Defensive rebounding

[exodus]

The "apples to oranges" part was only in response to your fourth point...in that we may get less D rebounds when Collins (or another big at center) is in the game. The point was, if we are using a Big Lineup - it is in response to a team that has us at a disadvantage due to their size. Therefore, the Big Lineup (often including Collins) will actually get less D rebounds in a game than a Horford/Smoove/Marvin lineup against a poorer rebounding team.

Still...while the Collins/Horford/Smoove starting front line may produce less D rebounds against a team like ORL...that starting lineup lessens the differential that would be there if we simply started the smaller lineup.

It would be worse if we went small against big teams.

LD has said as such. :kickcan:

You avoided the question. Where is the evidence that Collins improves the defensive rebounding? The "it's true because i say so" isn't going to work.

[lethalweapon3]

~lw3

[DJlaysitup]

It is amazing how you can rationalize anything to fit your agenda, ignoring all facts/evidence. You have no evidence that rebounds are easier to get in garbage time...

Obviously rebounds are easier to get in garbage time when the bench players are chucking at will to get a few stats...this also tends to produce long rebounds (off the back iron) and they are fodder for guards to pick up D rebounds.

In the "meat of the game" more rebounds come down in the paint because more shots are taken from closer to the basket.

[DJlaysitup]

You avoided the question. Where is the evidence that Collins improves the defensive rebounding? The "it's true because i say so" isn't going to work.

Do I have to repeat myself?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The point was, if we are using a Big Lineup - it is in response to a team that has us at a disadvantage due to their size. Therefore, the Big Lineup (often including Collins) will actually get less D rebounds in a game than a Horford/Smoove/Marvin lineup against a poorer rebounding team.

Still...while the Collins/Horford/Smoove starting front line may produce less D rebounds against a team like ORL...that starting lineup lessens the differential that would be there if we simply started the smaller lineup.

It would be worse if we went small against big teams. LD has said as such.

[exodus]

Do I have to repeat myself?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The point was, if we are using a Big Lineup - it is in response to a team that has us at a disadvantage due to their size. Therefore, the Big Lineup (often including Collins) will actually get less D rebounds in a game than a Horford/Smoove/Marvin lineup against a poorer rebounding team.

Still...while the Collins/Horford/Smoove starting front line may produce less D rebounds against a team like ORL...that starting lineup lessens the differential that would be there if we simply started the smaller lineup.

It would be worse if we went small against big teams. LD has said as such.

Yet again you are dodging the issue. Where is your evidence that Collins improves the defensive rebounding against big centers? Last i checked Hibbert is a big center yet LD chose to leave him on the bench all game.

And where is this quote from LD you are talking about where he says Collins improves the rebounding? I think that is just a figment of your imagination just like Zaza's fictional starts.

[exodus]

Obviously rebounds are easier to get in garbage time when the bench players are chucking at will to get a few stats...this also tends to produce long rebounds (off the back iron) and they are fodder for guards to pick up D rebounds.

In the "meat of the game" more rebounds come down in the paint because more shots are taken from closer to the basket.

In the "meat of the game" Smith and Horford aren't defending the interior. They don't play in garbage time leaving the lane wide open for the opponents to get easy scores inside. Why would they be chucking long range shots when the Hawks have no interior D?

It is amazing how you can just make stuff up over and over and pretend it is a fact.

[AHF]

LD has said as such. :kickcan:

Quote?

[DJlaysitup]

Quote?

AJC - from Ken's column (the AJC beat writer):

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3) Drew positively raved about Jason Collins, which is the focus of the story for Saturday's paper. I asked Drew if it's possible the big lineup could become the de facto starting five and he said, "I can certainly see it." Basically, the pros and cons with the big lineup are better than pros and cons with the heretofore regular lineup. Change may be a-comin'.

4) Drew acknowledged Williams' previously mentioned less-than-giddy reaction to being dropped out of the starting five. Said Drew, "Anytime a guy goes from a starter and he has to come off the bench, it's just been my experience most guys are not going to be jumpin for joy about it, but Marvin's a professional and I'm sure he sees exactly what it is we're trying to accomplish." Drew also noted that as a bench guy, he has a chance to be the No. 1 or 2 option on the floor with the backups rather than 4 or 5 with the starters.

---------------------------------- c'mon guys...simply admit defeat and pull for the Falcons tonight :tongue:

p.s. - I didn't "bold" Jason Collins in the article - it was bolded by Ken.

Edited January 15, 2011 by DJlaysitup

[exodus]

AJC - from Ken's column (the AJC beat writer):

---------------------------------------------------------------------

3) Drew positively raved about Jason Collins, which is the focus of the story for Saturday’s paper. I asked Drew if it’s possible the big lineup could become the de facto starting five and he said, “I can certainly see it.” Basically, the pros and cons with the big lineup are better than pros and cons with the heretofore regular lineup. Change may be a-comin’.

4) Drew acknowledged Williams’ previously mentioned less-than-giddy reaction to being dropped out of the starting five. Said Drew, “Anytime a guy goes from a starter and he has to come off the bench, it’s just been my experience most guys are not going to be jumpin for joy about it, but Marvin’s a professional and I’m sure he sees exactly what it is we’re trying to accomplish.” Drew also noted that as a bench guy, he has a chance to be the No. 1 or 2 option on the floor with the backups rather than 4 or 5 with the starters.

---------------------------------- c'mon guys...simply admit defeat and pull for the Falcons tonight :tongue:

Please point out where the word rebound appears in that quote. Like i figured it was just a figment of your imagination.

[DJlaysitup]

Please point out where the word rebound appears in that quote. Like i figured it was just a figment of your imagination.

The Hawks rebound 2.9% more defensive rebounds when Collins is in. So even though he may not be a great individual rebounder, its irrefutable that the Hawks are better at defensive rebounds when he is playing.

Granted that's not a really big margin...but as i mentioned to AHF...he is generally in when D rebounds are harder to come-by and his primary job is to block out the other team's center and allow Smoove and AL to sweep the boards.

Satisfied? :kickcan:

http://www.82games.c...ATL14.HTM#onoff

Edited January 15, 2011 by DJlaysitup

[exodus]

The Hawks rebound 2.9% more defensive rebounds when Collins is in. So even though he may not be a great individual rebounder, its irrefutable that the Hawks are better at defensive rebounds when he is playing.

Granted that's not a really big margin...but as i mentioned to AHF...he is generally in when D rebounds are harder to come-by and his primary job is to block out the other team's center and allow Smoove and AL to sweep the boards.

Satisfied? :kickcan:

http://www.82games.c...ATL14.HTM#onoff

Again you didn't answer the question. Where does the word rebound appear in LD's quote?

[lethalweapon3]

~lw3

[AHF]

The Hawks rebound 2.9% more defensive rebounds when Collins is in. So even though he may not be a great individual rebounder, its irrefutable that the Hawks are better at defensive rebounds when he is playing.

Granted that's not a really big margin...but as i mentioned to AHF...he is generally in when D rebounds are harder to come-by and his primary job is to block out the other team's center and allow Smoove and AL to sweep the boards.

Satisfied? :kickcan:

http://www.82games.c...ATL14.HTM#onoff

According to that link, Collins nets us 0.4% better rebounding on the court than when he is off.

That is less than the total 0.5% better rebounding we have when Bibby is on the floor.

By way of reference, Etan Thomas improves our rebounding 3.2% overall and Zaza improves it 1.6% overall. Horford improves it 2.1% overall.

It sure looks like the link you sited indicates that Collins is our worst rebounder among all the centers on our roster.

On LD's quote, I thought there wasn't one talking about rebounding. That seems like confirmation. I am sure LD likes having more size and a solid positional defender but I imagine he is frustrated with Collins' poor rebounding as well.

Edited January 16, 2011 by AHF