I had an interesting talk with a AAU coach last night.

[Wurider05]

This guy coaches AAU and is a basketball junkie. We start talking about the Hawks and he gives me his analysis. He stated that the hot start against weak teams covered something that is going to be a big problem going forward and that there aren't enough balls for everyone. He stated that sometimes you have to look outside the stats to see what a player really brings to the table. He used Marvin as an example. He stated that Marvin is a coach's dream because he doesn't complain about shots and he does the things that help the team flow such at spacing the floor, setting picks, perimeter d, etc. He said that he does the coaches tell him to do to a fault almost but when the average fan looks at the stats and sees that he only has 7-8 points then they say he played bad but you can't have 5 starters and a sixth man trying to "get theirs". Someone has to stay out of the offense and not whine. He stated that who will give up their attempts so other players can get their ppg up. NOt JJ, Craw, or Smoove. Horf maybe!

He actually stated that it would be smart to let Smoove come off the bench with Bibby and start Teague/Zaza. or start JJ at SF and Marv at the 4.

Larry Drew

good coach but ASG should have gotten somewhere else due to the fact that the players are comfortable with Drew. Whenever players want a certain coach you know that there is going to be trouble somewhere down the line. Even if the ASG was going cheap they should have gotten someone from outside of the organization because it would have helped the players more.

Teague/Jo. crawford should get more pt together. With the right coaching could be very dangerous.

Smoove is a horrible defensive player and isn't very smart. Been in the league too long to just be getting by on athletic ability. Gets destroyed by smart players.

I am not saying that this guy is John Wooden but its nice to speak with someone who brings a different perspective about our beloved Hawks. He said that basketball if a 5 man game and Miami is proof of this. role is a role regardless of how minimal some may view and that is why players like Stackhouse and Kurt Thomas stay in the league for so long.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Wurider05

[macdaddy]

Had a big long reply and lost it. Some of this i agree with but its interesting to me the overvaluing of Marvin and the undervaluing of Smoove.

Marvin isn't a coaches dream unless you just like players who don't do much. Ty Corbin is a coaches dream. The dude didn't need 'his shots' but he didn't look invisible out there.

Smoove has improved his ball handling, passing, and finally shooting since being in the league. Can you say that about Marvin. To dismiss Smoove as getting by on his atheletic ability just tells me you don't watch this team all that much. The dude is the difference maker and has won games for us by denying "smarter players" like Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, and Dwayne Wade.

[cam1218]

Good points, I agree about "not having enough shots to go around". I don't think it's a huge problem if some of our players can learn to play a more team oriented game. Let the hot hand take the majority of shots and go from there. It seems we will see somebody like Horford going 7/8 early and the ball won't seem to go his way. Our guards will continue to jack up shots and ignore who is playing well. We just need to be more alert and get the ball to who is playing well, not who is paid the most.

Edited November 26, 2010 by cam1218

[AHawks89]

I believe that you talked to AAU coach and heard some of this information, but I think you're putting your opinions in there too, because some of the stuff you just said made absolute no sense.

[gsuteke]

If marvin hits that 3 ball he airballed at the beginning of the washington game with some regularity I'll buy his take.

My take is marvin doesn't complain because he knows he sucks and 8 million a year buys a crapload of spongebob squarepants DVDs.

Hell Marvin is likely the smartest person none of us have never met.

He would have invented Starbucks but coffee causes insomnia.

Marvin will invent the cure for cancer when butt lymphoma becomes an epidemic.

Marvin Williams could have been a great man had he not made such a sweet living scamming a few college scouts and the Atlanta Hawks front office.

Poor us.

[Atlantaholic]

The Josh Smith hate needs to end. Without him we are a lottery team. Hilarious that this "aau coach" singles out Josh Smith for his defense on a team with Bibby, Crawford, Joe Johnson, Zaza Pachulia, Mo Evans etc... who are all playing woeful, and atrocious defense. Regardless of what you may think about his man on man defense the amount of shots blocked / altered and steals he gets already puts him on another stratosphere defensively than 90% of our team, that not only play pathetic man defense but have no other impact whatsoever on the defensive end. Starting Marvin / Teague over Josh Smith is the single most idiotic idea I've come around in quite some time. I'm not sure if this "coach" has seen Teague or Marvin play this year but you'd be hard pressed to find two worse players at their respective positions in the NBA right now. I'm not sure how starting Marvin at the 4 will help/solve any of our problems. I mean, I won't even go into why this is such a ridiculous idea as the myriad of reasons should all be pretty obvious. I'm not sure where the comment about Marvin spacing the floor comes from either since he is shooting a league worst 17% (btw Smith is shooting 40%) from the three point line and has done nothing but miss completely wide open perimeter jumpshot after completely wide open perimeter jump shot this year. I understand you hate Smith and his style of play, but come up with something better than this. The suggestion to bench him when he is just blatantly obvious our second most productive player after Horford and start Marvin freaking Williams over him is just sheer insanity. Problem with Marivn is not that his role is small, is that his production does not match what his role is. His role IS to hit open shots, provide energy, and hit the boards. He does none of these things. NONE.

People criticize Smith for being soft covering people one on one, and a bad rebounder but they forget that he is a pretty damn undersized player at PF. In fact at 6-9 240 pounds he is built more like a SF than a PF.

Case in point: Joe Johnson: 6-7 240 pounds Marvin Williams: 6-9 240 pounds (Same as Smith!... sure doesn't play like it)

For a complete idiot who gets by on sheer athletic ability it's pretty amazing that he manages to out-rebound Mr. coaches' dream by almost double this year, while also being able to average three times as many assists, and like 100 times the amount of Blocks + Steals. Not only does he manage to outplay Marvin in every single "hustle" category by a ridiculous amount but he also shoots a better percentage from almost every single spot on the floor this year. Oh, and as much grief as he gets for his ball handling, Marvin isn't any better at all at that either.

[Plainview1981]

I'm going to disagree and here is why:

This guy coaches AAU and is a basketball junkie. We start talking about the Hawks and he gives me his analysis. He stated that the hot start against weak teams covered something that is going to be a big problem going forward and that there aren't enough balls for everyone. He stated that sometimes you have to look outside the stats to see what a player really brings to the table. He used Marvin as an example. He stated that Marvin is a coach's dream because he doesn't complain about shots and he does the things that help the team flow such at spacing the floor, setting picks, perimeter d, etc. He said that he does the coaches tell him to do to a fault almost but when the average fan looks at the stats and sees that he only has 7-8 points then they say he played bad but you can't have 5 starters and a sixth man trying to "get theirs". Someone has to stay out of the offense and not whine. He stated that who will give up their attempts so other players can get their ppg up. NOt JJ, Craw, or Smoove. Horf maybe!

Marvin is not aggressive on the offensive end, Al is not a ball hog.... Bibby doesn't need a ton of shots. The ones fighting over shots iare JJ and Josh Smith. There is enough ball to go around, but JJ has turned into a volume scorer when he was an efficient scorer in PHX. If JJ got the FT instead of counting on jumpers so much the offense would be a lot better. Crawford was good last year, but he is a low percentage scorer the same as JJ. But I think if you can get JJ to become more efficient, it would solve A LOT of the offensive problems.

Marvin is NOT an effective player. This coach will tell you that Marvin is a coaches dream because Marvin is a push over. Every team does need role players, but Marvin is NOT an effective role player. He is nowhere to be found most games. How does Marvin "space the floor" ? Simply by doing nothing on the offensive end?

We could lighten up on Marvin if he brought toughness and would hit some jumpers. This coach is giving Marvin more credit as a role player than he deserves. Even if we ignore that Marvin was a high draft pick, I would still say that he is mostly ineffective and not worthy of starting. I've seen very few players that inspire me as little as Marvin Williams does.

I don't agree with this coach about Marvin. He is a complete push over that clearly lacks confidence in his own abilities. Those kind of players aren't fitting for the NBA. This guy is thinking as a college/high school coach and doesn't seem to be dealing with the reality of what works and doesn't work in the NBA.

This guy coaches AAU and is a basketball junkie. We start talking about the Hawks and he gives me his analysis. He stated that the hot start against weak teams covered something that is going to be a big problem going forward and that there aren't enough balls for everyone. He stated that sometimes you have to look outside the stats to see what a player really brings to the table. He used Marvin as an example. He stated that Marvin is a coach's dream because he doesn't complain about shots and he does the things that help the team flow such at spacing the floor, setting picks, perimeter d, etc. He said that he does the coaches tell him to do to a fault almost but when the average fan looks at the stats and sees that he only has 7-8 points then they say he played bad but you can't have 5 starters and a sixth man trying to "get theirs". Someone has to stay out of the offense and not whine. He stated that who will give up their attempts so other players can get their ppg up. NOt JJ, Craw, or Smoove. Horf maybe!

He actually stated that it would be smart to let Smoove come off the bench with Bibby and start Teague/Zaza. or start JJ at SF and Marv at the 4.

Larry Drew

good coach but ASG should have gotten somewhere else due to the fact that the players are comfortable with Drew. Whenever players want a certain coach you know that there is going to be trouble somewhere down the line. Even if the ASG was going cheap they should have gotten someone from outside of the organization because it would have helped the players more.

Teague/Jo. crawford should get more pt together. With the right coaching could be very dangerous.

Smoove is a horrible defensive player and isn't very smart. Been in the league too long to just be getting by on athletic ability. Gets destroyed by smart players.

I am not saying that this guy is John Wooden but its nice to speak with someone who brings a different perspective about our beloved Hawks. He said that basketball if a 5 man game and Miami is proof of this. role is a role regardless of how minimal some may view and that is why players like Stackhouse and Kurt Thomas stay in the league for so long.

Edited November 26, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[Wurider05]

Truthfully this is what the guy told me. Its only his opinion. I didn't say that I agree with what he was saying but rather I respect from someone who knows the game. I As for what he said about Marvin I interpret that to mean a player who doesn't complain about his shots etc. I don't think that he meant that Marvin is the greatest thing since slice bread but rather a coach likes a player who will listen and perform.

As for my personal opinion on the Hawks I really don't have one anymore. I am slowly gravitating towards not caring at all. I haven't watched the last three games.

[Crank]

The biggest assumption in basketball today is that if a player gives up his shots that the other players will automatically make there shots .

JJ's and Crawfords shots are down

Smooves shots are the same

Als shots are up .

Our ppg as a team are down .

[buckeye242424]

Truthfully this is what the guy told me. Its only his opinion. I didn't say that I agree with what he was saying but rather I respect from someone who knows the game. I As for what he said about Marvin I interpret that to mean a player who doesn't complain about his shots etc. I don't think that he meant that Marvin is the greatest thing since slice bread but rather a coach likes a player who will listen and perform.

As for my personal opinion on the Hawks I really don't have one anymore. I am slowly gravitating towards not caring at all. I haven't watched the last three games.

Yikes....rider. That's not a good thing. You post enough to care. I can't miss a game.. Speaking of, we have been in HD more than not this year, luv it.

[Diesel]

Here's my take:

1. Marv is not a coaches dream. As a person who has coached some basketball and spent a great deal of time around good coachs on every level, Marvin is the guy that you hope will get it but probably never will. When we drafted Marvin, we did so because he had great upside. Not because he would be a complimentary player. Even as that, he's not that good. Toni Kukoc was "a coach's dream. A complimentary pl*yer who never complained but when called on he delivered. We can't call on Marv.

2. Smoove is not getting by on athleticism. But smoove does have a problem. Smoove's problem is maturity. The right coach could break him out of that... Like sheed and LB. But time has to work her perfect work.

3. Drew is the unknown. Without knowing the full dynamic between Woody and L.D. It hard to know how he was used or how the players saw him. Thus far it seems like a mistake.

[Joker]

Here's my take:

1. Marv is not a coaches dream. As a person who has coached some basketball and spent a great deal of time around good coachs on every level, Marvin is the guy that you hope will get it but probably never will. When we drafted Marvin, we did so because he had great upside. Not because he would be a complimentary player. Even as that, he's not that good. Toni Kukoc was "a coach's dream. A complimentary pl*yer who never complained but when called on he delivered. We can't call on Marv.

2. Smoove is not getting by on athleticism. But smoove does have a problem. Smoove's problem is maturity. The right coach could break him out of that... Like sheed and LB. But time has to work her perfect work.

3. Drew is the unknown. Without knowing the full dynamic between Woody and L.D. It hard to know how he was used or how the players saw him. Thus far it seems like a mistake.

1. This

2. Agree, Smoove was getting by on athleticism when he was younger and that's why I couldn't stand him but now he's legit but has strengths and weaknesses that players of his caliber don't have.

3. This.

Good post D.

[macdaddy]

With all the supposed 'flaws' in our players and roster I don't see how LD seems like a mistake thus far. We've been beaten and looked poor against the top teams in the league so far but that's not anything new. We've rolled over everyone else at home and on the road which is something new. We've done this with Joe and Craw not scoring most nights. This was unheard of last year. So Drew hasn't taken this bunch of supposed misfits and a 10 point a game max player and made them elite in 15 games?? I'm giving him some time to figure out beating the Celtics and Magic. So far I'd say he's doing well.

[Packfill]

This guy coaches AAU and is a basketball junkie. We start talking about the Hawks and he gives me his analysis. He stated that the hot start against weak teams covered something that is going to be a big problem going forward and that there aren't enough balls for everyone. He stated that sometimes you have to look outside the stats to see what a player really brings to the table. He used Marvin as an example. He stated that Marvin is a coach's dream because he doesn't complain about shots and he does the things that help the team flow such at spacing the floor, setting picks, perimeter d, etc. He said that he does the coaches tell him to do to a fault almost but when the average fan looks at the stats and sees that he only has 7-8 points then they say he played bad but you can't have 5 starters and a sixth man trying to "get theirs". Someone has to stay out of the offense and not whine. He stated that who will give up their attempts so other players can get their ppg up. NOt JJ, Craw, or Smoove. Horf maybe!

He actually stated that it would be smart to let Smoove come off the bench with Bibby and start Teague/Zaza. or start JJ at SF and Marv at the 4.

Larry Drew

good coach but ASG should have gotten somewhere else due to the fact that the players are comfortable with Drew. Whenever players want a certain coach you know that there is going to be trouble somewhere down the line. Even if the ASG was going cheap they should have gotten someone from outside of the organization because it would have helped the players more.

Teague/Jo. crawford should get more pt together. With the right coaching could be very dangerous.

Smoove is a horrible defensive player and isn't very smart. Been in the league too long to just be getting by on athletic ability. Gets destroyed by smart players.

I am not saying that this guy is John Wooden but its nice to speak with someone who brings a different perspective about our beloved Hawks. He said that basketball if a 5 man game and Miami is proof of this. role is a role regardless of how minimal some may view and that is why players like Stackhouse and Kurt Thomas stay in the league for so long.

I think most of what he said is same perspective most Hawks fans have:

- Marvin is a complementary player. check.

- Drew was a bad coaching decision and cheap. check.

- Smoove is not a cerebral player. check.

The things that are questionable are:

- Bring Smoove and Bibby off the bench. This I disagree with. Neither Pachulia or Teague have played well enough to suggest the team would be better off with them on the floor at the tip.

- Teague/young Crawford getting more time - this is different, as a t least Teague has not played well enough to deserve more minutes.