The real question is "Who leaves first?"...Smith or Jamal?

[JTB]

Before I start I would like to acknowledge that I would prefer that Hawk Fans listen to me before chad ford as well as other members on this board who spends alot of time researching about the hawks day in and day out. not trying to be cocky BUT believe me when I say hawksquawk is a family and I know for a fact that the members that are usually on this board everyday including myself know more about the hawks than probably many espn analyst. Again not trying to sound stuck up but this sh*t has me pissed cause it makes no sense that we would even consider trading smith at the moment unless its for a huge superstar!

No offense to anybody but this is the dumbest speculation I have heard in a while about trading josh smith. I mean I know many of you have read some of my past post about trading Smith but atleast it was for a star like CP3, Melo or last summer with the hype about trading for amare. But never have I suggested to get rid of smith for a downgrade like kevin love. I mean love is good but his defense is awful but yeah a better offense player but hell we are currently ranked number 5! We have offense. With that being said all the bullsh*t Ford is speaking makes no sense if we would just pause and think this thing through! So lets think for a sec............

Fu** Chad ford's observation on whats going to happen your better off beilieving me and other posters who do nothing but watch ATL's every move...lets look over the off-season:

-we keep JJ giving him a huge contract

-we draft jordan crawford

-no extension given to jamal

now lets look at whats recently going on:

-we sign horford an extension because we def dont want him to hit the open market. to important to the team front court and still very young with great potential.

......Now if we just stop and think for a minute. How many of us know what the ASG is ever really doing?.....0, many didnt think we would get JJ back and hell many didnt think we would sign horford to an extension including me! The one thing we know is that the ASG is cheap, and thats true they are BUT BUT BUT there is one thing about these cheap *ss owners that we should appreciate......and thats this good *ss team we have had over the amount of years since making the playoffs! so cheap yeah but you got to give them they props they have kept a good *ss playoff team togeather. The real question is who leaves between jamal and josh?

Let me remind you that Josh is the all around 24 or so year old and jamal is the 30 or so year old dropping points! personally I say the ASG is all about the future they have kept this young core this long and josh is playing great so far no way they trade him.........................

THEY SIMPLY GET RID OF JAMAL, WELL ACTUALLY THEY LET HIM WALK LIKE THEY LET FLIP WALK!

i dont see how you people dont see this, you might not know what the ASG is ever doing but it makes way more sense to think that the ASG would let Jamal walk before thinking the ASG would trade smith...actually it sounds like a ASG idea. plus the hawks probably have been planning this and thats why jordan crawford is now on this team, only bad thing is that jordan is going to have to get good quicker than expected!

By the way letting jamal walk away keeps the hawks under the lux tax I believe. So chad ford should have said theres no way we get jamal back after this season if we plan on keeping our starting core togeather, whiich is what the ASG main focus is every off season to keep the core group..if that hasnt been obvious about the ASG especially after signing JJ to that huge aass contract I dont know what is!!!!

AN THE WORST THING ABOUT ALL THIS IS THAT THIS *ss HOLE CHAD FORD HAS MADE THIS RUMOR THATS GOING TO LAST ALL THE WAY TILL FEB. TRADE DEADLINE. CAUSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BEILEVE THIS B.S. WITHOUT THINKING!!!

Thoughts?

Edited November 3, 2010 by JTB

[AHawks89]

I wish we could afford everyone. Wish we could keep everyone, I like the team as it is.

Edited November 3, 2010 by AHawks89

[WakaFlocka]

I totally agree that everyone is overreacting to the Josh trade "rumors" (if you can even call them that). To me, the story-line you gave should be pretty evident that we plan to let Jamal walk. You don't give JJ all that money, draft JC2, and then not give Jamal an extension if you plan to keep him... Josh on the other hand, I just can't see him being dealt unless it's bringing a big name in return, and even that I don't see happening. I truly think people are severely overreacting and simply rosterbating after Chad Ford's article, which should be taken with a grain of salt, IMO.

And I love the Horford extension, btw. So happy that he's locked in with us.

[JTB]

I wish we could afford everyone. Wish we could keep everyone, I like the team as it is.

I do to but like chad ford somewhat mentions.....someone will be gone but I know for a fact it wont be a core starting player. especially a young core player...his specualtion is dumb and sekou has a report out even agreeing that ford specualtion is dumb and sekou should def be listened to cause he actaully covers the hawks really well!

[IHeartAtlanta]

Smoove aint going anywhere

[JTB]

I totally agree that everyone is overreacting to the Josh trade "rumors" (if you can even call them that). To me, the story-line you gave should be pretty evident that we plan to let Jamal walk. You don't give JJ all that money, draft JC2, and then not give Jamal an extension if you plan to keep him... Josh on the other hand, I just can't see him being dealt unless it's bringing a big name in return, and even that I don't see happening. I truly think people are severely overreacting and simply rosterbating after Chad Ford's article, which should be taken with a grain of salt, IMO.

And I love the Horford extension, btw. So happy that he's locked in with us.

and of course i completely agree!...i wouldnt be mad if the rumor was for a huge superstar like melo or someone but when i heard that there was rumors about getting kevin love in return it pissed me off that hawk fans would even belleve that we would make that trade before thinking that jamal would just have to walk. but maybe only a few of us is thinking about the future of the team!

[DJlaysitup]

and of course i completely agree!...i wouldnt be mad if the rumor was for a huge superstar like melo or someone but when i heard that there was rumors about getting kevin love in return it pissed me off that hawk fans would even belleve that we would make that trade before thinking that jamal would just have to walk. but maybe only a few of us is thinking about the future of the team!

Yeah - the rumor really got my attention - then I heard it was from Chad...

One thing to remember is that our owners are the ASG (operative letter here being G for group - like a committee). Groups aren't going to do something impulsive. They have to talk things over a bunch. On the negative side - they might miss out on a fast delevoping opportunity. On the positive side - they usually don't do things that are impulsive and dumb.

[thecampster]

Assuming the Hawks take that next step this year and make it to the NBA finals. The real answer is they pay Jamal. They'd then be able to afford the luxury tax to keep the team together.

But Josh Smith is not going anywhere. For the current season, he is 1 rebound a game short of averaging a double double with 3.5 assists, 1 steal and 4.5 blocks a game. From the power forward spot. He's not going anywhere.

[Sothron]

I don't want Smoove traded unless we bring in an elite center, SF or point guard. Kevin Love, and I mean I really do love the guy's game, is not fair value for what Smoove brings. Love is the best rebounder in the NBA, he's a great passer and has a nice outside shot. What he really lacks is a more committed inside game and his low post defense isn't that good. He's improved some from last year from the games I watched so far this year but he's still not good.

My worry if you want to call it that is that not only Chad Ford is saying this but in the thread I created you can see rotoworld which is a very solid source for information said their sources are quietly saying that Kevin Love for Smoove is what is/was being discussed.

I think the most realistic option is we either trade Jamal for size inside or we simply let him play out his contract and then let him go as a free agent and let baby Crawford be the backup shooting guard starting next season.

[JackB1]

Trading Smith for a starting Center would take the HAwks to the next level

[frosgrim]

The "no way the Hawks trade Smith" camp isn't looking at the whole picutre.

The Hawks aren't going to trade Smith for scraps. IF the Hawks do trade Smith it will be for a very good player or package of players to even out the roster.

Until the Hawks get significantly better at PG, this team is stuck where it is. The 4th or 5th best team in the East and a 2nd round exit. A center would be terrific as well, but IMO, PG is really holding this team back.

The current rummor of the Love deal only works if a PG is included. However, we have to acknowledge that adding Love fixes one of the Hawks biggest problems: rebounding.

Second, saying that Love is bad defensively in the post ignores the fact that Josh is not a good post defender. He can get blocks and that is an advantage for the team, but look at what freakin' JJ Hickson did to Smith last night. Expect more of that from the likes of Bosh, Boozer, and Amare. PF's with inside moves give Smith fits because Smith has bad footwork and refuses to box guys out.

I like Smith overall; however, he's not a guy you can say is untouchable. In fact, NO ONE on this team should be considered untouchable. I don't cheer for the Hawks for a player, I support the laundry. Any move that makes this team a true title contender I'm for.

[macdaddy]

There's a reason JJ,Josh, and Al are the captains. Getting rid of one of them means a re-tooling of our team. Look around the league. This doesn't always work even if you bring in good talent. We're rolling with these three for the next couple years. The other faces will change.

[lethalweapon3]

Without any of the following coming in, Smoove (packaged with other Hawks in a deal, of course) doesn't go out:

Dwight

LeBron

Wade

CP3

KD

Melo

Wall

Rose?

Rondo?

Nash?

The exception would be if a "Real (Good and Reasonably Healthy) Center" is dangled with a reasonably high (Top 15) draft pick (again, Smoove being packaged with other Hawks in a deal):

Brook

Nene

Marc G

Bogut?

Kaman?

Yao?

Hibbert?

Noah?

Bynum?

Perk?

Without either of the two scenarios, Jamal is the first one out.

~lw3

[Diesel]

THEY SIMPLY GET RID OF JAMAL, WELL ACTUALLY THEY LET HIM WALK LIKE THEY LET FLIP WALK!

i dont see how you people dont see this, you might not know what the ASG is ever doing but it makes way more sense to think that the ASG would let Jamal walk before thinking the ASG would trade smith...actually it sounds like a ASG idea. plus the hawks probably have been planning this and thats why jordan crawford is now on this team, only bad thing is that jordan is going to have to get good quicker than expected!

By the way letting jamal walk away keeps the hawks under the lux tax I believe. So chad ford should have said theres no way we get jamal back after this season if we plan on keeping our starting core togeather, whiich is what the ASG main focus is every off season to keep the core group..if that hasnt been obvious about the ASG especially after signing JJ to that huge aass contract I dont know what is!!!!

Again, I say that this would be a bad basketball move and a bad business move. Letting Jamal walk sends the message that we're not about winning. I don't think trading Smoove is the answer either. The real answer is moving Marvin. I support a Marvin for Corey Brewer trade. I speculate that Minny would go for it... especially with Marvin's increased production on offense.

The point is that like it or not, we can't keep a mediocre Marvin at about 9 Million and let Crawford walk at the same price. The time for potential is gone. Now it's about winning. What actually helps us to win. People say that ASG shouldn't have paid JJ.. well, that's done. The thing that we can now fix is keeping our 6th man/ 2nd best offensive player on the team here. Like it or not, JJ has moments where he just disappears. IN those moments, in the past, we suffered through. Now, we insert JCraw and he makes the difference. I would trade Marvin for Brewer and offer Craw a 4 year 38.5 Million dollar deal.

To place hope in JCraw2 is not what we should do. If JCraw2 wants to replace JCraw, he has all the chance to do it without us having to remove JCraw. Haven't we learned anything from moving a wealth of players out of Marvin's way so that Marvin can "thrive"? In the end, it became wasted movement and nonmovement. The same is true anytime you try to promote somebody by demoting the superior player.

So if i'm the lone voice, I will be it. I say find a way to keep JCraw but start with Marvin. Marvin for Brewer is good for everybody involved.

I don't want Smoove traded unless we bring in an elite center, SF or point guard. Kevin Love, and I mean I really do love the guy's game, is not fair value for what Smoove brings. Love is the best rebounder in the NBA, he's a great passer and has a nice outside shot. What he really lacks is a more committed inside game and his low post defense isn't that good. He's improved some from last year from the games I watched so far this year but he's still not good.

My worry if you want to call it that is that not only Chad Ford is saying this but in the thread I created you can see rotoworld which is a very solid source for information said their sources are quietly saying that Kevin Love for Smoove is what is/was being discussed.

I think the most realistic option is we either trade Jamal for size inside or we simply let him play out his contract and then let him go as a free agent and let baby Crawford be the backup shooting guard starting next season.

I agree that Love alone won't do it. But if Smoove could get us Love and Flynn, we have to listen.

[Admin]

Again, I say that this would be a bad basketball move and a bad business move. Letting Jamal walk sends the message that we're not about winning. I don't think trading Smoove is the answer either. The real answer is moving Marvin. I support a Marvin for Corey Brewer trade. I speculate that Minny would go for it... especially with Marvin's increased production on offense.

The point is that like it or not, we can't keep a mediocre Marvin at about 9 Million and let Crawford walk at the same price. The time for potential is gone. Now it's about winning. What actually helps us to win. People say that ASG shouldn't have paid JJ.. well, that's done. The thing that we can now fix is keeping our 6th man/ 2nd best offensive player on the team here. Like it or not, JJ has moments where he just disappears. IN those moments, in the past, we suffered through. Now, we insert JCraw and he makes the difference. I would trade Marvin for Brewer and offer Craw a 4 year 38.5 Million dollar deal.

To place hope in JCraw2 is not what we should do. If JCraw2 wants to replace JCraw, he has all the chance to do it without us having to remove JCraw. Haven't we learned anything from moving a wealth of players out of Marvin's way so that Marvin can "thrive"? In the end, it became wasted movement and nonmovement. The same is true anytime you try to promote somebody by demoting the superior player.

So if i'm the lone voice, I will be it. I say find a way to keep JCraw but start with Marvin. Marvin for Brewer is good for everybody involved.

I agree that Love alone won't do it. But if Smoove could get us Love and Flynn, we have to listen.

I'm not against trading Marvin (or Smith for that matter - for a star PG / C) but trading him for Corey Brewer would be an awful mistake. Brewer is a decent rebounder (worse than Marvin) and a good defender (maybe equal to Marvin) but he's one of the most inconsistent shooters in the league and the motion offense requires players (especially on the perimeter) who are threats to score from the outside. Right now Brewer is shooting 27% on FG attempts and 63% on FT attempts and while those are lower than his career numbers what he has shown is that you cannot depend on him to be a consistent threat ... sound like someone we know?? I'd be all for adding Brewer as our backup SF but no way would I trade Marvin for him or make him our starting SF.

To answer the main question of this thread though I'd trade Marvin before I traded Jamal, but I wouldn't trade Marvin for an inferior version of him.

[Sothron]

What would Corey Brewer do for the Hawks that Marvin doesn't do better? I agree that we can upgrade at SF but Brewer isn't the answer.

[JTB]

Again, I say that this would be a bad basketball move and a bad business move. Letting Jamal walk sends the message that we're not about winning. I don't think trading Smoove is the answer either. The real answer is moving Marvin. I support a Marvin for Corey Brewer trade. I speculate that Minny would go for it... especially with Marvin's increased production on offense.

The point is that like it or not, we can't keep a mediocre Marvin at about 9 Million and let Crawford walk at the same price. The time for potential is gone. Now it's about winning. What actually helps us to win. People say that ASG shouldn't have paid JJ.. well, that's done. The thing that we can now fix is keeping our 6th man/ 2nd best offensive player on the team here. Like it or not, JJ has moments where he just disappears. IN those moments, in the past, we suffered through. Now, we insert JCraw and he makes the difference. I would trade Marvin for Brewer and offer Craw a 4 year 38.5 Million dollar deal.

To place hope in JCraw2 is not what we should do. If JCraw2 wants to replace JCraw, he has all the chance to do it without us having to remove JCraw. Haven't we learned anything from moving a wealth of players out of Marvin's way so that Marvin can "thrive"? In the end, it became wasted movement and nonmovement. The same is true anytime you try to promote somebody by demoting the superior player.

So if i'm the lone voice, I will be it. I say find a way to keep JCraw but start with Marvin. Marvin for Brewer is good for everybody involved.

I agree that Love alone won't do it. But if Smoove could get us Love and Flynn, we have to listen.

I agree with all you said. An if we could get Flynn and Love for smoove than we def have to listen! that trade makes way more sense than getting love alone but here's the BIG Q? will the wolves include flynn in that trade?...honestly i say they wouldnt cause for them it dont make any sense.

Now what this does is take me back to my over the summer scenarios of trading josh and jamal to get superstars like melo and jr.smith or for cp3 and okafor. If we gon get rid of some serious good players lets get some serious great players back.

What would Corey Brewer do for the Hawks that Marvin doesn't do better? I agree that we can upgrade at SF but Brewer isn't the answer.

well what deisel scheme is that brewer allows the hawks to keep smith and retain jamal which again makes alot more sense than what chad ford has been saying we have to do though brewer isnt a whole lot better. Desiel idea is probably the best idea as far as keeping the important players on this team togeather after the season and the ASG is all about keeping their core guys! so unless marvin truly shows that he's greatly improved marvin will prob be traded for a potential SF like brewer or maybe a offensive minded or defensive minded SF only.

Edited November 3, 2010 by JTB

[foeteen14]

I agree with all you said. An if we could get Flynn and Love for smoove than we def have to listen! that trade makes way more sense than getting love alone but here's the BIG Q? will the wolves include flynn in that trade?...honestly i say they wouldnt cause for them it dont make any sense.

Now what this does is take me back to my over the summer scenarios of trading josh and jamal to get superstars like melo and jr.smith or for cp3 and okafor. If we gon get rid of some serious good players lets get some serious great players back.

well what deisel scheme is that brewer allows the hawks to keep smith and retain jamal which again makes alot more sense than what chad ford has been saying we have to do though brewer isnt a whole lot better. Desiel idea is probably the best idea as far as keeping the important players on this team togeather after the season and the ASG is all about keeping their core guys! so unless marvin truly shows that he's greatly improved marvin will prob be traded for a potential SF like brewer or maybe a offensive minded or defensive minded SF only.

if teague can show anything (which he did tonight against detroit) and jcraw2 (from now on, i'm just calling him 55) can get some minutes, and it mo can shake his injury, and powell continues to look decent (i know that's a lot of if's) we can afford to trade jamal. maybe at the trade deadline denver gets real nervous about melo leaving and says yeah, we'll take marvin and crawford for melo. only thing is we can't extend melo without trading josh. who says melo would want to extend here anyway. but if even for only half a season; bibby, jj, melo, josh, and al would be fun to watch. then melo comes off the books and we go after hmmm... greg oden and aaron brooks. i know oden is a walking injury, but who knows he might pull a grant hill. (btw i really hate making trade possibilities).