching him play.

But there's just been something missing the last two years, in my opinion, that was present during that Boston series and early the following year (pre-ankle injury). And the "something" feels negative and not positive.

For what it's worth though, my guess is that we won't see a diiferent Smoove (in this respect) once the season starts than we've seen in pre-season. That notion just doesn't make much sense to me, for some reason.

CS

[AHawks89]

ASG never gives coaches time to coach. They always pressure coaches with short time, so they have to change up their game plans. Let's see if Drew can work around that. I think he will.

[hawkman]

You can make the argument that Josh had his best year "statistically" last season. And that is certainly more than I have to go on --- which is basically nothing more than gut feel by watching him play.

But there's just been something missing the last two years, in my opinion, that was present during that Boston series and early the following year (pre-ankle injury). And the "something" feels negative and not positive.

For what it's worth though, my guess is that we won't see a diiferent Smoove (in this respect) once the season starts than we've seen in pre-season. That notion just doesn't make much sense to me, for some reason.

CS

He seemed to be a more complete player back then. That's when he was trying to play similar to AK-47. He wanted to be more versatile out on the court, and I have to admit that I liked that kind of play out of him. I think that him being versatile made him a tough matchup for the traditional Power Forwards in the league. He played more like a...flame suit on... Small Forward on offense and a Power Forward/Center on defense. if I remember correctly, that's when the debates of who was the best all around player on the Hawks roster started. Even though Smoove had what many say was his best year as a Hawk and JJ basically played the same as he has the previous few seasons, you don't hear that question anymore. So something has definitely changed. :question:

[coachx]

ASG never gives coaches time to coach. They always pressure coaches with short time, so they have to change up their game plans. Let's see if Drew can work around that. I think he will.

I assume your being sarcastic. The ASG gave Woody what ? 6 or 7 years.....he was one of the longest tenured coaches in the Eastern Conference.

[DeacKillsaDevil]

Not even a real game played yet and I see this topic. Really?????

[coachx]

Not even a real game played yet and I see this topic. Really?????

Don't forget he has been hard headed for 6 years + 1 preseason.

Did you forget that Magic Series already ? Even Hubie Brown was disgusted with his lack of effort and poor attitude. If your "Captain" acts like that your team is in trouble. Naming him a captain was a tactic to help him grow up. The preseason is a time to work on the new offense.....not the old one. All the other starters seem to have caught on to the new system but Josh.

That is just my observation from the Heat game and the quotes in the AJC. Maybe he changes and pulls a 180. I'm a realist and just don't expect a 6 year veteran to change but I hope I'm proven wrong and on opening night Smoove suddenly stops sitting at the top of the key and finds his way in the paint. Instead of standing around he starts moving without the ball like the offense is designed, and he starts listening to his coach rather then giving him lip and a bad attititude after he makes the same mistakes over and over. If he does these things I will gladly eat a big ole' serving of crowe and enjoy it !

No sugar coating from me on 7 year NBA veterans any more. It iz what it iz !

Edited October 26, 2010 by coachx

[AHF]

Don't forget he has been hard headed for 6 years + 1 preseason.

Did you forget that Magic Series already ? Even Hubie Brown was disgusted with his lack of effort and poor attitude. If your "Captain" acts like that your team is in trouble. Naming him a captain was a tactic to help him grow up. The preseason is a time to work on the new offense.....not the old one. All the other starters seem to have caught on to the new system but Josh.

That is just my observation from the Heat game and the quotes in the AJC. Maybe he changes and pulls a 180. I'm a realist and just don't expect a 6 year veteran to change but I hope I'm proven wrong and on opening night Smoove suddenly stops sitting at the top of the key and finds his way in the paint. Instead of standing around he starts moving without the ball like the offense is designed, and he starts listening to his coach rather then giving him lip and a bad attititude after he makes the same mistakes over and over. If he does these things I will gladly eat a big ole' serving of crowe and enjoy it !

No sugar coating from me on 7 year NBA veterans any more. It iz what it iz !

What Josh "is" is a guy who did make a change to his game last year. He used better shot selection and almost completely eliminated the 3pt shot from his arsenal. That is progress that I want to see continue - not simply the same old, same old.

[DJlaysitup]

What Josh "is" is a guy who did make a change to his game last year. He used better shot selection and almost completely eliminated the 3pt shot from his arsenal. That is progress that I want to see continue - not simply the same old, same old.

I've always been a Smoove fan...he can be a game changer...and often is. He has improved his game yearly and should have been an all-star last year.

That said...I worry about Josh Smith this year.

[coachx]

What Josh "is" is a guy who did make a change to his game last year. He used better shot selection and almost completely eliminated the 3pt shot from his arsenal. That is progress that I want to see continue - not simply the same old, same old.

Agreed.......that is what we all want to see. That and maturity on the court. No more of the crap he pulled in the Orlando series.

[DJlaysitup]

Agreed.......that is what we all want to see. That and maturity on the court. No more of the crap he pulled in the Orlando series.

I think it's obvious to most serious fans (and hopefully to Smoove) that the "making him a Captain" thing is really an attempt to force some maturity on him. I hope it works.

I love watching the guy...probably the most fun to watch since Bird and Magic when he's on a roll. Most of us remember when he couldn't even make a layup.

P.S. - to be fair (and address the title of this thread), Smoove has played a grand total of zero NBA games under new head coach Larry Drew...maybe a little too early to make a solid judgement :tongue:

Edited October 27, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[JackB1]

All you guys that think this is just a "preseason thing" and that Smoove will be different once the actual season starts are completely wrong. I guarantee we will see more of the same once the season starts. I think making him captain may backfire on Drew. It gives Smith more liscence

to do as he chooses. Smoove displays none of the qualities that a captain should.......he is lazy, argumentative, juevenile and just plain dumb. That's not what you want in your captain.

[AtLaS]

All you guys that think this is just a "preseason thing" and that Smoove will be different once the actual season starts are completely wrong. I guarantee we will see more of the same once the season starts.

You do know that Smith eliminated most of that stuff for an entire year last year, right?

Regardless, I think it's a bit early to "guarantee" that he's going to screw up this year. If he starts playing dumb I will be one of the first to criticize him, but I'm at least going to give him a few games first.

[JackB1]

You do know that Smith eliminated most of that stuff for an entire year last year, right?

Regardless, I think it's a bit early to "guarantee" that he's going to screw up this year. If he starts playing dumb I will be one of the first to criticize him, but I'm at least going to give him a few games first.

He didn't "eliminate" anything. He still took 3's now and then and he continued to take long jumpers. "Eliminate" wouild be like what Zaza or Al do. They NEVER take 3's and NEVER take long jumpers unless

the clock is about to expire.

The fact that he is going back to shooting ANY 3's and still taking more jumpers than inside/post shots, is the most troubling thing right now. He should be working on things in preseason that he plans to continue

during the regular season. It makes no sense to play in the preseason completely different from the way you will during the season. But that's Smoove for you! Not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[AtLaS]

He didn't "eliminate" anything. He still took 3's now and then and he continued to take long jumpers. "Eliminate" wouild be like what Zaza or Al do. They NEVER take 3's and NEVER take long jumpers unless

the clock is about to expire.

The fact that he is going back to shooting ANY 3's and still taking more jumpers than inside/post shots, is the most troubling thing right now. He should be working on things in preseason that he plans to continue

during the regular season. It makes no sense to play in the preseason completely different from the way you will during the season. But that's Smoove for you! Not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

Smith shot 7 threes in 81 games last year. I'd hardly call that "now and then". And virtually all of them were at the end of the shot clock or heaves at the end of a quarter. Watching Smith last year, it was very apparent that he improved his game tremendously from a mental standpoint. I think everyone will agree here. Obviously he could still improve even more, but I'm not going to let a few preseason games turn me away from everything he did last year.

Smith also shot over 50% from the field which was his highest ever, and had a career year in rebounding. Give him a few games first, he played very well last year and pretty much everyone agrees he should have been an all-star.

[JackB1]

So much for the preseason/regular season thing....Josh wasted no time in jacking up a 3 and some long jumpers. Problem is, he made it, so that means more are to come.

So far he's playing the same way as he did in preseason. No regards for Drew's wishes for what he should be doing.