For those dogging Marvin for his offense ...

[Admin]

And while his offense was pretty poor last night, where he can make up for that and did make up for it last night was on defense. He absolutely SHUT DOWN Dorrell Wright who had 5 points on 2-7 shooting in 33 minutes. Wright is no Lebron James but he still averages over 16 PPG and lit the Hawks (and Marvin) up for 32 points in our last matchup. Marvin is routinely underrated around here as a defender and I think that last night we got a chance to see what he and the rest of the starters are capable of defensively when they're allowed to stay on their man.

Teague looked tremendous defensively and made a few nice plays on offense and I really hope that he will get consistent minutes from here on out. Hinrich had a few issues with TO's but for the most part he was outstanding and especially so for his 1st game with the team. If that pair can play defense the way that they're capable of we've got a real shot at being one of the better defenses in the league.

Another thing that was night to see last night was going back to our regular lineup, the lineup that forces Horford and Smith into the paint more often where they get much easier buckets and actually get rebounds too. Now I know that they both dominated Golden State earlier this year but even if we're undersized they are both still a lot better players when they're near the rim.

Can't wait to see how we play tomorrow night in Portland! That should be a real test for us.

[JohnnyCASH]

good point..............hes still a duck tho :biggrin:

[niremetal]

And while his offense was pretty poor last night, where he can make up for that and did make up for it last night was on defense. He absolutely SHUT DOWN Dorrell Wright who had 5 points on 2-7 shooting in 33 minutes. Wright is no Lebron James but he still averages over 16 PPG and lit the Hawks (and Marvin) up for 32 points in our last matchup. Marvin is routinely underrated around here as a defender and I think that last night we got a chance to see what he and the rest of the starters are capable of defensively when they're allowed to stay on their man.

I agree that his D was impressive, and that he doesn't get enough credit from his detractors for how consistently solid he is as a defender. But 6 TOs? I mean, that might have been the worst offensive performance I've seen from anyone in our team in a few years. Out of morbid curiosity, I checked to see when the last time Marvin had 5+ TOs was. It was December 19, 2007. But that night, it came along with 26 points and 9 rebounds. Last night, he defended well, but not so out-of-this-world to make me feel better about him being so utterly unable to take care of the ball.

Edited February 26, 2011 by niremetal

[Bawse]

I just hate to see the ball go into Marvins hands, only bad things happen.

[Admin]

I agree that his D was impressive, and that he doesn't get enough credit from his detractors for how consistently solid he is as a defender. But 6 TOs? I mean, that might have been the worst offensive performance I've seen from anyone in our team in a few years. Out of morbid curiosity, I checked to see when the last time Marvin had 5+ TOs was. It was December 19, 2007. But that night, it came along with 26 points and 9 rebounds. Last night, he defended well, but not so out-of-this-world to make me feel better about him being so utterly unable to take care of the ball.

yeah the TO's were pretty bad but we did commit 20 as a team last night so he certainly wasn't alone. Oddly enough Marvin managed to have a negative +/- last night when he usually manages to have a positive number even in losses. No doubt we need a lot better play offensively and in taking care of the ball from Marvin but if he can just fix one of those two and play stellar D then we can win with that.

[benhillboy]

Being an above average defender at his size is the only thing keeping Marvin out of the developmental league.

[Diesel]

And while his offense was pretty poor last night, where he can make up for that and did make up for it last night was on defense. He absolutely SHUT DOWN Dorrell Wright who had 5 points on 2-7 shooting in 33 minutes. Wright is no Lebron James but he still averages over 16 PPG and lit the Hawks (and Marvin) up for 32 points in our last matchup. Marvin is routinely underrated around here as a defender and I think that last night we got a chance to see what he and the rest of the starters are capable of defensively when they're allowed to stay on their man.

Teague looked tremendous defensively and made a few nice plays on offense and I really hope that he will get consistent minutes from here on out. Hinrich had a few issues with TO's but for the most part he was outstanding and especially so for his 1st game with the team. If that pair can play defense the way that they're capable of we've got a real shot at being one of the better defenses in the league.

Another thing that was night to see last night was going back to our regular lineup, the lineup that forces Horford and Smith into the paint more often where they get much easier buckets and actually get rebounds too. Now I know that they both dominated Golden State earlier this year but even if we're undersized they are both still a lot better players when they're near the rim.

Can't wait to see how we play tomorrow night in Portland! That should be a real test for us.

As your resident Marvin hater,

I disagree. Wright played Marvin's game last night. "Sit outside and wait for somebody to pass it to me." That doesn't mean Marvin "deed him up". Dude only took 7 shots. 3 of those were three pointers. While Lee and Ellis took 40 of the teams 89 shots. When we got up on them in the first, there was no way that they were going to put the ball in Wright's hands more than Lee's hand. Marvin wasn't that big of a factor. Especially seeing that Marvin didn't put in on any of the offense that caused them to become one dimensional in the first place.

[sturt]

Pardon my laziness to go dig out the numbers, but if I recall correctly, as the 2007 date would suggest, Marvin's TO rate has historically been among the best in the league regardless of position. Everyone will occasionally regress to the mean... no biggie, as long as we win.

I'm like Dolf... we routinely play well against GS. I don't take last night's game too seriously for that reason alone. I'll pay closer attention Sunday night. Will be great to have an ESPN game for a change, too.

[MaceCase]

The guy has been an absolute mess on offense during this road trip, he seems almost afflicted by a degenerative CNS disease. With that said, the turnovers are beyond uncharacteristic and he has already spent whatever games he's played this season being up and down so I don't see this as a continuing trend for the rest of the season. He just needs a solid quarter or some opposing player to call him out for him to get back in a groove and he'll give us some efficient scoring in addition to his usual defense.

[Guest]

I'm giving Marv a pass for last night's game...he was beyond horrible. Looks like he was caught off-guard with the speed of the game and getting the ball so many times because of Teague and Kirk...lol.

[DJlaysitup]

I'm giving Marv a pass for last night's game...he was beyond horrible. Looks like he was caught off-guard with the speed of the game and getting the ball so many times because of Teague and Kirk...lol.

+1 Jay :kickcan: ....he was caught off guard by the speed of the game.

[AUhawksfan]

I'm giving Marv a pass for last night's game...he was beyond horrible. Looks like he was caught off-guard with the speed of the game and getting the ball so many times because of Teague and Kirk...lol.

Marvin has no excuses, having a good point guard that pushes the ball should make you better not worse. I really hope you're being sarcastic.

[Popeye]

Marvin was bad on D as well......

[DJlaysitup]

Marvin has no excuses, having a good point guard that pushes the ball should make you better not worse. I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Well we are being a bit sacastic. You have to realize that most of us went through the "Worthy with a Jumper" days and had high hopes. Then we went through the "He would only be a Sophomore Days" Followed by the "He would only be a Junior Days"...then the "Marvin would still just be a Senior in college days"

Now we have gotten past the "He would just be working on his Master's" days and accepted that we are in the college professor days...working on a PhD.....slowly

Edited February 26, 2011 by DJlaysitup

[coachx]

And while his offense was pretty poor last night, where he can make up for that and did make up for it last night was on defense. He absolutely SHUT DOWN Dorrell Wright who had 5 points on 2-7 shooting in 33 minutes. Wright is no Lebron James but he still averages over 16 PPG and lit the Hawks (and Marvin) up for 32 points in our last matchup. Marvin is routinely underrated around here as a defender and I think that last night we got a chance to see what he and the rest of the starters are capable of defensively when they're allowed to stay on their man.

Teague looked tremendous defensively and made a few nice plays on offense and I really hope that he will get consistent minutes from here on out. Hinrich had a few issues with TO's but for the most part he was outstanding and especially so for his 1st game with the team. If that pair can play defense the way that they're capable of we've got a real shot at being one of the better defenses in the league.

Totally agree on both Marvin and Teague. Marvins size and versitility on defense is truely exceptional. He has a higher standing reach then Horford or Smoove while being a better perimeter defender. He has the God given tools. His length causes people alot of problems.

Another thing that was night to see last night was going back to our regular lineup, the lineup that forces Horford and Smith into the paint more often where they get much easier buckets and actually get rebounds too. Now I know that they both dominated Golden State earlier this year but even if we're undersized they are both still a lot better players when they're near the rim.

Can't wait to see how we play tomorrow night in Portland! That should be a real test for us.

I loved seeing us on the other end of a blowout.

I just hope the aggression was not simply due to GS being the smaller team. The size of the Lakers ( Bynum, Gasol, Odom) and Suns (Gortat / Loopez) made the Hawks bigs shoot from the perimeter all game.

Edited February 26, 2011 by coachx

[Kimsey]

Marv the duck is averaging 7 a game the past seven, his boy joe is averaging 9.8 points his last 7 games.

[Seano]

Marv the duck is averaging 7 a game the past seven, his boy joe is averaging 9.8 points his last 7 games.

True. And Jamal Crawford is averaging 10.9 points per game over his past 10 games, is shooting just 38% from the field and 30% from 3-point range, whereas in the month of January he was averaging close to 19 ppg and hit on 35% of his 3's. I am so tired of that streaky shooter mentality of his. It makes him completely unreliable, because you never know what you're going to get. When he's good he can be very good, and when, beyond bad. I really wish we'd have traded his expiring contract, and refuse to believe that that didn't have some trade value. That to me would indicate that they probably didn't try too hard (if at all) to trade him, and that just makes me wonder why. Why hang on to him?

Anyway, yeah. We have got multiple players struggling right now, and they're probably not helped by the fact that this might very well be our toughest stretch of the season. But still, you wish that players would step it up in this type of situation, and with so much on the line RE: possible playoff seeding. That's why we're just not there as a team yet, but hopefully Hinrich can help a little bit with that and this team can tighten things up defensively, so that even when the offense is struggling against good teams, your D can still give you a chance and keep you in most games, rather than being on the wrong end of so many fricken blowouts as we've seen this season.

[AHawks89]

Agreed. Seems like everyone bases their opinion on how good a player plays offense, and forgets about defense. Both are equally important, and Marvin brings defense every game, and some times offense.

But one thing, I had to fix this for you:

Wright is no Kobe Bryant but he still averages over 16 PPG and lit the Hawks (and Marvin) up for 32 points in our last matchup.

:snowballfight:

Edited February 27, 2011 by AHawks89

[DarnShadyRefs]

The guy has been an absolute mess on offense during this road trip, he seems almost afflicted by a degenerative CNS disease. With that said, the turnovers are beyond uncharacteristic and he has already spent whatever games he's played this season being up and down so I don't see this as a continuing trend for the rest of the season. He just needs a solid quarter or some opposing player to call him out for him to get back in a groove and he'll give us some efficient scoring in addition to his usual defense.

He needs another fight.

[Guest Walter]

Let me be clear here, Jamal Crawford is the better player, having a greater positive impact relative to Marvin Williams, however, they are inversely similar. They are players that CAN make the team better but who also make the team better as in there still being a (+) +/- when they are NOT on the court.

Having said that, perhaps MW's can change some things that make this not the case. I can no longer think of PO-tential with MW but we at least know that he WAS better than he is.

1) Someone recently posted this, regarding the (lack of a) team identity, but MW might be able to help Hinrich, Horford, and to a lesser extent JS and JJ develop a defensive mentality. MW will never be tough or "blue collar" (just look at his rebound numbers...He may be the worst rebounder relative to length in the league) but his defense is at least average and could fit in with this team "identity".

2) Out of all the Hawk's players, MWs is the 2nd most dependent player on an assist to score! 75% of MW's buckets are the direct or indirect result of someone else's work. He is more dependent than Horford, JS, ZaZa, Powell, all the guards...only the stiff Jason Collins is more dependent on an assist to score. The likelihood that MW will become more assertive and skillful such that he can and will beat his man off the dribble is ridiculously low at this point in his career. He simply doesn't work that hard on his game or have the demeanor for it. However, perhaps a few more drives and assists from the Pg position will be setting up MW to score 2-3 more PPG and make him not so much of an offensive liability.

W