The problem with Marvin

[exodus]

Good points except for Wizards game. Thornton was torching Marvin early in the game and he was replaced with Crawford and JJ was moved to 3.

I think we should adjust line-ups according to match ups. Collins will start against Orlando, maybe Houston if Yao plays, Nets, Lakers with Bynum. He doesn't have anything else to offter but decent D against 7footers, in other cases he's pretty much useless.

The reality is that half of the points Thornton scored were when Marvin was out. I checked the play by play. Scoring a few early buckets is one thing but it isn't accurate to say Thornton dropped his season high on Marvin when Marvin played only 21 minutes and Thornton 42.

[HawkItus]

How can people say Josh can't play the 3 off of 2 games? If he had of blown doors and played great defense you would say the sample size is too small. I think if given time to adjust he could be more than adequate at small forward. The thing is we would guarantee steady production from the position as opposed to Marvin's up and down performance.

[AHawks89]

I wouldn't put Thats why we lost the game into the equation. When Josh was playing the 3 and Horford the 4, what about the 5? You can't say we lost games because Josh couldn't guard quicker SF's. Since Josh was at the 3, and Horford at the 4, that left us at 5 being the weakest position on our team. Josh has been playing fine at the 3. You always have to think that they are not use to playing these positions all the time. Takes time for them to get comfortable.

[exodus]

How can people say Josh can't play the 3 off of 2 games? If he had of blown doors and played great defense you would say the sample size is too small. I think if given time to adjust he could be more than adequate at small forward. The thing is we would guarantee steady production from the position as opposed to Marvin's up and down performance.

Smith started at the 3 during his second season and was the starting 3 at the beginning of his 3rd season as well . We have seen this act before. We already know the ending.

[AHF]

How can people say Josh can't play the 3 off of 2 games? If he had of blown doors and played great defense you would say the sample size is too small. I think if given time to adjust he could be more than adequate at small forward. The thing is we would guarantee steady production from the position as opposed to Marvin's up and down performance.

Sample size is too small. I think most people voicing their objections are basing their views on all the minutes he has played at the SF position over the years as opposed to simply the fact that the only games we lost this year happened to be games when Josh played the SF position.

Personally, I think Josh playing at SF for chunks of time is fine when the matchups are good but is problematic as a full-time SF based on what we have seen over the years.

[HawkItus]

Smith started at the 3 during his second season and was the starting 3 at the beginning of his 3rd season as well . We have seen this act before. We already know the ending.

Totally different player, team, and scheme. Josh is a way more competent player now. This isn't Woody's scheme. He will be playing with better options at almost every position save JJ(and depending on who starts at center). Also, if you look at Smith's second year it compares favorable to Marvin last year. And think Josh was just a second year player at that point.

[AHF]

Totally different player, team, and scheme. Josh is a way more competent player now. This isn't Woody's scheme. He will be playing with better options at almost every position save JJ(and depending on who starts at center). Also, if you look at Smith's second year it compares favorable to Marvin last year. And think Josh was just a second year player at that point.

JJ or Josh can be higher impact players than Marvin at the SF position because they are both much better players than him. The comparison right now is really whether Marvin/Josh/Horford with Mo, Powell and Zaza off the bench looks better or worse for our frontcourt than Josh/Horford/Zaza.with Marvin, Powell and Collins off the bench.

[exodus]

Totally different player, team, and scheme. Josh is a way more competent player now. This isn't Woody's scheme. He will be playing with better options at almost every position save JJ(and depending on who starts at center). Also, if you look at Smith's second year it compares favorable to Marvin last year. And think Josh was just a second year player at that point.

He became a different player when he moved to the 4 full time. At the 3 he lacks quickness, ball handling and shooting.

Smith is not any quicker now than he was in his second year. He isn't going to be able to keep 3s in front of him. He couldn't even stop Hickson off the dribble. His ball handling still is weak and I am not convinced that he suddenly became a decent shooter after watching 6 seasons of bricks.

[Joker]

This thread equal fail by a thousand, I think some of your only care about offense because Smith's perimeter defense is awful.

[Peoriabird]

After getting blown out by the Bucks at home, we can safely say that we are a worse team without Marvin. Can we just hope that the guy gets healthy soon to help us get back on the winning tracK? Crawford/Joe 2/3 line up isn't working in this offense. And yes Diesel, Marvin's defense does make a difference.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Peoriabird

[DJlaysitup]

Here's my take:

When Al moves to PF, he will avg at least +5 pts more than when playing C.

As long as Smith can equal Marvin's production at the 3, then we gain 5 pts per game.

You know Smith will do better at the 3 than Marvin. You can't judge by these past 2

games against 2 of the better teams in the league. Plus, Smoove insists on playing like

a 3 anyway (dribbling and shooting 3's) so why not put him there for real?

Yep JackB1....you hit the nail on the head with that post. The key is having Horford at the PF position. So let's think about that for a minute. With Al at the PF we have to have a center (which we are doing by committee now until we trade Craw for a decent center)...and you have to have a SF. Is Smoove better at SF than Marvin..?? I dunno...but I do know one thing and that is you HAVE to have JS on the floor and you gotta put him somewhere.

Note: This is what's happening right now. Granted Marvin is injured...but that injury is the catalyst to make the move many have wanted all along. (Wally Pip)

Edited November 11, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[dhawk]

Plus 5?

What about Horford at center being vacated? His 15+ points are no longer guaranteed at the center position and if you get the big fat zero points Collins gave the other day, looks more like minus 10 to me, instead of plus 5, we lose.

[jhay610]

Plus 5?

What about Horford at center being vacated? His 15+ points are no longer guaranteed at the center position and if you get the big fat zero points Collins gave the other day, looks more like minus 10 to me, instead of plus 5, we lose.

Plus that number is just somebody's arbitrary assessment. I don't think Al's production goes up 35% (based on last year's stats) just because he matches up with the second-biggest guy on the floor. I think he gets a slight edge there but if his ppg go up that much I'd say it's more attributable to player development rather than a positional change.

[exodus]

Plus that number is just somebody's arbitrary assessment. I don't think Al's production goes up 35% (based on last year's stats) just because he matches up with the second-biggest guy on the floor. I think he gets a slight edge there but if his ppg go up that much I'd say it's more attributable to player development rather than a positional change.

Horford was having a big year before Marvin got hurt. The first game he was in foul trouble and only scored 2 pts. But he scored 20 in the next two games and has scored at least 14 in every game except the first one.

This thread is just a case of a few people seeing what they believe instead of believing what they see. Moving to the 4 is what let Smith become an impact player.

Maggette probably had the easiest 20 he will see all year. He did it in only 8 shot attempts. We got nothing from the center spot until Zaza padded his stats in garbage time. Yet somehow moving Smith to the three helps? How does it help if we get nothing from the center spot? How does it help when 3s can score routinely on Smith?

Moving to the 4 doesn't matter for Horford on offense. If anything scoring is easier against big, slow centers that won't want to leave the paint and contest his jumper. The problem Horford has playing center is on defense, not offense.

[Joker]

Horford was having a big year before Marvin got hurt. The first game he was in foul trouble and only scored 2 pts. But he scored 20 in the next two games and has scored at least 14 in every game except the first one.

This thread is just a case of a few people seeing what they believe instead of believing what they see. Moving to the 4 is what let Smith become an impact player.

Maggette probably had the easiest 20 he will see all year. He did it in only 8 shot attempts. We got nothing from the center spot until Zaza padded his stats in garbage time. Yet somehow moving Smith to the three helps? How does it help if we get nothing from the center spot? How does it help when 3s can score routinely on Smith?

Moving to the 4 doesn't matter for Horford on offense. If anything scoring is easier against big, slow centers that won't want to leave the paint and contest his jumper. The problem Horford has playing center is on defense, not offense.

He's a bully, it's easier for him to score on smaller players. Even his advanced stats say that. But regardless, Smith is useless at SF while he's an All Star at PF. So with Horford being slightly worst at C but Smith being awful at SF, it only makes sense for him to play PF and Horford to play Center.